• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


Popular Content

Showing most liked content since 03/20/2017 in all areas

  1. 22 points
    Hardly hollow, they sailed within the rules, WOXI didn't. If WOXI had NOT been protested THEIR's would have been the hollow AND undeserved victory. I really don't get the concept that winning by breaking the rules is cool and that winning by exercising your rights under the rules is not cool? No wonder our sport is not booming. SS
  2. 19 points
    We don't normally comment here, although we like to see what you think: The routing software doesn't have an 'I don't want to break my boat feature', so we just put in that dummy zone to illustrate a possible less risky route to the North. The guys can go where they want, providing they stay out of the ice exclusion zone. I hope you are enjoying the Race Phil
  3. 18 points
  4. 17 points
    Sure, there are some nice safe-for-special-widdle-snowflakes sailing web sites. On some of them, you can get decent advice from some real sailors, and of course the carefully vetted comments of armchair admirals. But if you actually read this thread for content, you'll find that you've already gotten some real advice Here on Sailing Anarchy, you get guys who have sailed around the world, guys who have sailed in world championships, sailmakers, delivery skippers. naval architects, guys who daysail/race around buoys at their home club; and there are a armchair sailors mixed in but they tend to out themselves with not knowing stuff that real sailors know. You get somebody posting a picture "I found this old Polaroid in a drawer from summer vacation in the early 1970s, what kind of boat is that" and not only will a dozen guys know what kind of boat it is, the guy who was sailing that boat that day chimes in. To quote on of the greatest SA'ers, "this isn't Sailing Nicey-Nice." It's a tough environment for bullshitters. It's a tough environment for thin-skinned wanna-bees. It's often funny as shit though. Your nigger comment was not funny. If you actually want to learn, swallow some pride and pull up a chair. If not, go fuck yourself. If you ever actually sail offshore, you'll find that the sea is less forgiving than we are. FB- Doug
  5. 15 points
    I built and sold Optimists for 20 years. They are simultaneously the best and worst boats in the world. On the good side, they are absolutely the best boat to sit 5 year olds inside and start them on the journey of going out and coming back. Unlike so many other boat, the Opitimist seems to like children. It takes care of them lie a good dog. The first thing a kid does is sit down in the back corner and pull the stick towards him. This starts a circle of tubes and tacks and some panic in our youngster, but unlike almost every other boat, it doesn't llead to an immediate capsize with the boat on top. This is due to four things, the low rig, the short daggerboard and the wide hard- chine of the bottom and generous freeboard. I don't know how much actual study Clark Mills did for this design, or whether he just thought it up around the optimal use of plywood, but he got it spot on. As the boat heels, there is enough buoyancy in the sides and chimes to pick the daggerboard almost clear of the water without the gunwales going under and the boat swamping. The boat skids to leeward instead of capsizing, and the rig is low enough to not compound the problem. So our lovely child gets a little spooked, and has stop screaming long enough to learn that you hold the stick in the middle when you want to go straight. Lesson One. All the little knots are also good for learning about taking care of your boat. Do it wrong, and it matters, but not enough to kill you. Then some brain box says we ought to race the little fuckers and everything goes to shit. Out nice little adventures turns into dodgeball and the most aggressive bully's win. The kids that will aim their boats anywhere and yell at others to get out of the way or they will hit them and throw them out of the race. Perversely, we tell these bully's that they are great sailors and give them trophies. The Moms and Dads in the rest of the fleet, who probably really like sailing and really want their kids to like it to, do what all parents do. They don't call the winners dickheads, but tell their kids to keep at it and try harder. They back this up by looking for coaches who can help their child compete, and they make sure that their child has all the tools and is not being disadvantaged because of something they did or didn't buy. They are told all sorts of crap.... Langes are lighter in the ends....McLaughlin uses uncrimped knitted fabric for better torsional stiffness.... you have to have 7000 series aluminum masts....our new sail is so much faster. The coaches are all former bullies, so you can guess what happens, by 12 years old most of the kids have been convinced that they suck at sailing. By this age they have also become convinced that they suck at soccer, baseball, tennis, swimming, rugby, basketball and indoor lacrosse. They fear they will suck at everything in life, and they haven't even reached puberty and dealt with pimples. Is it any wonder they don't stick around? The parents are exhausted and feel like they have been raped. The promise never to buy their kid another boat. If they continue to sail, they can use the Club 420s, or crew on someone else's yacht. They can feel OK because they know enough about sailing to talk to a sailing boss, or go for a day sail on a clients yacht without calling a sail a sheet. My kids all sailed used of rejected boats with left over sails and equipment. In part this was driven by my reluctance to have the "Sons of Vanguard" sailing around in pristine equipment and either being perceived as entitled pricks or actually acting like entitled pricks. We only raced on Narragansett Bay and avoided the whole traveling bit. I relented when the North Americans were going to be held on the Bay, and bought them "standard" equipment. Their results were better sailing new boats than sailing the beaters, so after all, equipment helps. In the US we are obsessed with prodigy. We want to be the first ones to see a great one. As part of our outsourcing of parenting to dozens of service providers ( like coaches, music and dance instructors, academic enrichment etc) we inevitably hope that our kids show up at the top of something. Sailing is one sport where you don't have to be great at it when you are 8 to be very good at it when you are 30. So the very competive nature of the Optimist class actually works in opposition to the goal of building the sport of competitive sailing. I couldn't do anything about it then, and I don't think we could do anything about it now. I like the approach that Nevin Sayre has charted with the BIC open. I don't think much of the boat design, but the unregatta that emphasizes skill building and fun seems like a healthy alternative. SHC
  6. 15 points
    Forgive me if I'm repeating, I only went back a couple of pages & people were busy measuring themselves so I gave up.
  7. 15 points
    Hm. I should write an article about how dangerous the wet boats are and how we now will talk about wether men are up for these conditions....
