[Beck's]

Hey - stop the gossip shit about BR - I am very happy with my new boat and despite the length of time it took to get it I'm absolutely thrilled to have one. I have a good boat building background and therefore understand the build issues. A few little issues do not bother me and BR has always been very responsive.

I'm not getting into any of the technical issues on an open forum and would rather post reports on foiling etc. :rolleyes:

[JimC]

Phil S, on May 20 2007, 08:51 AM, said:

Every boat builder will tell you that a new design takes some time to refine. (Look at the Hoot and Voodo threads for example.) Every buyer of a new design must expect some teething problems. Bladerider have admitted as much with their guarentee to replace faults in the first 12 months. Obviously they would prefer there were none, but that would be optimistic.

There's also a cultural factor to consider. A good Moth will break if its mistreated. If its strong enough not to break its too heavy. Within any lightweight class there's culture - people new to the class pick up how to treat boats, what you can do, what you can't. That standard of care feeds both ways, in that builders have to worry less about poor handling, so structures can be a little lighter and less refined.

If boats go outside that culture - and the early days of the 49er were an *excellent* example - then there will be a learning period in which the boatbuilders have to rework some of the kit to deal with maltreatent that would never come from sailors in the class culture, and also the culture of approrpiate boat treatment has to extend to the new userbase.

There will be bladerider problems just becauseof that situation. They will get sorted out. But if you can't cope with the thought of a boat that needs sympathtic handling then SHC designed the Club 420 just for you...

[Doug Lord]

Beck, on May 20 2007, 01:33 PM, said:

Hey - stop the gossip shit about BR - I am very happy with my new boat and despite the length of time it took to get it I'm absolutely thrilled to have one. I have a good boat building background and therefore understand the build issues. A few little issues do not bother me and BR has always been very responsive.

I'm not getting into any of the technical issues on an open forum and would rather post reports on foiling etc. :rolleyes:

========================
I'd say that most, if not all, reading this forum have a rather extensive background in design and/or building and/or sailing and maintaining small sailboats. I'd say that those people are fully aware of the possible problems and could learn from a discussion that included the "technical issues" as you put it. Nobody is out to get Bladerider but many would like to hear the whole story -good and bad. It's only in understanding the details that the real picture is likely to emerge.
I think it is a damn shame that some people appoint themselves as arbiters of what is fit for an audience of experienced-and very interested- sailors. The story will get out one way or the other: it can be upfront and accurate or it can be
backdoor with a lot of half truths and BS thrown in. Which way do you think would be better?

[Harry Belafonte]

Beck---I wanna see the pictures of the foiling from yesterday, those pictures with the empire state building in the background are classic!

TC

[Beck's]

Ok - empire state photo - it was a great day... with lots of smiles and two of us (Stu and I) each taking a go at it and both foiling ... :rolleyes:
 IMG_7027.JPG (2.68MB)
Number of downloads: 190

[Harry Belafonte]

When I was at my commisioning this morning at Pequot, I heard the commodore from American and Larchmont talking to each other about it. The commodore from AYC didn't think you got foiling, at which point I introduced myself and proved him wrong! It was a blast just being able to watch you and Stu sailing, the acceleration on the Moth is CRAZY!

Tim

[spinntrim]

Ok so it's offical bqulari was a foiling Yesterday.

After the M24 regatta he took it out and all i have to say is WOW!! I want one.
Ill need to go on a bit of a weight loss program but hey it looks like too much fun

[captanarchy560]

where is this taken? think I could give it a go sometime? I could put up a ride on the 29er (not nearly as sweet as your moth though :-))

[kmccabe]

Ohhhh c'mon Beck's --- both you and I KNOW you have more stuff than that......

yes kids --- he got foiling. It was incredible.

Acceleration like hitting a WARP Factor.

Harry - I've got someone's top from CT....

[kmccabe]

Oh - also -

AYC needs to get an 18.

We just decided.

[Harry Belafonte]

kmccabe, on May 20 2007, 09:01 PM, said:

Oh - also -

AYC needs to get an 18.

We just decided.

