[cherub_sailorgirl]

Can someone please run through step by step exactly how to get a good start? I have never been taught how to start and consequently I have absolutely no idea what I am supposed to be doing and I just make it up as I go along. However, apparantly that is not working for us as our starts keep stuffing up, so it looks like I need to somehow figure out how to do it properly.

Also, how can you get a good start right on the start line, but not get pushed over it by everyone else?

Why does everyone bunch up down one end of the starting line? I mean, why have such a long start line if everyone bunches together and screams at one another? What is the point of that? Wouldn't it be better to space out along the line and get a clean start in clear air?

[tacticat]

Go to Tacticat Site, get a Laser and try the starts against other sailors or robots.

You can make a start every 10 minutes or so. That will improve your plan and tactics, SURE.

Boat handling is another question.

[not growing up]

The best technique is simple and almost impossible. Just pick out the best racer in your start, then position yourself near the starting line about one boat-length to leeward of his ( or her ) boat. Hold this position ( this is the hard part ) and accelerate to cross the line at the gun about 1/2 boat length ahead. The race is now yours to lose. As Buddy Melges said " start first and gradually extend your lead ".

[TeamFugu]

What is the best way to start is dependent on the conditions. Often the bunch up is where everyone thinks the best spot is for the most advantage. Even when the line is tilted more in the port tack favor, people will still bunch up and the starboard end. The thinking here is that the port favor doesn't outweigh the chance that you'll have to duck several boats or the whole fleet if you miss time the port start.

One way to practice timing is to get some type of buoy and set your watch for about a minute. Pretend that is one end of the line or the other and sail off a bit from the line and try to touch the buoy just as your timer goes off. Do this a lot and from varying distances from the buoy and you'll get a good feel for the timing. Now in a real start you just add a bunch boats trying to get to the same spot at the same time and trow it all out the window. Actually the timing thing will help a lot.

The next thing is you can shadow someone that usually gets very good starts. I've had people hunt me down before. I don't like it but it makes me a better sailor.

Another rule I've heard is that if you aren't over early once in a while, you aren't agressive enough. Just make sure that you are on one of the ends if you are. Returning back to the line from the center of the line can be a deal breaker. There are a lot of good books on racing tactics and almost all of them say the same thing. The best thing to do would be gatter some mates and practice starts for several hours. You can turn it into some form of a game so that it isn't so boring.

#1 rule, Practice, Practice, Practice.....

[mcscw]

laser2_9804, on Dec 12 2006, 10:59 AM, said:

Can someone please run through step by step exactly how to get a good start? I have never been taught how to start and consequently I have absolutely no idea what I am supposed to be doing and I just make it up as I go along. However, apparantly that is not working for us as our starts keep stuffing up, so it looks like I need to somehow figure out how to do it properly.

Also, how can you get a good start right on the start line, but not get pushed over it by everyone else?

Why does everyone bunch up down one end of the starting line? I mean, why have such a long start line if everyone bunches together and screams at one another? What is the point of that? Wouldn't it be better to space out along the line and get a clean start in clear air?

Yes, you definately want clear air......the reason they bunch up is because one end of the line is more favored than the other, either protecting a favored side, or one end of the line is further up wind (line is not square)

1. Go buy "Sailing Smart" by Buddy Melges....it is now your bible

2. Figure out before the start which side of the course you predict will pay off (you need to get out and sail the course early)

3. Once the line is set check to see if it is square
Take a wind reading and write it down. on starboard tack, run your boat down the line and write down the heading; then on port do the same; subtract your two heading from your wind reading; the tack with the least difference is closer to the wind (upwind). So, if it was the starboard tack the pin is favored, port tack committee boat favored
If you do not use a compass....sail your boat down the line on each tack...which ever tack your are sailing more close-hauled that is the end that is more up wind.

4. If you are new do not start directly beside the best racer.....you will get your doors blown off and will immediately fall back in the fleet. I suggust you start several boat lengths to windword of that guy...that way you can look at him easier with him below you and kind of get an idea of what he is doing.

5. Always start with clear air

6. Always be moving at close to full speed when the gun goes off.

[mustang__1]

to help with down speed acceleration, heel the boat to leeward, then flatten it really fast, keep the main trimmed, but twisted. Dont board it or you will not do anything. Same with the jib.


If you start to leewatd of a good guy, they will have botch your start because they will most certainly power over the top you.


be agressive.

[Living_in_a_box]

not growing up, on Dec 12 2006, 02:30 PM, said:

The best technique is simple and almost impossible. Just pick out the best racer in your start, then position yourself near the starting line about one boat-length to leeward of his ( or her ) boat.

But don't go offering yourself as a marshmallow!