  8. 15 points
    There really are some stupid subjective, ingnorantly written or emotionally charged comments here. OK -Time to put this to bed... 1. The incident - A poorly executed leebow? Hesitation during a cross? Hesitation in a slam dunk? Poor on board comms between the after guard? Who knows? Who cares? We've all been there. People make mistakes. Get over it. 2 The rules - Rule 13, simple. Only Rules 13, 14 and rule 16.1 are considered. The jury concluded that LDVC did not change course, so 16.1 can be ruled out. LDVC acted to avoid contact, and there was no collision, so rule 14 out.They concluded that LDVC had to take action to avoid while WOXI was tacking. That's all. No point in discussing rule 10 now. That expired when WOXI passed HTW. No point in discussing rule 15. That only occurs after WOXI reached close-hauled. No point in discussing 16.2. At no time was WOXI sailing to pass astern of LDVC. 3. Not taking a penalty - That is the right of any boat. If they believe that they did not break a rule, or were not sure because it was close (and judging by this discussion it was), then they have a right to take their chances in the protest room. This does not represent poor sportsmanship or even foolishness. It is in the rules for them to do. Both parties (including WOXI agree that it was close, with WOXI crew proposing a 50/50 situation). If they knew they had broken a rule, then yes, we could question sportsmanship. In this case, no. Move along. In reflection, they may have misjudged how close it was, and kick themselves for that. We may all have acted differently. It probably was a poor risk/reward judgement. However, at the time, her decision to continue was justified and within the rules and principals of sportsmanship, since they thought they had not broken a rule, or were not convinced enough to take a penalty at the time. Her right to make that call. 4 The Protest - Nothing wrong with LDVC's decision to take this to the room. It is a fundimental principal of all competitors to enforce the rules. That's all she did. Not doing that is possibly more destructive to the sport. Furthermore, if you believe in the rules and that they are a part of the sport, then you should fully support her decision to go ahead (for whatever motives - win, principals, morals, sponsor pressure, etc...) with the protest. Both boats agreed to be bound by the rules; those rules include the protest and penalty procedure. 5. The Time Penalty - Of course it needs to be more than 5 minutes in order to be a penalty! Duh! The penalty must be in line with the penalty system of the event. In the SIs for this event specify penalties ranging from 5 minutes minimum to DSQ. In between those extremes are 20% for not submitting a declaration, 30% for an offshore breach of Part 2 and OCS, 40% as maximum time penalty, and then DSQ for the most heinous of crimes. It stands to reason that the time penalty for an inshore breach of Part 2 should be somewhere between not submitting a declaration on time, and the offshore Part 2. So 20-30% of position in her division. That's what the jury did. Her time penalty worsened her IRC Div 0 position by about 20-30% of all the IRC Div 0 boats. Discretionary Penalties (DPs) are becoming more popular. There is even a new scoring code for it. The principal suggests that not all rule breaches are the same. That seems sensible. Good practice is still being developed. If DP is to be used, Race Organisers and Juries need to have a clear penalty structure for DPs, which is fair and well known. Many events already have one, which they publish to competitors. In this S2H, the SIs were a little ambiguous. Maybe more structure and guidance could be given on the penalty system. 6. Winning in the room - WTF? No one has won in the room. The incident took place on the water in this case. Those who think that this is sea-lawyering or 'winning in the room' are normally the ones who either don't know all the rules or don't fully respect the rules. If they did, they would know that in this sport, there is no way to resolve some on-the-water conflicts, other than going to the room. They would know that the rules are designed to give competitors the chance to exonerate OR to have the decision reached by an independent panel. They would know that not enforcing the rules (including the 'Oh, forget about it!' approach) is not good for the sport. 7. WOXI's Elapsed Time - Her RACE Elapsed Time is the time she took in this 'event/race/competition'. In this race it was 01:09:15:24. That is 33 minutes behind LDVC. There is NO OTHER elapsed time. End Of. 8. Race Record - Read it carefully...the 'RACE' record. That is a record set during an edition of Sydney to Hobart Race. The race record is only held by a boat who has sailed the course correctly, and complied with the rules or taken penalties under the rules for any breaches made during the race. WOXI did not break any race record this year. Unlucky. LDVC did. 9. 'The Fastest Crossing Between Sydney and Hobart' - If someone wants to go and make a seperate unrelated trophy for 'The Fastest Crossing Between Sydney and Hobart', then go ahead and give it to WOXI! Well done her. See how long it lasts though, before people abuse that trophy's lack of moderation. The organised S2H race event is the moderator of that record for a reason. It sets bounds within we can be comfortable that a boat has acheived that feat fairly and measurably. In which case WOXI did not gain any known record. 10. The messages this sends to kids and non-sailors - That sailing is a complex sport. That even the best make mistakes. That if you break a rule you may (and should) be penalised. That even long races can be so close that a single penalty can make the difference between winning and losing. 11. WOXI attitude after the decision? - Whatever! Of course they will be disappointed! They thought they were right! Someone always goes away dissatisfied after a hearing. Moral win? Fine; let them enjoy the fact that they sailed very fast, if that is what they want to measure their success by. Let's face it, they did sail fast and well. Just from the 'race' point of view they did not beat LDVC (see #7). Nothing in that interview suggested WOXI were not accepting the decision. That's about it. Well done to LDVC. Well done to Ichi Ban and all the others who won divisions, got on the podium or achieved a personal best.
