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  1. 20 points
    A couple of things to bear in mind before any of the haters start throwing more shit around; 1. Plenty of talented and committed people have put a lot of work into building and maintaining this boat, to see it in this condition is going to be heart breaking for a lot more people than just the owner. 2. For the crew, at least the more junior ones, this was their home and they've likely lost a lot of personal possessions and probably their jobs. Regardless of your opinions on the ultra-rich and their 'dick swinging', there are many more layers to this story and people that are probably way more impacted than the owner. Most of these people work in the marine industry and are part of the extended community that we all belong to. So, don't be a dick - if you really don't like superyachts then move on to the next thread....
  2. 13 points
    I bought a Henri-Lloyd jacket in Plymouth just before the start of the TwoStar race. I had spent the whole delivery trip going sailing over for the start of the race patching, sewing, and recoating seams of my old jacket and was so cold and miserable that I spent the last of my cash on the nicest offshore jacket I could afford. The next day I was working in the cockpit of the tiny trimaran and the new jacket was sitting at the end of the cockpit still in its wrapper. A Henri-Lloyd sale rep walked by and saw it and asked where I had bought my new 'Jumper'. I didn't know what he was talking about and he said something further about my new 'kit'. I finally figured out he was talking about the foul weather jacket and told him the chandlery where I had spent my last few bucks. He asked if I had paid VAT (which I did...) and he said that I had that coming back to me and he would give me some forms to fill out to help get that money back since I wasn't a local. He asked where my 'Bib' was and I was stumped again. I was in fact trying to reseal my old bottoms of my gear and he pointed at them and asked why I didn't get the matching Henri-Lloyd bib. I told him I was more worried about cold N Atlantic seawater going down my neck than up my trouser cuffs. He just laughed and said he would be back. About 5 minutes later he walk back down the dock with an older distinguished looking gent in tow and introduces him as Mr Lloyd. He explained how I had foregone the bib for the higher priced Offshore Jacket and had some VAT money due to me. I still hadn't figured out who the kind old fellow was but he invited me to take a short stroll with him so up we went to the parking lot. He opens the door to a beautiful chocolate brown Rolls Royce sedan with engraved rear quarter window that read 'Henri-Lloyd'. He said, 'Let's take a short drive...' I slid in the left side door thinking I was going to get a chance to drive a Rolls but then realized it was the passenger seat. When Henri got behind the wheel on the other side I started to have qualms about our 'little drive'. He merely cruised to the other side of the parking lot to where there was a big trailer truck (lorry) with the Henri-Lloyd logo on it and they were hauling out boxes of gear for the big weekend boat show for the start of the TwoStar events. He disappeared into the truck and came back out and handed me the top of the line bib with a smile. I was so grateful until I got back to the boat and saw that the Ocean Bib was far better than my hardwon Offshore Jacket. The sale rep guy came around and offered to go to the chandlery to ensure I got my credit for the VAT paid and when we got there he just suggested to the merchant that they upgrade me to the Ocean jacket and we forgot about the VAT thing. Made the race almost bearable.
  3. 13 points
    [Interviewer:] Welcome, thank you for joining us in what must be a trying time. [Peters & May Spokesman:] It’s a great pleasure, thank you. [Interviewer:] This ship that was involved in the incident in the Mediterranean between Mallorca and Genoa this week… [Peters & May Spokesman:] Yeah, the one the MY Song fell off? [Interviewer:] Yeah [Peters & May Spokesman:] That’s not very typical, I’d like to make that point. [Interviewer:] Well, how is it untypical? [Peters & May Spokesman:] Well, there are a lot of these ships going around the world all the time, and very seldom does anything like this happen … I just don’t want people thinking that shipping luxury boats isn’t safe. [Interviewer:] Was shipping the MY Song safe? [Peters & May Spokesman:] Well I was thinking more about the other ones… [Interviewer:] The ones that are safe... [Peters & May Spokesman:] Yeah... the ones where the luxury boats don’t fall off. [Interviewer:] Well, if this wasn’t safe, why did it have MY Song on it? [Peters & May Spokesman:] Well, I’m not saying it wasn’t safe, it’s just perhaps not quite as safe as some of the other ones. [Interviewer:] Why? [Peters & May Spokesman:] Well, some of them are built so the luxury boats don't fall off at all. [Interviewer:] Wasn’t this built so MY Song wouldn’t fall off? [Peters & May Spokesman:] Well, obviously not. [Interviewer:] “How do you know?” [Peters & May Spokesman:] Well, ‘cause MY Song fell off, with the cradle and fucked the luxury boat right