The good guys know who the other goods guys and who the Newbies are. They will not usually line up against another good sailor if they can help it- why make it difficult for themselves? So they look to line up against the newbie, and will smile... They've found a marshmallow, and a good start... B)

[Matt D]

If you're having problems with the start, go at least 1/3rd of the way down the line from the favored end. Come in on port and pick a big hole to tack into. Tack under a slow boat in the fleet, and make sure you don't have a pincher under you. Figure out how long it takes you to accellerate to full speed from a stop, and with that time to go before the gun, bear away, accelerate, heading up to close hauled, crossing the line at the gun. Performed well, this will slingshot you a boatlength or two ahead of your surrounding competition.

[Tabasco1394]

The first thing you want to do is determine the favored end of the line, that can be done using several differant methods but I tend to use the following. Before the start, sail along the lenght of the line (on starboard) and get a bearing from the flag of the RC boat to the pin. Once you have that number. Add 90 degrees. That is where the the windward mark shoudl be if the RC set a "perfect" course. Get a heading to the real windward mark. If the windward marks bearing is to the left of the "perfect" windward mark, then the pin is favored. If the real windward is to the right of the "perfect" windward mark, then the boat is favored.

My next step is to determine the favored tack. Take a wind heading every 5 minutes before the start. write that with grease pencil anywhere you can on the boat. Since you already have the heading to the real windward mark you can compare that number to your heading numbers. If the true wind direction is to the left of the real windward mark, then port tack is favored. That means that you want to get to that tack as soon as you have a clear lane after the start unless there is an overwhelming tactical reason not to (sudden shift or a hole out on the favored side) Now that you have a favored end, favored tack, I like to stand up as high as I can on the boat and look for pressure differances out on the race course. if port tack brings you closer to the windward mark but you have to sail through a hole, it is generally not worth it. Experiance will help you make that distinction

Now that I have a feeling for what I am going to do at the start, I begin to work out how I am going to place myself on the line. I would not look for the fastest guy and start to leeward of him as instructed above. Although you may be in the right place, if this is a dingy, there is a VERY good chance you are going to get rolled within 2 boatlenghts. In OD, a good skipper on a fast boat may be considerable faster then a new person so you may not stand a chance. I am alwys against setting up with a really fast person unless you are really fast yourself. What you should be looking for is the best place for you and make sure that you have a the biggest hole to leeward that you can find so that at the start you can bare off and get some speed. If I am going to start on Starboard tack, I will approach the line on port one or two boat lenghts below the line looking for a proper hole. I will stalk the line until is see a nice little hole and then tacke as close to leeward of the windward most boat. Then Protect the hole to leeward with your life. If someone is sailing up on port and looks like they want to take that hole, steer towards them. Make it very apparent that you are not going to make it easy on them if they try and go in there. You are on starboard and there is NO proper course before a start so you own that area. Practice how you can slow your boat down and manuever iti so that you can retain your spot. be sure to power up with enough time to get the OD you are sailing moving at full speed at a few seconds before the start. On most classes, a slight lean to leeward and then a quick flatter with help you power up off of the starting line. After that, good luck.

[brown scented bilgewax]

Sounds like you're pretty much getting good textbook advice here.

Couple of things I picked up from a North pro at a sailing school I attended a few years back that I found helpfull...

1. Once the line is set, stay up on it while you are sailing back and forth before the start. Most people fall back behind it a ways. Staying on it gives you a better feel for where it is, when its time to go, and dramatically increases your chances of being on it when the time comes. Sail away from it only right before the start when you are ready to make your approach.

2. Whenever possible, get there early and sail a full windward leg before the start. Notice where the shifts come from and how they are cycling. Use this info to plan your start accordingly.

3. Get clear air as fast as possible and at all costs.

[Ross]

first row start, first row start, FIRST ROW START!!!

if you got that your golden

now just pick which side of the line to start on, then your really golden

easier said than done...

[Al.]

Don't barge, unless the starboard end of the line is at the end of pier. A fairly low pier. One that you can sail along right next to. Then barge. By god barge.


This line almost never exists. But it's handy to that no-one is allowed to shut you out on it.

[knobblyoldjimbo]

http://www.sailnet.c...artID=leonar006

read, read and read - there are heaps of articles on the web.

I print these to pdf and do a bit of revision before a big (to us) event. You should eventually find about 50 or so articles of interest.

One I tried this years Nats was to park at the boat, not let anyone in and swish up and down to give myself room then just before the gun, bear off for speed then hit the line. Worked well some of the time. I also like the one about approaching the line faster than starting speed (ie reaching).