  9. 15 points
    WHICH CANDLE FOR WOMEN HAS DAWN LIT? Anyone who believes the Scallywag fiasco can be properly dealt with as a Rule 69 infraction in its current form and with no major consequences in my opinion are living in la-la-land. Very simply Dawn Riley has now moved the goal posts for matters that Rule 69 was intended to capture. In simplistic terms it was cheating on the race course and fights in the Club carpark etc where, from a public perspective, that sort of conduct brought the sport into disrepute. The definition of conduct in Rule 69 has now been watered down to capture a wider range of unspecified activities and therefore penalties. It is not drafted nor was it invisaged it would govern interpersonal workplace conduct. Dawn has fired the first salvo towards having Rule 69 cover "gender equality and mutual respect" out on the race course, and in this case putting aside the existance of video, outside the sight and knowledge of the public who are thousands of miles away. This is now irrefutabley an issue of workplace conduct where professional crews are concerned, no matter what coloured glasses you put on. Now generally speaking proceedings relating to workplace conduct in most western countries involve laws and regulations as well as policies at the place of employ. These enshrine the rights of those involved and amoungst other things, prescribe the various levels of misconduct to give guidance to determining procedual outcomes, whether they be for employees, employers and those governing judicial or tribunal systems in place. What we have now is two professional sailors having to defend their conduct in the workplace and therefore their livelehood by a system that didn't exist when they stepped on board and one that has no regulatory framework to provide any guideance on how they should have acted, are judged and treated. Any thoughts that this absence of a formal framework doesn't let anyone automaticaly off the hook, is pure fantasy. The absence of the OBR being captured by these proceedings, and a RO employee responsible for capturing, editing and uploading media material into the public domain, independent of the team, is worrying. Many posters have made the comment these people are professionals and should act accordingly which is fair comment. What is missing is everyone is forgetting that these professionals are now being asked to step on board to their workplace and for their conduct to be judged accordingly, but leaving ashore all the mechanisms and procedures that govern and decide that conduct when working ashore. That is madness to the extreme by any objective assessment. For the most part this thread and the FP meanderings of Handcock have been disecting a piece of video and framing their views accordingly. It might suprise some but I haven't even watched it. I haven't watched any of Scallywags uploads, didn't see why this was any different as Witts style is not my cup of tea. Having said that, I'm a supporter if nothing else of Witt because here is an Australian who has put together a team, albeit under a different flag. No-one else from Oz has been able to do that in this event in over 50 years since it started, which the more you think about it, is now beyond weird. As you have gathered my interest has been about the ramifications of what Dawn Riley has done. Interestingly she was at the Yacht Racing Forum in Denmark the weekend before last, and around the time she pushed the 69er button. I would be interested if any wise heads there, which there were many, would have expressed reservations about her intended actions? My view is she should have prosecuted her agenda of mutual respect and gender equality direct with VOR the moment they announced a mixed crew format. That could have then seen the implemention of a simple and transparent policy framework that all of the stakeholders were happy with. She then could of injected WS and other RO's over time with the same winning formula. The net result would have been everyone from crews to sponsors would have had a clear understanding of what was expected and the ramifications attached to breeching those workplace policy(s). Those enforcing it and adjudicating breaches would have a prescribed framework to judge the severity of any misconduct and to determine a punitive response. It is reasonable to assume with such a policy framework in place, this fiasco would never have occured. The sad fact is Dawn didn't do this but chose to throw a grenade mid race at a targeted event to create maximum impact and where one key individual involved placed a target on his back for all to see, well before the race started. I have been reluctant to broach the question to date, but was that grenade directed at also maximising her personel exposure over and above looking to improve gender equality and respect? I have difficulty believing otherwise in the absence of any explanation behind her actions. This is particularly in light of the work she has put into this sphere of endeavour and the standing afforded her public position, yet doing nothing about it in terms of this event beforehand. I believe the outcome of tomorrow's WAS Jury Hearing cannot be anything other than Witt and Hayles being exonerated with maybe a warning. Anything other than that, not only would it be grossly inequitable to be judged on non-existent workplace conduct criteria, but those judging them likewise have nothing at their disposal or within their spheres of expertise to be even judging them in the first place. Irrespective whether World Sailing close this loophole of Rule 69 suddenly being bastardised to govern workplace conduct or not, RO's will have to. The genie has been let out of the bottle and unfortunately it won't occur in a measured and collaborative way, but now be a policy framework stitched together on the run. If they don't do this Sponsors won't touch a mixed gender event where their employees and in turn even themselves are placed at risk. Thinking professional sailors will think twice about signing up for a mixed gender event without an appropriate mechanism to afford them protection in their place of employ. It won't stop at just professional events but spread to amateur world as how can you seperate the two anymore where the overarching rules of the sport govern both professionals and amateurs equally and alike. It is this arena which should be of most concern as it is the nursery for all sailors male and female. Improving the opportunities for women sailors have enough roadblocks as it is. They need another one that is hastily constructed and erected, without proper consultation like a hole in the head. I realise my views may not be supported by some knee jerkers, but if they think it through like Dawn Riley should have, then my hope is they see more pain than joy emanating from this unfortunate episode. Finally a quick look wearing the hat of the owner of Team Scallywag. Looking at the makeup of the WS Jury deciding what is effectively a gender equality and mutual respect issue in the workplace and see that it is a seven (7) person panel comprising solely sailing rule experts, with one (1) women, I would be looking on with dismay and like anyone, no matter which side of Dawn's fence they sit. This adjudication response is absurd. If WS doesn't get it, if the RO doesn't get it, then how are owners and sponsors who put up the money and sailors who participate supposed to understand what those that govern don't understand? If I was Seng Huang Lee and Sun Hung Kai & Co my response would be to make it known in Cape Town, Lisbon and Gothenburg and for the reasons I have outlined above, that anything other than a slap on the wrist and an undertaking from the RO to put in place procedures that I as an owner and my people can understand and rely upon; "then we are leaving here on the first plane Friday and reserving my rights to recover every dollar outlayed towards this Micky Mouse event". So to conclude has Dawn lit the brightly glowing candle for "gender equality and respect"? Or is it the smokey spluttering one of "polarisation and paranoia"? To make that judgement we will probably have to keep an eye on the "Riley Musto Index", or sales volumes over time for womens offshore gear. The Sparrow.