up. It’s a bit of a give-away.” I would just like to make the point that that is not normal. [Interviewer:] Well, what sort of standards are these ships which transport luxury boats built to? [Peters & May Spokesman:] Oh, very rigorous … maritime engineering standards. [Interviewer:] What sort of things? [Peters & May Spokesman:] Well the luxury boats are not supposed to fall off, for a start. [Interviewer:] And what other things? [Peters & May Spokesman:] Well, there are … regulations governing the materials they can be made of [Interviewer:] What materials? [Peters & May Spokesman:] Well, Cardboard’s out [Interviewer:] And? [Peters & May Spokesman:] …No cardboard derivatives… [Interviewer:] Like paper? [Peters & May Spokesman:]. … No paper, no string, no cellotape. No carbon … [Interviewer:] Carbon? [Peters & May Spokesman:] Yep, no carbon. Too fucking expensive... Um, They’ve got to have a steering wheel. There’s a minimum crew requirement.” [Interviewer:] What’s the minimum crew? [Peters & May Spokesman:] Oh… one, I suppose. [Interviewer:] So, the allegations that they are just designed to carry as much freight as possible and to hell with the consequences, I mean that’s ludicrous… [Peters & May Spokesman:] Ludicrous, absolutely ludicrous. These are very, very stable vessels [Interviewer:] So what happened in this case? [Peters & May Spokesman:] Well, MY Song fell off in this case by all means, but that’s very unusual. [Interviewer:] So why did MY Song fall off? [Peters & May Spokesman:] Well, a wave hit it. [Interviewer:] A wave hit it? [Peters & May Spokesman:] A wave hit the ship. [Interviewer:] Is that unusual? [Peters & May Spokesman:] Oh, yeah… At sea? …Chance in a million. [Interviewer:] So what do you do to protect the environment in cases like this? [Peters & May Spokesman:] Well, the ship was towed outside the environment. [Interviewer:] Into another environment…. [Peters & May Spokesman:] No, no, no. it’s been towed beyond the environment, it’s not in the environment [Interviewer:] Yeah, but from one environment to another environment. [Peters & May Spokesman:] No, it’s beyond the environment, it’s not in an environment. It has been towed beyond the environment. [Interviewer:] Well, what’s out there? [Peters & May Spokesman:] Nothing’s out there… [Interviewer:] Well there must be something out there [Peters & May Spokesman:] There is nothing out there… all there is …. is sea …and birds ….and fish ...and a few Lasers, they're everywhere you know... [Interviewer:] And? [Peters & May Spokesman:] And the wreck of MY Song. [Interviewer:] And what else? [Peters & May Spokesman:] And a cradle. [Interviewer:] And anything else? [Peters & May Spokesman:] And the ropes and chains and shit which tied the MY Song to the cradle, but there’s nothing else out there. [Interviewer:] Thank you for joining us.
  4. 13 points
    These toys employ a lot of us, directly or indirectly. When billionaires decide to spend their money in a way that puts it into the yachting industry we should embrace it and not bitch. Would you prefer they just left it in a bank volt? That side, was a beautiful yacht with some really innovative features. A lot of very talented and passionate people worked on the project and I feel sorry for them and all involved for seeing her come to such an end. And I feel for the owner, he put a lot of time, passion and money into the project and it was looking to have produced just what he wanted for years to come.
  5. 8 points
    97 year old Tom Rice parachutes into Normandy for the second time in 75 years. However during the first time it was dark and the Germans were shooting at him.
  6. 8 points
    She was never really an economical ocean liner. She was a thinly disguised troop ship that would outrun U-boats and torpedoes. 43 knots on trials? It was very heavily financed by the US dept of defense. In war, she was designed to carry 15,000 troops at about 35 knots across the Atlantic in 4 days. 990 ft long and 101 ft beam. So basically a 10:1 L/B ratio. Like a giant ass destroyer proportions. Aluminum superstructure to save weight. 274,000 HP and I think the same boilers and turbines as the Missouri class battleships. I was aboard her in ~2000 for a survey. In winter on a very cold winter day. It was like being inside a giant walk in freezer for 8 hours. Some dreamers had the idea of converting her for overnight cruises from LA to SF so we were checking her out. Her engine rooms were huge. The boilers went up into the darkness for several decks. She had a spare prop lashed to an upper deck. Had the highest pitch / diameter I had ever seen. The biggest drawback to the conversion - we figured you'd never find anybody left that could even get that steam plant started up, much less operating properly. Steamships are not like diesels. You don't just push a button.
  7. 8 points
    Peters and May could really do with listening to their legal department, shuttling up and hiring a PR company. Whoever is to blame, they’re not looking good with the way they’re handling this.
  8. 8 points
  9. 8 points
    It's because you started posting again. Last time you did this Maserati broke a foil. I think it would be safer for them if you just don't post.