Look at the Contender thread for a perfectly executed Port start - that guy must have been absolutely stoked - it gave him about ten lengths advantage plus the phsycology.

[IanA.]

If none of the other advice makes sense to you, follow around the best sailor there and start always by him/her and watch there moves. Watch were they are tacking in what wind conditions and were they setup ie. above/below other boats.

give it a try

[cherub_sailorgirl]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I won't get to try it out until the Nationals unfortunatly, but hopefully some of it pays off there for us.

That book looks good, as does the website - I downloaded a few useful looking articles already.

Mustang_1 said to be aggressive - I think that is part of my problem. I enjoy racing, but I want a fair race - I don't see racing as being about pushing other boats up so that they break the start just to get yourself a better start. Yet if you want a front-row start in 125's you have to be prepared to become a victim of that and risk being pushed over the line, and if you are amongst the pack (not front row) you have to push everyone else up cause the boats below you will be pushing you up. Therefore I usually end up starting at the back of the pack or somewhere else down the line on my own so that I don't get into that situation.

Also, although I find it hard to be aggressive, I get angry easily. For example, someone will be below me screaming 'up up up' and I will be screaming 'piss off!!!!' back at them, instead of concentrating on the start.

Btw, can I get protested for breaking the rules if I refuse to go up? There was an incident on the weekend where we were close to the startline in the front row and the boat below was pushing me up. I refused to break the start so I told her I wasn't going to go up. She kept bearing up anyway and ended up hitting us. Then the gun went so I just bore up and took off. However, in this instance I was actually the windward boat, meaning I should have kept clear but I didn't really have much choice. Could I be protested for not keeping clear in a situation like that?

[mustang__1]

could you be protested? hell yeah! however, say something smart, like, i cant, "theres a boat above me that wont go up", "im head to wind" "mind your own start" "eat my fuck".

racing is racing. If you want to be in first, then sometimes you have to be a bitch. Especially if everyone else is.


being agressive does not neccasirly mean dickin with the rules, mind you. It can also mean be on he line at the gun, risking being over, and then working the boat upwind agressively. Throwing your shoulders foreward timed with movement of the helm and main sheet etc to squirt it foreward and move as fast as possible.


you dont have to start in the wad, and i advise against it. This does not mean start at the wrong end of the line, just dont start in the middle of the wad. Especially if you dont want to tool with people.


However, making a hole for yourself on the start will be imperative in a big fleet/short line, so learn to scream up and postion the boat accordingly....

[Encurly]

laser2_9804, on Dec 13 2006, 01:01 PM, said:

Btw, can I get protested for breaking the rules if I refuse to go up? There was an incident on the weekend where we were close to the startline in the front row and the boat below was pushing me up. I refused to break the start so I told her I wasn't going to go up. She kept bearing up anyway and ended up hitting us. Then the gun went so I just bore up and took off. However, in this instance I was actually the windward boat, meaning I should have kept clear but I didn't really have much choice. Could I be protested for not keeping clear in a situation like that?

Absolutely. Relevant rule is 11:

Quote

11 ON THE SAME TACK, OVERLAPPED
When boats are on the same tack and overlapped, a windward boat shall keep
clear of a leeward boat.

Along with definition of proper course:

Quote

Proper Course A course a boat would sail to finish as soon as possible in the absence
of the other boats referred to in the rule using the term. A boat has no proper course
before her starting signal.

The absence of proper course before the start means that a leeward boat can sail as high as head to wind and the windward boat has to give way - that is, rule 17 does not apply.

[Tornado_ALIVE]

Decide on you immediate upwind tactics ie. Which side of the course you believe is favoured. If it is the right, it may be better to start on the boat end even if it is a pin end bias line so you can make a clear tack out to the right shortly after the start. If the left is favoured and the line is neutral or pin bias, start on the pin, foot off and go for speed to get to the left first.

Determine the bias of the line using compass bearings on each tack and work out the medium. Then run down then run down the line taking the bearing of the line, subtract / add 90 degrees and compare this with your medium bearing. This will tell you if the line is bias and by how many degrees.

Take a transit by sitting outside the end of the line you plan to start closest too and line up the 2 start buoys and take a land reference if one is available. This way when you are starting, and are not close to either end, you can line the land reference up with one of the buoys to work out how close you are to the start line.

Sit near a fixed object and work out how much drift you are going to get and what direction from the wind, waves, tide. Time your drift over 1 minute and take note of where you drift and how far. Take this into account when racking up on the start line.

Pick your spot on the line early. Small fleets you may be able to duck in with less than a minute remaining. Big fleets and you may have to rack up 2 to 3 minutes in advance to get your spot. Keep some room between yourself and the boat below you, but not enough to let another boat squeeze in. This is your little ‘zone’ where you can bear away a bit just before the start and accelerate. Protect this spot aggressively. Also try and keep close to the boat to windward off you and slightly in front. Shut his ‘zone’ down. Don’t give him any room to accelerate over the top of you.