  10. 15 points
    There are 2 audio files within 24 hours. The link above is for the second one. The first one is the emotional one and is here. This is just after he passed Cape Horn, and this is the one you can feel he has teary eyes. Still in French. So as a bonus, here is a script of both. The first one: François Gabart speaking: 00:00 "It's François, on the trimaran MACIF. It is 3:30 PM... 2:30 PM. I passed Cape Horn longitude about 2 hours ago. It's a little bit hard to... I have a hard time to realize it actually. I have a hard time to talk, and to talk about it, to make a video about it, because it is overwhelming... I have a hard time to realize it. It is just a line on the computer screen. I did not see the rock. It is far up North. It is a little bit unreal." 00:40 "I will not hide to you that I am happy; very happy. Never would I have even dreamed to arrive at Cape Horn with this time... Everything is possible. You should never refrain your craziest dreams, because sometimes, they become real! It would be a pity!" 01:00 "So when I passed the line, it was funny because the wind was going down; I was set up with one reef and J2, so I had to shake a reef. So I passed the Cape Horn line, I turned on the music full blast in the cockpit and I started my maneuver to shake the reef.... It was great. At the beginning, I was all pumped up with the music; it was magic. But actually, I could not finish the maneuver without crying" 01:45 "I finished the maneuver.... crying... It was so good.... It is such a relief to be here. It was great... It was completely surreal. That's why I was thinking I was dreaming: I had sunny sky! So I finish the maneuver; I take a pause. I get out to take a bit of fresh air. It has been a long time since I could get out of the boat like this. It is the first time I have full main for the past 15 days. It is the first time in a long time that I can keep the doors of the cockpit open to take advantage of the weather outside." 02:20 "And I had an albatross show! Let me tell you! It was.... I had ten albatrosses following the boat. It was.... I felt that... That's where I told myself... It is greater that the rational and Cartesian within me... They were there...." 02:45 "It is funny how you feel that you are changing worlds... Even if I do not see land, even if I am still on port tack, you still feel you are getting closer to civilization. I do not see the Rock, but I am in the wind shadow of South America. And in the winds coming from there... well, I am not going to say that I can feel land, because it is not true, but you can still feel that you are sheltered by something." 03:22 "You are changing oceans, you are starting a new episode. It's funny how you get closer to humanity. Half an hour after passing Cape Horn, I heard someone on VHF. I do not know exactly where, but still ! I have not had someone on VHF for the past 3 weeks. And now, I am going to cross a boat coming back from Antarctica! He is heading 350. It is crazy, because we could have been 15 miles apart, but actually, we are on a collision route! In 15 minutes, I am going to sail by another boat; and it feels good! You are felling closer to civilization." 04:15 "So now, the Atlantic Ocean seems rather favorable. It is going to be rough, but fast. At least for the first 2 or 3 days. It's excellent news, but I will have to be careful. In these strong winds, it is going to be fast, but well.... I am rather happy; it is better than no wind! It will be fast, with some heavy seas. I will have to take care of the boat, trying to make it surf smoothly... If all goes well, I should arrive in 2 or 3 days at the northern end of Argentina and there will be a transition zone to manage." 04:59 Alarm beeping... cleat snapping... 05:00 "we have 17 degrees of heel, I just sheeted out a bit.. Sooo... after that some transition zone offshore Brazil... where I hope that everything will be for the best so I can get to warmer latitudes, towards the Equator". The Second one: 00:00 "The emotions I have since the start of the RTW are just extraordinary and very intense. With fatigue and time passing by, they surface more easily. The emotions while passing the Cape Horn, I got a lot of them, just like sailing through out the Southern Ocean; it is beautiful, it is life; it is coming out of your guts. This is also why I come here, these very intense pieces of life." 00:30 "I do not know how to explain it; for sure the current performance is part of it, it helps; if I were 10 days behind the record, it would not be the same thing. But actually, the relief of leaving the Southern Ocean would have been even stronger in that case. I am very proud of what I have done so far, but there is also a sense of relief, a sense of release, and hope as well, because once you pass Cape Horn, you look up North, and you know that you have never been so close to the finish line. All of that makes unique moments." 01:05 "What I see ahead is pretty good: some strong wind for about 36 hours, which will allow me to go fast in a NNE direction, in an area where it is not always easy to go fast. If you look at Thomas' record or even previous ones, sometimes this zone is pretty locked up... So I am lucky to be fast for the next 36 hours. I will have to be careful though; the wind is already strong, and the sea state is not so good. It is not long swells like in the Southern Ocean, but more like South of Australia, deep and short; boat breaking. I will have to continue going fast, but still preserve the boat and the body. That's the game plan." 01:50 "Then I will sail East of a high pressure system, it will be the first ridge to sail through. A no wind zone at about the latitude of Northern Argentina. I have to go through this zone to catch up the Trade Winds. It will be a bit unsteady first, but more or less an East and then South East wind that will allow me to go all the way to the Equator." 02:15 "I knew very well when I start this record attempt that I would be all alone in the deep southern ocean. Once there, you have no other option than make the boat go fast. I was wondering while going South in the Atlantic Ocean, or even in some places at the beginning of the Indian ocean, when you are not too far from some islands that could be a rescue point, how I would behave once in the Pacific Ocean. And as time passes by, you show to yourself and to your boat, you evolve, you do not completely realize the distances, the remoteness, even if you do not do the same things in the same way in the South Pacific, when you are more than 1000 miles from any external assistance. You are careful, you are twice as cautious, you do not try something that you would potentially try in the bay of Port-la-Forêt, where if something breaks, it is not immediately serious for yourself... I know that in these areas, if I have some serious breakage, it can very quickly turn sour. You keep that in mind and you are more careful. At the same time, you try not to linger too much in this area... and you try to go as fast as possible with the flow! It is the approach I had..."
  11. 15 points
    If anyone wants to play with more weather layers then: https://gis.ee/vor/
  12. 14 points
    I spent a bit of time having a look at the Hong Hong Marine Accident Investigation and Shipping Security Policy Branch site. They provide access to reports and statistics of accidents here. Since they investigate accidents of all HK registered vessels there are accidents outside HK waters as well. But most seem to be HK waters accidents. Like accident investigations elsewhere, they don't lay blame, and act to find facts, contributory factors, and make recommendations. Apportion of blame is for courts. It seems that most incidents do not make it to court. In general one would expect that the public prosecutor would need to be satisfied that there was a good chance criminal negligence was involved in order to lay charges, or that another party wanted to take civil action for damages. If either of these happened the MAISSPB report might come into play, although this is not a given. Some countries disallow reports being used in actions. I don't know about HK. Reports of incidents seem to take about a year to complete. Looking at a few collisions between fishing vessels and other vessels the conclusions from the investigation are pretty repetitive. Mostly they conclude that both boats failed to keep adequate lookout and thus breached the COLREGS. In most respects this is hard to duck. The investigations look at the situation and conclude that no matter what the circumstances (which might include a storm, rain, fog) both boats should have adapted to the conditions and the accident should have been avoidable. For instance, from The collision between the Hong Kong registered vessel “Shin Chun” and the Taiwanese fishing vessel on the approaching road of Kaohsiung, Taiwan on 29 February 2016 The investigation found that the main contributory factors of the accident were the failure of both vessels to maintain a proper look-out in compliance with the requirements of rule 5 of COLREGS (Look-out). Consequently, both vessels did not realize the imminent risk of collision before the collision. The fishing vessel, being the give-way vessel in a cross situation, did not take any action to avoid the collision. The container vessel, being the stand-on vessel in a crossing situation, did not take her own action to avoid collision in an ample time while the give-way vessel did not take proper avoiding action. Or this report, where a fishing vessel hit a smaller pleasure craft with loss of life. Most reports have a very similar tone and conclusions. Mostly I think this gives us a clue about what the investigation's conclusions will look like.