  10. 8 points
    Here are two diagrams from a recent La Stampa article that shows the extent of the redesign. Not exactly a minor tweak. Cheers, Earl
  11. 8 points
    Now boys and girls, It’s interesting to read this topic and to read so many mis truths. So let’s look at some basic facts. 1 - The big boys toys have no relationship to small Boat sailors or clubs ? What a load of crap, every time you buy boat fittings, paints or any marine products the big boys have helped to fund the R&D of these products. Just think about a carbon mast ? A new laser carbon top section for $500 - 1000 and say they sell a few thousand a year, how much is the R&D component of that ? Bugger all. My songs mast would of cost between $3-4 million + and the R&D for that mast alone would of been $500,000 + dollars. My Songs mast R&D will trickle down to help pay for the lasers new top section R&D. It’s simple, the big boys toys do help us club sailors. 2 - Shipping v Sailing on own bottom ? Shipping a boat isn’t cheap and most will sail there boat themselfs between ports the thing is for most shipping is very cost affective and cheaper in the long run. I had a client who looked into shipping a 98 foot power boat from Brisbane,Australia to the Med and they did the figures. Wow it was surprising. $100,000 in fuel + crew wages + food + maintenance + ware and tear + brackages, Over $150,000 and 2 months and 1000 - 1200 engine hours. Shipping Brisbane to the Med $120,000. 1 month give or take a few days. Crew can take annuall leave, yearly maintenance/ slipping can be done during passage, no ware and tear on motor or boat. Shipping was a far cheaper option in the long run and safer for the boat. Shipping makes sense for some boats, unless you are cruising around the world and have time to spend Sailing. So why not ship the boat if you can afford it. We are all time poor and if you have the money why not ? 3 - Shipping Cradles Shipping cradles for boats like this are normally over built and are very strong, they can be a stand alone cradle that can be put together in either 2 different ways, Boat with keel on or keel off you just adjust the hight and bracing of the cradle. Or they are a combination of shipping containers / work shops and steel cradles. They are very strong and they are normally designed for shipping the boats all over the world. Like all things they can fail. It’s part of life. 4 - Shipping company / My Song skipper/ crew The captain, loadmaster and the skipper of My Song would all of overseen the loading of the boat and if anyone of them had any problems it would of been sorted out before the ship set sail so I’m shore the boat was loaded probably and safely. So it’s not a blame game of who stuffed up or who was responsible, the boat would of been safely loaded or they wouldn’t of sailed. 5 - weather and losing the cargo. It was stated that the ship was in a storm and it was Beaufort 8 conditions. Fresh Gale 34 - 40 knots + and 5.5 m + seas. The ship would of been rolling around and all of the cargo would of been being battered around. The captain may of even seen My Song moving about and not been able to do anything about it because of the bad weather. Stop and think, the crew could only of done so much to try and stop the losesing of the cargo. If the deck or cradle were wet how can they weld or repair the cradle or deck and fix more lashing points to the deck if needed. How could they safely climb onto the boat safely to attach more lashings when the weather is to dangerous to even go on deck. Unfortunately in today’s world of lawyers and insurance companies someone needs to be blamed and we all forget that accidents do happen. The only winners in this case will be the lawyers and they could drag this on for years and like most things, it will be us little guys that end up paying for a true accident in our insurance policies because the lawyers just want to fight. I’ve worked in the marine industry for 30 years so I do have some understanding of what’s happened. So let’s hope it can be saved and rebuilt and Sailing again and we see a rebuilding of My Song topic. pulpit p.s Hoppy, I’ve not blocked you yet. Lol
  12. 7 points
    On my first real offshore adventure I had a couple of college buddies with me on my newly acquired 42' trimaran and we were bound to the VI from New Orleans. I had done a N-S crossing of the Gulf on a motorboat a couple of years earlier but that was just motor due south by compass until you see the bank blink on the undersides of the clouds hanging over the coast of the Yucatan. My Dad had given me a Davis plastic sextant for this adventure and the boat had come with an old HeathKit RDF. My Dad had taught celestial when he was in command of the NJROTC unit at Rochester and had actually taught me to do a moonsight back then when I was in second grade! The math and reduction tables were another thing though. He just pointed out the very simple and basic 'lifeboat navigation' techniques which were included in the little pamphlet with the Davis sextant. To this day I think that the thrill of taking a noon sight after a couple of days out of sight of land and declaring to my doubting crew that they should be on the lookout for the Tampa sea buoy and then having it actually materialize right on the bow within an hour made me prouder of my navigation skills than anything to date. Later in that trip when out in the Out Islands of the Bahamas trying to make landfall during the night on Provo, I had a VHF radio angel helping guide me through the challenging island passes. It was a trimaran named TAO who had sailed those islands for years and did a daysail business in Turtle Cove. Seemed like he was always available on the VHF any time day or night and was always cautioning me to take my time and not get rushed in my haste to get to the VI. He kept saying that I was rushing past some mighty fine Islands every day just to get to some other Islands. He kept track of my progress from day to day and if the trades had been blowing and I had kept up too much sail and made a particularly fast passage he would worn me that the speed of a trimaran could sometimes just get you into trouble quicker. His admonishments to reef down and not wear out the boat and crew gradually sunk in on me. He would advise instead of trying to make a hop to the next Island by leaving in the morning and then run the risk of making landfall late in the day with the setting sun in your eyes to just have a big relaxed meal at sundown in a harbor that I knew how to exit safely in the dark. Then have the whole crew go to bed early just after sundown while still anchored and then get up and get underway around midnight when it was cool and you would make your landfall mid morning well rested with a comfortable time cushion if you didn't make as good a pace as you expected. I know that saved my ass a couple of times. As we looked for the big lighthouse on the North point of Provo in the wee hours I got a call from TAO and he wanted to know what my DR position was and if we had spotted the 24 mile light yet. He thought we should be just able to see it off our stbd bow and to make a slight course change to approach Turtle Cove when we spotted the light. I thanked him for his vigilance and his calming voice coming out of the night was very reassuring to my crew. As we gave our 'standing by on 16' I got a hail from another boat asking me if I could provide his position! He must have heard my conversation with TAO and me giving my DR to him and figured that I should be able to get a RDF vector to himself from my DR and tell him just where he was! TAO had admitted to me that he had an illegal VHF overpowered trasmitter and some fancy antenna