Orange II Retires - Sailing Anarchy Forums

Orange II Retires from Jules Verne Attempt #2

#1 Guest Anarchist J/24 Kid_*

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 03:29 PM

Dailysail is reporting they're retiring (reported on Geronimo's site)

Quote

The catamaran Orange II skippered by Bruno Peyron is on her way back to France having been forced to abandon her Jules Verne Trophy attempt on Day 6. The damage discovered on Tuesday is believed to be too serious to be repaired using the resources available to those on board.

“There was no way we could repair this part of the boat. Even if we had been able to, there’s nothing to say that the same wouldn’t have happened to the second hull. Even then, setting off around the world with 20 to 30% of our performance gone is hardly in the spirit of this challenge and not something we would want to do”, explains Bruno Peyron.

The skipper, deeply disappointed like his crew, finished with these words: “We’re going home with the certain determination to start again, but when that will be, I don’t know”.

Guess that cracked S Drive fairing got the best of them. Repairing it underwater with a band of epoxysoaked glass did seem a bit of a long shot.

Makes ya wonder where the blame will lie? Builder? Designer? Regardless, she's an amazing boat, and hopefully with a bit more testing she'll be attempting some other records.

-Mike

#2 explenture

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 04:16 PM

Has the potential to be an amazing boat....hasn't shown me enough yet.

#3 P_Wop

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 04:30 PM

I've always wondered why the (primarily French) multihull designers and builders continue to mount draggy and damage-prone propshafts and S-drives. At 30 knots plus, the drag on these things is enormous, even with a reasonably efficient folding prop. Why don't they follow plenty of good examples from the modern crop of maxi monohulls such as Bols and do a retracting prop? Would avoid loads of problems.

#4 AYACHT

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 04:45 PM

HOW ABOUT TWIN 25 HP OUTBOARDS?

#5 Presuming Ed

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Posted 03 March 2004 - 05:37 PM

P_Wop, on Mar 3 2004, 04:30 PM, said:

Well, on the ORMA tris it's because the rules require it:

For safety reasons, boats shall be equipped with a fixed mechanical inboard non turbocharged diesel engine with a minimum power of 27.2 Kw (37 HP), measured at the gearbox output, measured according to ISO 8665. This engine shall propel the boat via a two-bladed folding "ducks beak" propeller having a diameter of at least 430mm. This propeller and its drive system (propeller shaft, sail drive, etc) shall be fixed. The gear ratio between the engine and the propeller shall be adapted to the diameter of the propeller. Any other method of propulsion than an exterior propeller is prohibited. The mid-plan of the propeller, in maximum open position, shall be located at a distance from the bow of comprised between 30 and 80% of the overall length.

http://www.multis-on...f/champ2004.pdf

Don't know about the G-class, though. Ellen pulled the engines from B&Q when she tried for the Jules Verne.

#6 P_Wop

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Posted 04 March 2004 - 06:04 PM

Sure, you're right: the ORMA rules prescribe a fixed installation. But I can't find any corresponsing mandate that the 'unlimited' record-breaking multihulls have any such constraint. What am I missing here?

I did some back of the envelope calcs on drag. At 40 knots, the fixed external drive part, leg or p-bracket, plus folding prop produce about as much pure drag as all of the rest of the hull and dagger board combined. Don't forget it's poking out there at maximum depth on the immersed hull.

Aesthetically, the whole fixed shaft/strut/folder or S-drive/folder idea just looks so wrong sticking out of the bottom of both hulls of a big cat.

And on top of that is the vile disturbance from the thing hitting the rudder behind it. Surely this can't be fast.

#7 Presuming Ed

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Posted 04 March 2004 - 06:48 PM

I haven't found anything to say that an engine is required on a G-class boat. Given that the majority of the time these things won't be doing JV record attempts, but presumably a fair amount of things like corporate day sails, testing, and shorter record attempts etc, presumably they feel they need them.

Which raises the question - why not have a retracting prop? Structure - a gurt big hole in the bottom of the boat might lead to all sorts of stress concentrations etc? Simplicity? KISS?

#8 Tom O'Keefe

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Posted 04 March 2004 - 07:40 PM

I agree KISS. But, how hard is it to put a removable faring block over a shaft log hole and prop shaft strut hard point mount. If you dismast, someone goes in the water and mounts the strut and shaft. Yeah, I know it's frickin cold in the Southern Ocean. But, what are they carrying a navy driver for anyhow?

#9 vibroman

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Posted 04 March 2004 - 07:51 PM

J/24 Kid, on Mar 3 2004, 03:29 PM, said:

Makes ya wonder where the blame will lie? Builder? Designer? Regardless, she's an amazing boat, and hopefully with a bit more testing she'll be attempting some other records.

Didn't they hit a shark or something after the restart ?

VM

#10 Guest Anarchist Wetass_*

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Posted 04 March 2004 - 08:38 PM

Here are additional details of Orange II's difficulties, from an e-mail from navigator Roger Nilson.

Best, Tim Zimmermann
http://www.wetasschronicles.com

Email from Roger:

"On the way down to Cabo Verdes in fresh NE trade winds, we had flawless sailing except two small happenings. One was catching a 2 meter long shark, which got folded around our starboard daggerboard. After stopping and backing, the poor backbroken shark could be seen floating off.

The other was suddenly breaking the steering cables on port side. At 25 knots of boatspeed with 1100 sqm of sail, it is not good loosing control. A fast reaction from the helmsman and another crew quickly running over to take the helm on the other side, and all was fine.

Early morning the 2nd of March a strong, hard, vibrating sound developed under the area of the propeller. We knew the shark had not been close to that area, so it had to be something else. The hope was that we had caught something, but the sound was indicating a worse condition, as it got stronger and stronger into the last dark morning hours.

At 0530 we stopped and backed off. No improvement. We decided to slow down the track, and at 0630 we had sailed the boat into the lee of Ilha de Santo Antao, the most north-western of the islands in the archipelago of Cabo Verdes. Our very experienced diver Vlad went down into the dark and bumpy water. He brought bad news to the surface.

The oval, streamlined "box" made out of carbon and foam, covering the vertical square drive to the propeller, had started to peel off from the bottom of the boat...

First we decided to sail down to the smoother waters of the doldrums, hoping to fix it there. But 70 nm later, running fast with the genaker, the noise got worse and worse. Our cat was creating heartbreaking sounds, and we had to look for better options. We altered course 45 degrees to port and aimed for Fogo Island in order to find a really calm place leeward of this large Island. As the daylight was vanishing, we changed the course a bit and pointed at the smaller but closer Island Brava, the most south-easterly of all the volcano-created islands.

After finding a flat, windless spot, very close to this dry but pretty island, Vlad was down with his diving bottle again. The mission was to see and evaluate if we could repair or cut off the whole thing.

The conclusion came soon. As you are not allowed to lift the boat out of water during a Jules Verne, we were facing a hopeless case. No chance to repair or cut off the box and strut below water with resources available onboard. To continue with high speeds in the Southern Ocean would be dangerous. Further damage to the bottom of the hull could have developed. "