  13. 14 points
    This whole mess sucks. I fully respect the crew of Vestas, in this iteration and as Alvimedica they have proven themselves as totally competent and responsible seafarers. Thousands of miles without incident, when others were capsizing, running aground, breaking shit, dropping sails overboard and getting injured, Enright and Towhill competed and arrived without drama or needing repairs. I would not jump to the conclusion that they are negligent bozos, in fact of all the crews in this race, I would assume the opposite. This must have been an extraordinary situation. The damage to Vestas 11th Hour Racing was not trivial, yet they remained on station and assisted in the rescue. That's a pretty big hole in the bow of a boat and hanging around for several hours with a seaway running takes some courage. A bad situation, but I think Mark and the boys acquitted themselves with honor, which is the best you can hope for. The Chinese captain was probably completely baffled by a sailing vessel closing on him at 18 to 20 knots, probably from an unexpected direction. Most of the traffic around busy ports is in outbound and inbound lanes and is comparatively slow moving. This provides a great deal of predictability. A racing sailboat will come from a different angle and will change heading randomly ( at least to a non sailing observer.). A Volvo 65 is more like a flying saucer than any boat he has probably ever seen, it closed on him faster than he could believe and ran right over him. If he had gear out, his maneuverability was probably limited. "Here I am fishing where I usually fish, the way I usually fish. I'm just trying to do my fucking job and this space ship shows up out of nowhere , runs right the fuck over us, sinks my boat and kills one of my crew. What the fuck?" Hindsight is 20:20. But some of this could have been thought through. What value does an after midnight in port finish provide? During daylight it would be nice, but at 0dark30? My thought is that you should " finish racing" at the point where ships take on pilots, and have the race boats proceed to the dock under port control. You could require that they arrive in the order of their rank so all the spectacle is preserved...... but you don't have sportsmen competing where others are just going about their day : which is kind of like playing a football game in a crowded mall at Christmas time. SHC
  14. 14 points
    Seriously. Not like Comanche surprised them with a protest when they got to Hobart. That flag went up in Sydney immediately after. Don't blame Spithill for being desperate to win. Blame your afterguard for being stupid twice AND arrogant. Spithill had no way of knowing if Comanche or WOXI would finish first when he protested. And it didn't matter. Break the rules, do your turns. Doesn't matter if you finish first, last or in between.
  15. 14 points
    So with the smoke starting to clear I thought it appropriate to reveal our feelings with regard to the above Rule 69 hand grenade we were willing to pull the pin on pending a IJ outcome. That outcome is to hand now with WOXI being stripped of its title. This was a Plan B in the event the IJ didn't rule accordingly commensurate with the protest and in a open and transparent manner. Further to the above we decided to capture more reciepants of a 3rd party Rule 69 Protest. World Sailing by their own amendments widened our standing, so we took advantage of it to include every party including Australian Sailing, the CYCA, the Jury and Team WOXI itself. The latter made us nervous but not enough to leave them out. On account of tomorrow being the last working day before the last boat finished and being time barred, drafts of all documents were complete. That was a big undertaking alone. The actual outcome now renders our Plan B to history, but our feelings aren't what you think. Our first reaction was not one of euphoria with the IJ ruling, but one of feeling great sadness for the WOXI team and their individuals. Their investment and commitment over years to the sport with results many just pray for, including this race (maybe their last) where they had the fastest boat on the course have, by their own hand been now blown up. I for one was very impressed WOXI used an ability to drive at times up 10 degrees deeper than Comanche and that covered for things like sail damage etc. So all we are left now is to dwell upon our motivation for being ready to drop a Rule 69 grenade on world sailing and what may transpire after pulling the pin. To be frank we were scared knowing after pulling the pin, we appreciated we had no control over anything after doing that. That aside we know our motivation for being willing to drop a grenade is intact and now strengthened by the IJ's ruling I think. Hypotheticaly two kids will trundle their respective Optis down the ramp this weekend. One will be a Club shitter with maybe a socio/economically challenged family supporting their kid to follow his sailing dream. The other will have the newest gear, the kid will be wearing sunglasses that cost more than a African nations GDP and his boat lives at home in a humidifier container. His helicopter father BTW drives the RO insane when he is not overseas on a business trip with his secretary in tow. After today's decision the disadvantaged kid simply looks at the TV news about the S2H and says Dad; "It doesn't matter how much money one has, how powerful they think they are, the rules are the rules aren't they?" Dad sipping on a beer simply says "Yep". Today's decision to strip WOXI advanced sailing far more than many think.
  16. 14 points
    Did my best. Not allowed to stream anything with "moving images" at all once the exclusion zone is in place which is why I can only do audio. Merry Christmas all - will put all the interviews up individually today.
  17. 13 points
    I can honestly say I have no knowledge of the crew being detained. Likely the authorities will want statements as someone has died but which authorities? The boat was not in HK waters but Guangdong waters. I hope those who read what I write realise I will never pillory anyone unnecessarily and will not write either to deliberately disadvantage someone who doesn't deserve it nor kick someone when they are down. If I sometimes know something that I have been requested not po pass on or make public then I will respect those sources - ALWAYS. Sorry guys In this case it doesn't really matter who is culpable, Vestas 11th Hour Racing have been involved in an incident where someone has died. These guys are not medics, first responders or soldiers, it is not an everyday occurrence for them. They will clearly be exhausted and in shock and I believe they should be given some space. Anyway, said my piece. SS
  18. 13 points
    VOR and Volvo aren't helping themselves any and there would be a lot less speculation if there wasn't this media blackout. Only showing smiling finishers while ignoring a tragedy is a piss poor response.