setup because I could talk with him from well out of plain old 10 watt VHF so I figured the goofball wanting me to 'vector in on him' had to be within 5-7 miles or we would not even be talking. I asked where he got the idea of having another boat provide him with his position came from and he said he had been shadowing a big yacht for days and they had obliged in that manner. When he told me the name of his 'router vessel' I told him I had spoken with them a couple of hours earlier but they had faded out of range so he must have fallen too far behind for them. I did warm up the old RDF and try and get a bearing on his signal but there is the old 180° dilemma for that sort of thing due to the nature of a RDF antenna. I doubted he would be to the east of me well offshore from the Islands and gave the guy a rough 'cone of probability' and warned him that he was uncomfortably close the reef and point that the lighthouse we were trying to spot and to keep his eyes open for the unmistakable light. We spotted the light within hour right where TAO (and my DR) had told us to expect it and in another hour when the sunrise there was the long point and perfect reef under a beautiful lighthouse with surf peeling both way from the point below. We made our course alteration as advised to give us a glorious 9 mile reach on into the entrance to Turtle Cove. I was scanning the reef for potential surfing spots when I noticed something looking like it was nearly on the beach right under the lighthouse. Looked sort of like a boat and when we got close enough to see a mast and luffing mainsail I got on the VHF and hailed the name of the tagalong boat from during the night. Took a while for him to respond and could tell that I had woken him up. I asked if he knew what his position was yet and he said all he knew was that he had run aground! I asked him to look out the companionway and see if he could see a big black and white striped lighthouse and he said he could see it without even getting up from his nav station!. I knew that had to be the fool and said 'Stand by for your exact LAT/LON' and read him out the coordinates for the lighthouse off of my guidebook. Upon further inquiry he had fallen asleep on autopilot shortly after we spoke during the night and woken up a couple hours before dawn in the surf and bumped his way inside the reef and was grounded on the sandy beach just a few yards from the base of the lighthouse. He and his crew just went back to sleep. After I called they managed to motor off the sand but their motor was running on fumes and asked if we could take them in tow after they hopefully were able to motor out the channel through the reef. We doubled back a couple of miles and I tied two 6 gal diesel jerry jugs together with 100' of yellow poly pro ski tow rope (floats) and dropped one jug on either side of their bow for an easy boathook pickup. Turned out they had lost their boat hook so they just motored over the polypro line and fouled their prop but that did manage to get them their fuel. The boatowner had a young hippie kid and a lady school teacher that had hooked up with him on some sailing dateline thing and as I watched the kid get in the dinghy and retrieve the fuel jugs and them dive the prop with a knife to free the prop I could see his right arm in a sling or splint of some sort. He was bravely struggling with and injured arm but got the job done somehow. The skip asked that I escort them into Turtle Cove but I told them we weren't going to waste a great morning of sailing and the 12 gallons of fuel I had just given them should be more than adequate to get to the fuel dock at TC. He agreed but said that he didn't the charts or the guide book to make the winding entry channel through the reef there. I told him that we would be just inside the reef there diving for lobster and would await their arrival for the last tough part of the channel. Our karma must have been good because we stocked up on lobster and Nassau grouper and led the motley lost crew into the harbor. I went straight to the Customs and Immigration dock but the other guy went to the fuel dock against my advice. We had a delightful visit from and old gray headed Customs office if full uniform. It was Sunday and I expected to not be able to clear in until Monday but the old gentleman was a real treat to meet. He was so official and serious and his perfect penmanship as he slowly filled out the forms was a contrast to the asshole Police officer who search the boat and seized my SS 30 caliber M1 carbine. The old Customs guy made sure that they issue me a receipt for the firearm and ran them off as they were hinting around that we share our stock of Rum Cay Coconut Rum we had bought earlier in the week. As they left disappointedly the old Custom guy muttered about the 'young punks not deserving the badges' they wore. I did notice the old fellows eye did keep glancing at the Coconut Rum which didn't have tax labels (remember those?) and I did offer him a glass. He scowled at me and said that he was on official government business and that there would be none of that, at least until he had filled in the last form and made the last rubber stamps in our passports. Then he smiled and licked his lips and looked once more at the rum bottle. We hadn't had ice in a week and had gotten into the habit of drinking the coco rum with condensed canned milk and some Ovaltine which was sort of like a 'Bushwacker' but the old fellow scorned that and had his 'neat'. He had asked to inspect the M1 before the police took off with it and to our surprise he field stripped it in less time it takes me to write about it now. He looked down the bore carefully and asked how long I had owned the weapon. I told him I had bought it in Tampa about two weeks earlier and he told me I should get more practise with any weapon that I intended to use. In fact I think we had fired only one 5 round magazine with the gun and it was obvious to him from looking down the bore it was a near virgin weapon. He said that at least I had cleaned the weapon after those limited rounds and put it back together in a snap and handed it over to the cops. They also took the magazines and all the rounds we had but the old soldier told us that if we could reclaim the weapon a day before we left he would take us to the shooting range and try and 'familiarise' us with our new gun. He had been brought a local Island newspaper as a gift and I noted the date on the paper as December 7, 1981 and he noticed and asked, 'Do you young fellows know what today is?' I probably wouldn't have known off the tip of my tongue had I not noted the written date but I quickly said 'Pearl Harbor Day Sir, in fact the 40th anniversary!' He nodded approvingly and then looked out the boat towards the far horizon and added, 'I was there...' He spent a couple of hours with us telling of how an Island boy who had tried to enlist in the British Navy ended up in Pearl Harbor attached to the US Navy. What I wouldn't give to have had a IPhone to record his account of his story on that day long ago. But I digress, he finally said he needed to go down to the fuel dock before the punk cops arrested the intrepid navigator we had assisted. I asked how he knew about the fuel transfer and he said the light house keeper had witnessed the whole episode and there was some thought to arresting the errant fellow for damage to the national park reef there in front of the lighthouse. The old warrior must have pulled some strings to get the other boat off the hook and it wasn't long before the crew were at our boat begging for us to take them onboard and as far away as their previous skipper they could get. I'll save that for Chapter II.