In the final minute, don’t stop your boat. Keep it moving as slow as you can so you can hold your position but maintain steering. This will require a lot of training on how to sail slow. Get out outside of racing and practice this.

Also understand how much time and room you need to accelerate your boat up to full speed and apply this to the start. Get rid of your wrist watch timer and get a watch such as a Ronstan watch or Tacktick Micro Compass and position it somewhere where you can see it clearly whist looking forwards.

Note, clean air is the most important thing especially on the start line. Make sure you get it and if you don’t, get out of there ASAP. During a regatta, I would recommend going for conservative starts with clean air at the start of the regatta, and towards the end if you are chasing positions, start to develop a more high risk approach to your starts in search of the perfect start. If you try and mix it up with every other boat chasing the perfect start, you will likely loose out more times than not. Let the other boats make mistakes and just get clean starts and consistent top places

The good sailors will nearly always try and position themselves around punters for a safer start unless they are hunting someone in particular to consolidate a series.

Hope this helps

Good luck and sail fast.

[tacticat]

And, seriosuly, try some Tacticat starts...

Almost all, excellent, tips you have been told can be trained there. You alone or racing with oher sailors.

Ahhh, most important, there are 2 boat types: a Cat, and a Laser. Dont get the wrong boat :P , starting tactics and skills are completely different.

aestela
tacticat admin

[tacticat]

Solo, on Dec 13 2006, 05:54 PM, said:

nice site but get real, pressing Shift and Space bar repeatedly isn't gonna get you on the line at full speed on the water. although maybe sitting on a leaning chair in the shower may help but then there is danger of electricution.

Sorry if i gave the impression that Tacticat could compare to the real thing. Obviously NOT. Nothing compares to be wet and under stress at a crowded line.

But Tacticat has helped sailors to improve their starts, that's all. You can be the King of Mambo at Tacticat and still be a very bad real starter :rolleyes:

aestela

[Danneskjold184]

Quote

ould you be protested? hell yeah! however, say something smart, like, i cant, "theres a boat above me that wont go up", "im head to wind" "mind your own start" "eat my fuck".

It's easy to curse and yell at someone. It's hard to make them question what they are doing. One of our graduated sailors loves to tell the other boats that they are endangering their crews.

Like if a boat was barging, he'd yell out, "Don't go in there! Don't do it! You're not sailing safe! You are going to get hurt if you go in there! YOU ARE ENDANGERING THE LIVES OF YOUR CREWS!"

Cursing at a boat brings the crew together. Making them question their safety tears them apart. It's all about the mind games.



Anyway, you'll soon come to realize that the people you're racing against are mostly the same people over and over. These are the people you party with, and in a few years, drink with. While it is fun to be ultra competitive, don't get angry. Then the other people will get angry at you. And the after party gets really awkward...

[mustang__1]

Yea yeah, i know it, Im usually not the one that worries about cursing out boats though, i leave that to my skipper! he's even worse than me...

generally on the race course i dont like to throw a cursing fit, thats slow. but bobbing on the startline is different... Being agressive on a starting line to intimidate can be affective though. As for after the race, it seems to be an accepted fact, at least often, that a person on the racecourse can be a completely different person on shore.


one note, its generally un advisable to list a person's name on here, some people dont like it. I personally dont care all too much about it, everyone in my area knows who i am anyway etc. just a forewarning.

[surf nazi]

It's a little hard to learn to start on a website. It takes practice and lot's of it. Here are my helpful hints. First, learn the rules. From one of your earlier posts it's painfully obvious that you do not. Don't worry though, there's plenty of people out there who don't. Next, learn to handle your boat. By this I mean, learn how to stop, accelerate, tack/ jibe quickly and know how much time and distance it takes to do these manuevers. Your first practice after doing the above should consist of setting a line and just try to start with full speed and on time with no other boats around. If possible get a friend to be the committee boat and maybe take a video with the countdown included. Then work on all your starts, starboard-boat, port-boat, starboard-pin, port-pin, midline just trying to hit the line on time with speed. Once you know the rules and start getting the feel for the time/distance of your boat, you'll find starting with the other boats a lot easier. Then it's just a matter of doing a lot of starts and learning from your mistakes.

[USA-7]

TeamFugu, on Dec 12 2006, 10:18 AM, said:

... You can turn it into some form of a game so that it isn't so boring.

#1 rule, Practice, Practice, Practice.....

you sound just like Roddy Pattison