  19. 13 points
    SO, from my perspective, I am gutted they stopped at the transition zone. Brunel had the MHO, TTTOP the J0, VestasJ0, Scally MHO, Akzo MHO. Mapfre adn DFRT were out in front with the J0, though DFRT took a long time to choose to go to that. Brunel pushed high whenever possible and got in to be the closest to the shore. Akzo did the opposite trying to get separation to get through to leeward. When the fleet got to the new breeze there had been a few auto-gybes. All teams did well to keep their boats rolling, but Brunel, TTTOP and Vestas did the best being the most inshore. They reached the new breeze as they left Camps Bay, Brunel first into it and to windward, then Mapfre, Vestas and TTTOP all together, DFRT and Scally a little further back. They all kept the J2 up and went straight to that. Within 5 minutes Brunel and TTTOP were reefed, at which point I had to turn around and head home...with a quick stop to watch a couple of Southern Right Whales! 30 ft from the RIB. Akzo going to leeward lost out massively getting to the new breeze and were easily two miles behind as the leaders fetched across Haut Bay. Amazing stopover, now time for a flight back to the snow.
  20. 12 points
  21. 12 points
    Is there a special places where all these trolls and new posters hide while waiting for things such as this? The last 5-6 pages have displayed some disgusting behaviour, clamouring for information before anything has been clarified, insinuating guilt, on various parties, bitching and arguing with each...etc, etc. It’s like a bunch of people at a train wreck trying to take photographs, surmising what’s happened before the bodies and wreckage have been moved, fucking disgusting!!
  22. 12 points
    I was asleep when this happened, and woke to a backlog of messages that have taken rather a while to crawl through. So... Why the heck is everyone treating this like a criminal/murder investigation. It is an accident. You don't detain people involved in accidents. You might interview them asap to get an early understanding whilst things are fresh in people's minds, but you don't put them in gaol. That requires you are charging them with a crime. The fact that there have been a few very highly publicised marine accidents where the skipper has been found criminally negligent does not mean every marine accident is a crime with the prospect of people spending time in the Big House. And the trial takes place months even years after the event. But any accident involving a death gets treated very seriously, and very well defined and developed protocols swing into place. As has been noted more than a few times, HK is no third world hick town. The only complicating factor is (quite clearly) the relationship with the mainland. But the legal and administrative formalities will be well understood. Given HK's history the parallels with the UK's way of managing such things is likely to be significant. Accident Investigation, Coroner, with the coroner maybe making recommendations for prosecution. I would guess that the key question for those involved will be one of criminal negligence (or whatever the equivalent is.) But this is a very long way down the track. If the skipper of V11 at the time was drunk it might be a different matter. But negligence, and especially criminal negligence, is a pretty high bar. Nobody here knows the details, indeed nobody on the planet does ATM. There is a big difference between a really unfortunate accident where someone dies, and an accident where someone has been behaving in a negligent manner to the point where prosecution is warranted. In the US we observe a culture where there is always someone at fault. Mostly it seems fuelled by a litigious society and no-win no-fee ambulance chasing lawyers. In the civilised world we don't go looking for someone to dump on every time something goes wrong. And we don't assume ab-initio that there is someone to blame when accidents occur.
  23. 12 points
    The problem is not so much poor charting as some charts locally NOT drawn to the WGS84 Datum ( they were last properly surveyed WAY BEOFRE satellites were in the sky) and of course GPS is universally to that standard unless manually programmed. This datum difference was largely responsible for one of the Clipper boats piling onto an island in either Indonesia area or Philippines (I can't remember). They were, I understand) using the plotter (on WGS84) while the paper charts had a warning printed that the datum as 1 mile out and they sailed straight onto the island. It is, at least partly, for this reason that most plotter and/or software have that "on your own head' warning when you switch them on. For anyone interested in the history of charting by the ROYAL NAVY (it's never properly called the 'British Navy') there is an excellent autobiography of Rear Admiral G.S. Ritchie called "No Day Too Long". When he joined the Admiralty Hydrography Department it was all done by triangulation and manual sights (and often still with lead line). By the time he retired as "The Hydrographer of the Royal Navy" (and went on to spend 10 years as Chairman of the Directing Committee of the International Hydrographic Bureau) it was all GPS. His son in law, who also retired as an RN '4 ringer' was one of my best sailing buddies back in the UK. The book is an excellent read and Admiral Ritchie was a wonderful and gracious man who I am honoured to have met on several occasions as he lived virtually down the road from my parents - sadly many years ago now. As an interesting aside he was the hydrographer on board HMS Challenger when she recorded the depth of the deepest ocean, Challenger Deep named for the ship that discovered it. Anyway, at least Witty managed to avoid a 'Vestas Moment'. SS
  24. 12 points
    I just tried it in English... Quite funny in some cases. The YouTube ear mismatches "Grand-voile" (mainsail) with "envol" (take-off) because it sounds almost the same... Also, he is talking about the state of the sea "l'état de la mer". But in French: Mer = Sea and Mère = Mother (Mer and Mère have the exact same pronunciation) so the auto generated English sub-titles talk about take-off and mothers... Now if you prefer that, let me know, and I'll stop translating...
  25. 11 points
    I think this idea of stealth mode preventing us from seeing the positions has just reached its use by date. It has totally wrecked the whole point of a live tracker - we can't see the single most important battle of the race, and have been reduced to a situation that is actually worse than the normal 6 hour updates. We will find out the outcome well past any sort timeliness.
  26. 11 points
    Those white northern Europeans don't want to immigrate to a shithole country where there is no universal healthcare and religious fanatics who are armed to the teeth.
  27. 11 points
    Morning all--catching up. Lightning strike! Anyway, just saw this. Another almost unintended consequence of drones
  28. 11 points
    The real winner of this race was the International Jury who upheld the rules, clearly stating on the world stage, that no one is beneath the rules. Something sorely lacking in many parts of the world.
  29. 11 points
    I've come to the conclusion that you are just a troll, nobody can be this stupid...
  30. 11 points
    Great to see that rules exist for everyone!