  13. 7 points
    Sad to report I was not able to do the race this year as my partner of 34 years had a stroke a couple weeks before the race. She has been slow recovering and the drugs have had some side effects, mostly exhaustion and mood swings. She wanted me to do the race still and I didn't want her to feel she was the reason for not going, so I continued with the race prep to avoid any guilt on her part. The boat did all it could to slow my prep...rotted out nav lights that were 3 years old, water damage on the bow where the tarp didn't cover it, ballast tank issues, a broken oar handle when I stepped on it, wrapping my truck fender around the gate getting the pig out of my back yard, a dog biting me at the boatyard launch, outboard wouldn't start, forestay too short with new hinged mast base, a boom kicker mast slid blowing out, my new halyard QR too big for the jib eye, missing mainsail slide bits and winch bolt and a pin hole leak in one corner of my ballast tank patch job...in the end I told her the boat wasn't ready and I wasn't ready for the endurance required. Sometimes the hardest part is getting to the race. It may be a home build that takes too long, a truck breaking on the way, a boat coming off a trailer, a car accident involving a family member or work and commitments that come up that you just can't walk away from. My regrets that I didn't get to meet the racers and volunteers this year. I will be following the tracker again and look forward to cheering them on. It will be a cold couple of days on the water for the start and possibly lightning today. Winds will be fickle for a few days and self propelled gear will get tested. I was surprised by the keelboats time for leg one when I checked this morning. Congrads to the G32 crew for a very respectable finish. Cheers
  14. 7 points
    My name is Justin Scott. I am the former regional class president of the North American region of the International Viper 640 Class Association (IVCA) and the current Chairperson of the International Board of the IVCA. In effect, I previously held the equivalent of Andy's volunteer role and I currently hold Tracy's role (in the Viper Class). It is my way of giving back to a sport that I love. Like so many of us, I would not be racing sailboats if it was not for the Laser. I realize that Andy's question was not directed at me. Andy, I hope you will continue to participate in the discussion. Feel free to ignore 80% of the rhetoric and 80% of the questions (and Im sure you are not in a position to answer a great many of those questions). Unfortunately those of us with public identities must respect the privacy of those who chose not share their identity. It may be for professional reasons. It may be that they feel more empowered to express their true opinions anonymously. It may be sheer bloody mindedness. Its frustrating at times but at the same time, these forums provide a platform to share your views and insights. At times it requires a certain skin depth. Alongside many other contributors to this forum I care about the future of the Laser. It remains a massive part of the grass roots sailing scene and the health of the sport depends on our grass roots. I am optimistic about the options that single handed and youth sailors are offered but I hope those options grow on their own merits rather than an unnecessary implosion of the Laser. I have stayed firmly neutral in the various Laser disputes. Bruce Kirby is a friend and I remain proud that the designer of the boat that got me hooked on racing, seconded my membership letter to Noroton Yacht Club. Bill Crane is a friend . I have crewed for Bill and sailed with him in team racing events for NYC. Bill's nephew and I came second at the Viper world championship in Bermuda (not bad for an old guy!) I dont know Tracy well but I have spoken to Tracy a couple of times re One Design Council and I know him to be an incredibly honest and ethical person who gives his time to the Laser Class solely because he cares about Laser sailors and Laser racing. I imagine the European volunteers have similar motives. I know first hand some of the difficulties faced by some of the Laser dealers who want to please their customers. My only hope is that a resolution is found with everyone sitting around a table rather then calling for each others dismissal. It must be very stressful and certainly not what the Laser volunteers signed up for. From the Laser tent, the position of the Viper Class Association might seem enviable. We (the Class Association) own and registered the Viper logo and trademark. We appoint a class builder (and can theoretically appoint and dismiss more builders). We approve sailmakers and distributors. The board includes the three class presidents from each region who make the time to sail together in different parts of the world and build personal friendships that are useful when we deal with sensitive regional differences. However it is work. A class association's first loyalty and responsibility is to the class members (the sailors and owners). But a successful and thriving class and a well manged class association recognizes the importance of builder, sail maker and distributor. They enable our game. So as far as possible we embrace a partnership relationship with our commercial partners. We spend time and money trying to make sure that their economic models are profitable and fun for them. We want to be the class that they enjoy working with, do their best work for, and make money doing so. Of course, that depends on the other side wanting to be in a partnership relationship. All the best Andy, and I hope you occasionally continue to use SA as a platform to share the pov of a class volunteer.