Just decided? C'mon kmccabe, I thought we decided on that Saturday. We could get a fleet of 2 used 18s for the price of one Bladerider...I think match racing would be the way to go.

p.s-check your pm's

TC

[atypicalguy]

Beck's sorry to hear about your troubles. I'm sure they'll have a replacement to you directly.

Regardless of teething problems one must acknowledge that were it not for the Bladerider, neither bgulari nor Becks would likely have purchsed Moths. So although the BR has a hype machine going it is really working for the benefit of the class and opening up the US market for Moth sailing. Rohan has logged a lot of miles spreading the good word about these boats and he is right - they are great and deserve wider attention. I think one of the big reasons Moths (and canoes, which I also sail) are not more common here is that no one knows they exist. No one other than BR has put the resources behind this sort of promotion and marketing and anyone who sails Moths is benefitting hugely from it - look at the list of hotshots set to sail at Garda. Certainly foiling itself is responsible for a lot of attention, but from this side of the ocean I see the BR having a disproportionately positive impact on the future of the US Moth fleet.

Any problems experienced by BR are also a testament to the the progress already made by other private and professional Moth manufacturers in addressing these same structural issues successfully.

[kmccabe]

I know, I know. I haven't checked the other thing, Will do in the AM.

2 would be a good thing. We need to start with one.

[kmccabe]

atypicalguy, on May 20 2007, 09:13 PM, said:

Beck's sorry to hear about your troubles. I'm sure they'll have a replacement to you directly.

Regardless of teething problems one must acknowledge that were it not for the Bladerider, neither bgulari nor Becks would likely have purchsed Moths. So although the BR has a hype machine going it is really working for the benefit of the class and opening up the US market for Moth sailing. Rohan has logged a lot of miles spreading the good word about these boats and he is right - they are great and deserve wider attention. I think one of the big reasons Moths (and canoes, which I also sail) are not more common here is that no one knows they exist. No one other than BR has put the resources behind this sort of promotion and marketing and anyone who sails Moths is benefitting hugely from it - look at the list of hotshots set to sail at Garda. Certainly foiling itself is responsible for a lot of attention, but from this side of the ocean I see the BR having a disproportionate impact on the future of the US Moth fleet.

Any problems experienced by BR are also a testament to the the progress already made by other private and professional Moth manufacturers in addressing these same structural issues successfully.

Yea, whatever.

They're just cool boats. Period.

[captanarchy560]

I could go for an 18..... What ever happened to that guy up in VT who had (2002 i think) Nokia?

[kmccabe]

its a distinct possiblity. i need contact information.

That Blade Beck's, should be named Insanely Great.

[atypicalguy]

aus_stevo, on May 19 2007, 02:24 PM, said:

All very thorough and written by the people who know. pretty impressive

Very helpful. Thanks.

[nige]

gone sailing, on May 20 2007, 06:58 PM, said:

2 things really piss me off about this thread. Firstly, I thought that one of the golden rules of furoms is that you don't publish the details of a "private message" but leave it to the writer to do so. Even here on SA, surely there is some decency left.

Secondly, whenever professional business people come into sailing and start marketing a product properly, it is called hype. Since when was it wrong to try to sell as many of your products as you can? I have been thinking of getting a Bladerider having tried foiling and I loved it. I would never have considered getting a Moth until the Bladerider came along. Bladerider has moved the Moth from being an extreme fringe class to being centre stage.

Why are some Moth sailors so challenged by this? From the negative comments I have read from Moth sailors, is it suprising that I have also read they are setting up a different class association for Bladeriders. That would be such a shame. Yet other Moth sailors seem to welcome the arrival of the Bladerider with open arms. WTF!!!

Search some other posts and you will find the answer. They were not too smart/considerate with some of their early marketing and it came across pretty badly to the moth class and other builders. They realized that pretty quickly though and changed tack a bit but it left a bit of a bad taste in peoples mouths.

The difference between hype and marketing is the proximity to truth.

That is all history now though, boats are finally getting into peoples hands which is great, especially for the class in the US.

[bgulari]

Firstly I love my boat, my fiance made me promise her numerous times that she was more important to me than the boat. For some reason she does not believe me :) . Second the only problem I have had is I think one of my linkages in the wand/flap system is a little too long causing the pushrod to buckle when it is pushed all the way down. I do not think it is a big thing but I will sort it out.