  31. 11 points
    This is fantastic armchair judging by the uninformed. If you want to learn the rules better, read World Sailing Case 50. It discusses this scenario and talks about Starboard having a "reasonable apprehension of collision". Given the speed, size of boats, sea state, etc., if you were helming Comanche, you would certainly have a reasonable apprehension of collision and you would alter course so as to not breach RRS 14. Comanche's argument for dipping their bow slightly (if they did so at all) was that they were trying to avoid a collision in the event WOXI did not tack. When it was clear that WOXI was tacking, the only way to avoid was to head up. The word arrogant seems most appropriate for the actions by WOXI during the incident, and the arrogance continues with all of the "we won, we are so great" stuff in the interviews and on the WOXI Facebook page. It is not uncommon for SOME (but not all) pro sailors to believe they are above the rules, or as MR stated in the interview, it was not a "blatant infringement". If you read between the lines there, he is not denying that it was an infringement. My guess is that the "rules experts" aboard WOXI may have misread the SIs, thinking that they would only get a 5 minute penalty if ruled they broke a rule. If the IJ rules in favor of Comanche, a time penalty of less than 27 minutes is no penalty at all. IMHO, the time penalty should be enough to drop them back to 3rd or 4th in Line Honors.
  32. 11 points
    The ones who commit a foul, don't do their turns, and force the fouled boat to protest, lose my respect. Doesn't matter if they win or not.
  33. 11 points
    Sorry to disappoint but I haven't bumped this post to reveal the idententies of the IJ. As far as I can see they are people looking to make a contribution to our sport and despite my quip above, with some self sacrifice.Their ability is irrelevant as amongst other things their decision cannot be appealed as I pointed out above. What is apparent to anyone unless they are stupid WOXI won the battle on the water. What I did do at that post was push the pause button interested in both the result and the winners public utterings. That obviously proved to be WOXI and from Mark Richards. I could wax lyrical but in short myself and a number of sailing buddies, some name sailors on the world scene included, some not, some uber rich, some not were all following the outcome of this race with interest. The ingredients including weather we're compelling. The outcome of the WOXI and Comanche lee bow tack where WOXI didn't capitulate and do a 720 had us perplexed. Therefore we waited and from what Mark Richards uttered at the dock we are now collectively appalled. Words like an "innocent" manouve I did consistent with the expectations of an offshore race being somehow different to the standing rules? That made my and our collective bloods boil over. Here is a leader in our sport telling us all, including impressionable youngsters who crave heros, that I Mark Richards effectively make the rules up to suit myself. Well as of now there are a few hours left for Mr Cooney to continue with his protest as flagged. A decision I don't envy him with on account of the "paper win" barbs he will get if he succeeds, and quite frankly he should by any objective assessment. Whether it secures a win or not is probably irrelevant. That all aside if Cooney doesn't continue his protest, or does so but fails, and the decision by the CYCA appointed IJ is not a transparent deliberatation and conclusion for all to see, then this will happen Before the last boat docks as permitted by all of the black letter stuff a protest under Rule 69 will be lodged identifying the CYCA and it's appointed IJ for the S2H for bringing the sport into disrepute. That protest will be of substance and bring into play various other legal considerations under Australian law. For instance Mr Sandy Oatley if you are reading these meanderings from, in your mind an internet fool. Can I suggest every dollar you outlay from today to support the above parties would not be a good idea. Motivation for this course of action you may ask? The answer is simple. I and some like minded souls could not give two hoots about the race outcome, but have spent our lives educating and encouraging our kids regarding the protocols of sport and it's rules. Be fucked if we are going to see some rich guy and his lacky put our collective investment on the rocks. That investment in our own kids, their friends and those they don't even know outweighs the Oatley family's investment in another 24hr headline for their boat by a country mile.
  34. 11 points
    OK, if you guys check your profiles under "Notifications" now you can turn off Notifications about up and down votes so that annoying shit will stop. You may now shower me with likes.
  35. 11 points
    I will preface this with the fact that I think there is no way in hell these women should have gone to sea, and their manic incoherent story smells of a scam. But there is something comforting about Sailing Anarchy, a predictable response.. Two unprepared dudes get lost at sea, yeah bad luck or stupidity. Two unprepared women get lost at sea = "that chick was slutty on land and they lived off eating pussy at sea." As if that has any bearing on or relation to the situation. Next time a couple of idiot guys need rescuing I am pasting this forum with sexual slanders and theories on how they lived on dick, and will consider it fair play.
  36. 10 points
    I agree. However the tag "deserving" allows you quickly capture prior circumstances often to do with adversity that "balance the books" to make one particular win or result special. It might be the guy for years who has competed without success and could quite easilly be forgiven for giving the game away, but didn't. It also helps differentiate results year to year in the same event. I can think of many Auckland leg wins where the winner wasn't quite deserving. A 80' ketch beating by a bees dick a W60 in 94 comes to mind. Why did I then put the tag "deserved" against AzN's win? It wasn't a reward for routing with their split at Taiwan. That's racing. It wasn't for Salter saying a day from NZ we are going to park up on the approach and be hit by the red tide so have to grab every metre we can to stay in front. That's racing. What came to my mind was the dispair Nicho would have felt stepping off Moviestar as she sank in 2006 and then perched on a reef in the Indian Ocean on his last outing. Simeon in 2006 sitting on ABN AMRO 2 with a fellow Dutchman lifeless on board, then saying "fuck you" and taking on a multinational company who wanted to tear up his dream on the eve of the start. Then on Leg 3 both watching the fleet sail away as their mast-track shit itself with Nicho thinking God does not want me in this race and taking the blame for a crap gybe. So yeah..I reakon it was a win well deserved.
  37. 10 points
    I have never quite understood why people say that some deserve to win more or less than others. It’s a sport. If it was a competition in deserving, they could have skipped the sailing only if a team cheated, or only worked 50%, I’d say they didn’t deserve to win. But even if nobody cheats and they all work as hard as possible, one team will win. It doesn’t mean that they deserve it more than others. If Dee can’t compete with the others, in the same conditions, she doesn’t deserve to win. Of course I feel gutted for her, but it has nothing to do with deserving anything, cause all the teams do their best.
  38. 10 points
    I think you want to be a good guy with a gun when you aren't black I think you want to be a good guy with a gun when the bad guy only has a spoon of peanut butter, and not an AR-15 I think you want to be a good guy with a gun when the scenario makes sense I think you want to be a good guy with a gun when you have a uniform, good equipment & training, and your buddies have your back I think you want to be a good guy with a gun when you are young and stupid and don't know any better I think I'd rather be a good guy who never faces this situation. Please. That's why I'm arguing to rewrite the 2nd. It's a long path, but I've run marathons, too.