  15. 7 points
    Yeah, he used to post on another forum. Showed pix of him building that boat; it was a labour of love. I have to agree about the hull form though. Recently saw a Roberts multi-chine version on the hard. I was really surprised just how wide and flat that hull was. No wonder they're roomy inside and have such a shitty righting moment. Probably sling him $100 or so though. It's my beer money, I'll spend it as I see fit. FKT
  16. 7 points
    C’mon, people, Lesbian Robot was brilliant but did not pen (type?) the NYYC rant. This was the response to LR whining about the leather couch in the Harbor Court men’s room (credit to some guy who should have a Pulitzer, not to me): Let me begin by saying that this message was clearly written by a bitter, sexually frustrated, marshmallow of a sailor. How do I know this? Well first of all, I can tell you that NYYC is one of the highest concentrations of wealth in the sailing community. Rich guys marry hot women. They then breed hot daughters who love to go to Daddy's club, get drunk on Daddy's tab, and fuck Daddy's bowman. You were too busy being pissed off about the drink prices to realize the potential. In fact, the guy who didn't respond when you said, "excuse me" was probably in the process of looking for his daughter. Mean while, the mast man is balls deep in this little cooz, and the irony is the she's calling HIM Daddy! So this father is picturing his little princess getting broken in two by some guy from Detroit, and you are pissed off because he didn't acknowledge you properly? Now who's being inconsiderate? The next item is the lawn. One of the nicest lawns I have ever been on. They have waitresses on the lawn. And they wear tight black pants. And these waitresses all get off work and go party in Newport. And where are you? You are too hung up on the leather couch in the pisser to ask them what their plans are. If you played your cards right, those tight black pants could be hanging from the mirror of the team van, and the two of you could leave a puddle of pleasure on the .6 runner. But you didn't. At any rate, either of the aformentioned girls can go get you drinks for free, be it on Daddy's tab or the house's. Instead, you are sitting in the corner, counting out your last few wet dollars, and getting pissed because you can't get drunk enough to make a total ass of yourself. The New York Yacht Club puts on good regattas. Sure, their a bunch of elitist assholes, but at least they don't try to hide it. They celebrate it. Who cares. They buy big boats, and let young hard-ons like you sail on them. I figure an extra buck per beer is worth at least a few hours of hanging out on the lawn and hitting on top quality stinky. God, I miss Newport. Usually by the time the owner has a daughter old enough to chug seed, the wife toast. The insurance company has totaled her. Usually. The owner has already moved on to some naughty little thing that, just a few years back, was an owner's daughter herself. The pit girl for example. Yes, the daughter loved the bowman. But the ideas that the wife have are much bigger. To compare a woman over 40 to a fine wine would be a cliche. I prefer a dry aged steak. On the outside it is a thing of beauty, though the grill has clearly left its mark. But once you bite into it, the experience is one to remember. The kind of thing where, when you get back home you high-five your dad. Now here's the thing that the young guys miss. They are so caught up in the daughter, and her stares, that they don't even notice the wife. She hasn't had sex with her husband in years, and even then the guy's circulatory system is only good for about five pumps, thinking about the babysitter he just dropped off. So there she sits, bored. Then her husband buys a boat to feed his ego, and gets a bunch of strong young lads to crew it. As the boat pulls into the dock, she is standing there with her daughter and a cooler full of beer. You are thinking about the daughter; the daughter is thinking about the beer; and the wife is thinking about you. To revisit an earlier point, the owner is thinking about the daughter, the beer, and you. So here's the play. When the owner gives his, "I want everyone sharp tomorrow" speech, and heads home, you take her to some bar and treat her like she's one of the crew. She'll get off on the novelty. After a few Kamikazis, she'll take you somewhere for sex that's so good you'll wish you had filmed it. Nobody gives head like a woman over 40. Of course you can't tell anyone. But the next day, when you are hooking up the bag, you can look back at the owner with a little smirk. And he doesn't even notice that you have a hard on.
  17. 7 points
    I have a little experience sailing the course. And even if I didn't, what's wrong with a little betting on the horse race!?
  18. 7 points
    No need for speculation, doom and gloom. Hull 3 sold a month ago, she is in structural fitout and her deck is being demolded. GB6804 has officially started with the inside skin almost complete. Several prospects have done seatrials on Condor and have or are still to come to France for visits. Turns out if you actually sell these boats at the right price the market is a little smaller (ha!). More than enough interest to keep building, most important is to maintain quality and streamline production. Yep it's official, with 3 boats in the yard we actually have a "production line". Building one boat is tough but staying efficient with 3 boats a year is the next big focus.
  19. 7 points
    Kiwis make up like 12% of SA posters, shitbrick. They don't rule the board, they just know how to argue and debate while you barely know how to read.