There is also no one locally to ask so it is a just figure out as you go program. I was looking at the inventory I did not realize that there is a small cam in the sail. I assume that is for the second to top batten????

Has anyone pulled the pushrod out of their daggerboard? I pulled it part way to fix the bend the first time but I am leary that it is going to break this time when i bend it straight. How hard is it to lead another one in? It looks like a model airplane pushrod from a hobby store. Anyone have some insight?

[Bill_Vining]

What do you guys weigh?

Whats the weight range on a foiling moth? I'd assumed they were for midgets but Beck looks like a full size person.


Bill

[bgulari]

Bill_Vining, on May 21 2007, 04:47 AM, said:

What do you guys weigh?

Whats the weight range on a foiling moth? I'd assumed they were for midgets but Beck looks like a full size person.
Bill

I am a little heavy, 180lbs but i am working on loosing weight

did not feel like i was TOO heavy for the boat

[Phil S]

bgulari, on May 21 2007, 09:39 PM, said:

Firstly I love my boat, my fiance made me promise her numerous times that she was more important to me than the boat. For some reason she does not believe me :) . Second the only problem I have had is I think one of my linkages in the wand/flap system is a little too long causing the pushrod to buckle when it is pushed all the way down. I do not think it is a big thing but I will sort it out.

There is also no one locally to ask so it is a just figure out as you go program. I was looking at the inventory I did not realize that there is a small cam in the sail. I assume that is for the second to top batten????

Has anyone pulled the pushrod out of their daggerboard? I pulled it part way to fix the bend the first time but I am leary that it is going to break this time when i bend it straight. How hard is it to lead another one in? It looks like a model airplane pushrod from a hobby store. Anyone have some insight?

Bora,

You will love it even more when you get comfortable at sailing it fast.

You need to adjust the linkages so that when the wand is pushed up the flap is fully down (maybe 10degrees) and none of the linkages are jambed agains stops. If as you say, your system ran out of movement, that is probably why the SS rod bent. RTFM.

The smallest camber inducer is for the second top batten where the mast is smaller diameter. The top batten does not have one. After a while the cambers will scratch the mast. To prevent the scratches getting deep. wrap the mast at these locations with some hard plastic sheet, stickyback is best but taped on is OK. Replace it when it gets worn or torn, it saves the mast.

The pushrod should pull out the top. Take off the nuts at the bottom and disconnect the belcrank at the top and it should pull straight out. The BR I have seen have SS rod pushrods. SS is normally quite soft and should straighten easilly without fear of failure. There is I think a plastic tube in the fin which the rod runs in. If the rod is badly bent you could damage this tube so be wary not to force the issue. Get it as straight as posible before trying to pull it out. But you might have plastic like I think the Prowler used to have, which is like model airplane hardware, and I have also used 2mm fibre glass rod or even 0.8mm solid SS fishing trace wire.

There are always other solutions to any problem. Mothies are good at finding them. You do not need to wait for factory backup for little problems if you use a little ingenuity. They are flat out getting boats built and solving bigger issues, like transport and an iminent world championship.

Ask here or on http://www.moth.asn.au/forum/ There are plenty of mothies willing to help.

Bill,
The worlds fastest mothies are from 70 to maybe 80kg.
But there are big people like Ben Croker and Greg Wise as heavy as 95kg enjoying moths . Obviously they do not start flying in as light a wind as the small people.
Yumico Shige in Japan is only 48kg and she can still handle a Hungry Tiger in big winds. She might be very fast in light stuff if she gets foils.
I am 83kg, 1.9m tall and 57 years, not a regatta winner, but dedicated and addicted to the class.
Lots of variety.
Phil S

[yachtie2k4]

who were the 3 bladeriders out on the harbour on sunday? we were watching them from the e7, noiiiiiiice.

[SimonN]

yachtie2k4, on May 21 2007, 10:34 PM, said:

who were the 3 bladeriders out on the harbour on sunday? we were watching them from the e7, noiiiiiiice.

There were actually 5 Bladeriders out there, but there was lots of traffic with the big boat racing and not enough wind. There was Rohan, Scott, Amac, John Harris and myself. The wind was far better on Saturday.