  20. 6 points
    I'm a lifelong racer who was spoiled with some pretty fun boats along the way. A decade ago my Dad bought a brand new Bene 43 via Sunsail in the leeward islands. It did it's tour of duty and we brought it up to Canada to live out its days. I never actually saw the boat until I met it in NYC to complete the trek home to Toronto. I admit I was skeptical at first as I'd always looked a little bit down my nose at cruisers. It's a Cyclades, one of the workhorses of the charter industry, same as those two young kids sailed around in for a long time videoing their exploits. Compared to most of what I sail she is a fat pig that doesn't go so much. This is what I thought at first. Now I have refined my thinking. Now she's a fat pig that doesn't go fast, but she does what she's supposed to very well, which is to be a recreational platform. Or as we now call her, the RV. Generally speaking it holds up pretty well, as well as we look after it. We've had no major system failures that were not the result of neglect on our part or operator error. The biggest issue was what someone spoke to upthread. Repeated groundings put the keel and interior frame in a less than optimal arrangement. I'm sure as a charter it took a few hits but nothing too bad. It wasn't until I hit some rocks fucking hard on the Canadian Shield that we really pranged it. We did not haul right away but in the winter I was doing an inspection of the bilge and noted the separation of frame and hull made worse by hairline cracks around the keel bolts. My spring work list got considerably longer at that point. A few hundred hours later I had re-bonded all the bits back together and remediated all of the bad things, with up to 40 layers of 10oz in some places. I have no doubt had we ventured out for another 400 miles of summer cruising where I happily sail the boat in 30 knots of breeze, without the repair it would have ended in tears. Today she's tight and stiff. Now for me, I'm lucky as I'm handy with a grinder and WEST system, I got out of trouble for only a few thousand in materials and consumables. For most punters it would have been at least $20K in the shop to do the work I undertook. A "better" boat would likely have simply cost more to repair as the fractures would have been better hidden and the systems nested in a more complex and frustrating way on top of the work that needed to be done making the repair more difficult and costly. Additionally, the way I grounded the boat would have hurt pretty much ANY boat of any quality enough that So is the boat super high quality? Not compared to other more bespoke boats. But I'm not sure that's the right question. Is the boat good value is a better question. Yes, absolutely it is. For half the price of comparably sized yachts, we probably get 90% of the functionality of those other fancier rides. You could get into what the idea of "functionality" is for sure and debate that endlessly. But again, it's about what you are asking the thing to do. the vast majority of boats spend 98% of their lives in a cradle or tied to a dock acting as floating picnic tables, which is totally OK by me. The criteria for success for a cruising boat are really those defined by their unique users, from owners to wives, to kids and guests. What do you really do with the boat? How often do you do it? Do the extra wizz bangs make your experience more enjoyable, safer, more cost effective to operate? perhaps they do, perhaps they do but well past the point of diminishing returns for what you pay. That's for each owner to decide. You buy a more "cost effective" boat, well you get what you pay for. The first line of defense is knowledge, knowledge of how to operate it, knowledge of how to look after and repair it when it inevitably needs work. Once I redefined the idea of "performance" for a cruising boat, it was much easier to make my peace with the boat. when I cruise now I shamelessly motor sail for long periods, we stack all sorts of toys on the deck without regard to looking like hosers, we know exactly where we can go with the boat or not in our local cruising grounds and we wring the most out of the boat we can with what it is and we accept its other limitations for what they are. I may not win the race with this boat, but I certainly win at recreating with it. As for the quality? Well I've sailed tons of different boats and the truth is I think its put together quite well. I could pick over details of how things are done in places you cannot see, but this is a natural byproduct of mass production that I can accept. I'd never tolerate some of the details on a race boat, because weight. But the appointments are all pretty good and everything does what you would expect it to do when you expect it to do it. So again, I vote that the Bene is good value for the money paid.
  21. 6 points
    The basic SPRAY hull model was never known for good stability. This does not surprise me at all. What surprises me, given the number of these "replica" SPRAY hulls built by home builders, is that it has not happened more often. I often wonder why anyone would build a replica of a boat with such poor stability characteristics. That said, I feel bad for the owners. They must have loves that boat.
  22. 6 points
    I'm not trying to be mean at *all* here, but, you're really really reaching here. The Aero is a singlehanded race boat. In that category of boat, hull weight is an important factor. A lighter boat has numerous benefits when racing. Being lighter than the competitors boats is a significant advantage to a user of that type of product. I don't get why you keep saying 'well the Aero is really light, but RS didn't go back 20 years and make all their boats this light... so, they must be trying to confuse people. In a race boat, lightness matters. In a club owned plastic boat that can fit 1-3 kids... durability and purchase price matter a lot more. Since lightness is usually not cheap, nor generally as durable in club environments.... the manufacturer builds a different boat for a different use case. Lamborghini builds an SUV - it's not as light as their other cars. Serves a different market. Should they never mention the lightweight components of their regular cars, just because they also build a heavier model now? No one ever would suggest they do that. Can we drop this now?
  23. 6 points
    And here is the translation of the article! Sorry for the delay. It is actually a fairly basic description of the righting moment principle, nothing earth chattering for this forum crowd... " True or False: a trimaran is faster than a catamaran. We asked the question to the architect Vincent Lauriot-Prévost, world class subject matter expert.... « We have been asking ourselves this question for the past 30 years... I think that the dominance of the trimarans is first and foremost due to the nature of the races in France. It is mostly small crews or single handed races. Trimaran stability is more progressive. A catamaran has a very steep stability curve... And that's not all. At the time of the Formule 40, there was a minimum displacement of 1,800 kg and, weight being equal, a trimaran is faster than a catamaran, because you can build it wider and therefore get a higher righting moment. A catamaran structure is complex, the mast is compressed against a cross beam. The longer the beam, the more bending you have to fight, and the heavier the beam gets... But when you look at foiling multihulls, it is time to ask ourselves this question again. The righting moment can also be dynamic (see next section for details): with a trimaran, you can pull down on the central daggerboard on the main hull, and on a catamaran, you can pull down on the windward rudder, no need to use the large foil on the windward hull, the T rudder is plenty efficient enough. On an Ultim multihull for instance, you can easily generate 20 tons.meters of righting moment, if you pull 2 tons on the central daggerboard, the half width of the boat is more or less 10 meters. On a total righting moment of 150 tons, it's already pretty good. But on a catamaran, it is even better: by pulling down 2 tons on the windward rudder, the lever arm being 20 meters, you gain 40 ton.meters, not 20 ton.meters. Or you can gain as much as on a trimaran, but by pulling down only half. It is interesting, because it is like having "an extra gear on the engine": instead of letting go a bit the main sail traveler, you can tweak the foil angle of attack, and it might be easier to adjust a flap on a horizontal foil, than adjusting the position of the traveler. And once again, at the speeds we are sailing nowadays, with small foil surfaces like on the central daggerboard or the rudder, we get pretty quickly to 1.5 to 2 tons of vertical force, and we can gain close to 25% of the righting moment, which is huge. Vincent Lauriot-Prévost works hand in hand with the sailors and their teams to continue to optimize those sailboats performance. | ALEXIS COURCOUX/MACIF Then the next question is: which one of the two is lighter, the catamaran or the trimaran? It should be the catamaran... The idea is to have a light boat for light wind, when you do not need max righting moment, and you alleviate the lack of righting moment, compared to a trimaran, with a foil upwind, that adds dynamic righting moment. It should make a better boat in light wind, and just as good with stronger winds. In summary, the debate is opened once more, now that we have fully crewed races, with foils, and the possible to use dynamic righting moment. And if we look in the future, once the servo-controls for the foils are in place and authorized (until now, the Ultim Class 32/23 forbids them), we will have even more reasons to look at it again. And even for single handed races, whiy not? My opinion is that, for someone who just want to do the Jules Verne trophy, with a full crew and servo controls on the foils, since this is not forbidden for this record, the option of a catamaran really deserves to be assessed. Before foiling, the trimaran was always at an advantage over the catamaran, but with the foils, and dynamic righting moment, on can really reconsider En bref, le débat est rouvert dans la mesure où on refait des courses en équipage, avec des foils et un recours possible au RM dynamique. Et si on parle un peu d’avenir, dès lors que des systèmes d’asservissement des foils seront mis en place, et autorisés (jusqu’ici la classe Ultim 32/23 les interdit, ndlr), on sera d’autant plus incités à revoir notre copie, et même y compris pour le solitaire, pourquoi pas. À mon avis, pour quelqu’un qui voudrait juste faire le Jules Verne, puisque c’est de l’équipage et qu’il n’y a pas de limitation concernant l’asservissement, la question du catamaran mérite vraiment réflexion. Avant l’ère des foils, le trimaran avait toujours eu un avantage sur le cata, mais avec les foils et le RM dynamique, on peut se reposer la question. » Dynamic RM, what is that ? L’Imoca Charal drawn by the VPLP design office has very impressive foils. | GAUTHIER LEBEC – CHARAL « Righting Moment » in English is the righting lever arm length (we talk about "GZ") times the displacement of the boat. The righting moment lever arm is the horizontal distance between the center of buoyancy and the center of gravity of the boat. On a multihull, this righting moment lever arm is more or less equal to half the width of the boat, so the calculation is fairly easy. For instance, on a catamaran that is 6 meters wide, with a displacement of 1 ton, RM is 3 ton.meters. Let's move on to the dynamic RM. It is simply using the "lift" of a foil instead of the weight of the boat. On a multihull, you set this foil on the windward hull or an the central hull, and you give it such an angle of attack that it pulls downwards instead of lifting upwards. On a monohull, you set the foil on the leeside and this time, to create dynamic RM, instead of pulling down on the windward side, you lift upward on the leeside. "Dynamic RM is something new, that completely resets the game, notes Vincent Lauriot-Prévost. Both on multihulls and monohulls. By the way, this is what we did on Charal, it is a hull shape that has not much static righting moment, with a shape that is not very powerful. The power, we reach it with the foils. The foil rights up the boat very efficiently because it is positioned far enough on the leeside, therefore with a large enough righting moment lever arm. We have therefore designed Charal hull focused more on drag reduction than power generation criteria."
  24. 6 points
    Here is another picture from Farevela, https://farevela.net/2019/05/28/le-foto-del-my-song-sul-cargo-prima-dellincidente/ , which is a nice close up of the cradle, and strapping, while still in port at the look of it. I am a boy who has also spend some time in the industrie, have personally shipped a couple of smaller superyachts half way around the world, designed and had one of the cradles build, and joined one on the trips as well. I also own a. fast 39ft symbian, but don't ask me for more details on the saddle and straps on that one. OK, so obviously I know a little bit what I am talking about, and you know what, surprise, surprise: The shipping cradle failed!!! Or maybe, rather fell over??? If you can call that piece of shit, or two pieces of shit actually, a shipping cradle at all, as it doesn't seem to have any longitudinal strength (braces). Add to that absolute minimal strapping, in particular diagonal strapping both transverse and longitudinally. Wouldn't be surprised if the whole thing collapsed forward, in the first big wave the ship hit. I bet the captain tried to avoid rolling by taking the seas head on, under estimating the effect of pitching. A mitigating factor could have been that the lifting keel might have been sitting on the cradle (or deck), but it did not take the weight of the ship, like that is always the case with conventional keels. Makes a very big difference. So hopefully Farevela will come with more pictures, and also the inside scoop, as they are a pretty cool bunch.
  25. 6 points
    Yes, but if it blowing 40kts, with 6m seas, the rig is over the side and the steering is jammed and the helicopter crew say "we are leaving in 3 minutes with or without you and we will not be coming back" what would you do? I'm fairly certain I would be part of the orderly queue to get the hell out of there.

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