  39. 10 points
    Been busy translating the article... Here it is (quick and dirty). Now you can carry on speculating on the accident. A lot of so called experts in this thread that know better. Personally I will wait the conclusions of the investigations. Voilesetvoiliers.com : This 4th leg between Melbourne and HK appeared to be a hard one ? Kevin Escoffier : It was, but more mentally than physically. The previous one on the Indian ocean was really difficult because of the strong winds and cold temperatures, and yet I love a good strong breeze! It may appear obvious, but it takes a lot of time to dress. As soon as you are on the deck, you have to clip on. Everything is so violent. Even if the weather was not easy (not sure how to translate “lourd” – maybe thundery?) during Leg 4 – and I am not a fan of high temperatures – you can wear shorts and manoeuvers are easier. But the 5 day long doldrums were not easy, very unstable and random. Voilesetvoiliers.com : What are your feelings after this 2nd place ? K.E. : I think we sailed well. We did a small mistake around one of the islands that allowed Vestas to get in front of us. There was nothing to do about Scallywag. They were last coming into the doldrums, cut the corner and thanks to better wind managed to escape. This is sailing, sometimes you can get in front of boats that did the right thing, which we did. Voilesetvoiliers.com : What can you tell us about the collision between Vestas and a fishing boat 30 milles from the finish, which lead to one casualty ? K.E. : It’s terrible and very sad. I know the fishing world well (journalist: his dad Franck-Yves is a fisherman in St-Malo). That man went fishing that morning and didn’t choose to get hit by another boat! We don’t have a lot of information on the type of boat or its size, just the fact that there were 10 crew onboard. The boats we saw well mostly quite big and wooden made… Voilesetvoiliers.com : We read on social media that some people did blame Dongfeng for carrying on without diverting to assist in the rescue? K.E. : What I can say is that I was helming when we arrived at night in the bay with land light everywhere, a lot of shallow waters, quite a few anchored cargos and a lot of fishing vessels, sometimes trawling a net between the two of them. Charles and Franck were at the chart table navigating and watching the AIS, one was on the deck watching the windward side, another one on the leeward side and a third one transmitting the information between inside and outside, because our intercom system was down since we left Melbourne. We were on starboard tack at 25 knots with the big gennaker and the three headsails, and this was quite intense with the wind being more left than predicted. When we heard on the VHF about the Vestas collision – we were able to understand as our Chinese crew Horace was able to translate to English – we immediately radioed in the Volvo race centre to offer our help. A 14.5 tonnes VOR65 sailing at more than 50 km/h is obviously going to make a lot of damage. We were still doing watches and the watch leader Daryl called for a gennaker furl to sail towards Vestas, but Charles then came out and told us the race committee told him we should carry on. Voilesetvoiliers.com : Bit strange from the committee ? K.E. : It is not for me to say. We wanted to go, we had a Chinese crew member that could translate. On the other hand, I can understand that more complications had to be avoided. There were fishing vessels everywhere, rescue boats… Adding a sailing monohull only equipped with flashlights was not necessarily a good idea. It is the race authorities’ job and we have to follow their decision. Some people say random stuff on social media like one boat was on starboard and the other one on port from one photo because they don’t have anything better to do, but they don’t know what happened. This sort of thing is not that simple. The Vestas people are pros. Voilesetvoiliers.com : You had a fairly new crew for that leg? K.E. : Yes! We changed 5 people over 9 on that leg, so just more than half. We lead the leg for a week. The crew know each other and have a lot of experience, but we need to do better and win a leg now. I am confident we will soon. Voilesetvoiliers.com : Do you think the boats are better sailed than during the last edition? K.E. : Absolutely! The level has gone up a knotch both in terms of speed and navigation. Everyone is sailing well. Mapfre is good all the time, Akzonobel has a small advantage under masthead gennaker. We feel better with the J0, a non-overlapping headsail which is similar to what’s done on IMOCAs and is new on the Volvo. Brunel had a top crew and is not doing very well this time. There is no mystery. During a 4 hours watch, sails are trimmed constantly. Voilesetvoiliers.com : Do you feel that the VOR65 are dangerous boats ? K.E. : Let ‘s say we are pushing then very hard. As a crew member, no mistakes are allowed. In a strong breeze, every time you move, you know you will get hit hard. But there is no choice, you have to do it, a wave can take you down… Sometimes it’s really hot! In the last Volvo, our top speed on Dongfeng was 30/31 knots, this time we have reached 33/34! The number of people that get hurt this time is showing something. Voilesetvoiliers.com : It’s almost like a One-Design race in the bay? K.E. : This part is awesome! We are really close, we can see each other on the AIS or by eye during 15 days… but this is offshore sailing. It’s crazy! As soon as your sail trimming or manoeuver is not perfect, you start loosing miles. We all have a software on board that averages what we see from the other boats on AIS, so we know how well we are doing. This means you have to be on the top of your game 24/7! You have to rim the main every other second, a bit like during Spi Ouest France or Tour de France a la voile. This is a really good training. In the meantime, for someone like me that loves offshore sailing, you see fantastic skies and landscapes, you see really weird boats, come into fantastic bays and all that when sailing round the world. Voilesetvoiliers.com : This must be a really valuable experience then? K.E. : Absolutely. After six to nine months doing this, you go back home and you know everything there is to know about the boats and their potential. On IMOCAS, we don’t sail that much and we don’t use them to their full potential, because they are very complicated and setting them up is very expensive. Voilesetvoiliers.com : As the Banque Populaire design team manager, what is your feeling about crew protection in the future ? K.E. : I often discuss this with naval architects. This topic has been really improved on IMOCAS and the Ultims trimarans. In the last Vendee Globe Armel Le Cleac’h was sometimes wearing a helmet inside.I also had a chat about this with Guillaume Verdier when he designed the ex-future foiling Volvo boat. Until now, the structure was optimised and the deck layout was designed to be practical. Now, we have to think about impacts and then the ergonomic aspect and the possible injuries. We will have to go through the same thing that happened in the racecars world, where at some point everything was about performance without thinking about safety, but now you can see that the pilots have got good protection. For example, we will have to limit the use of thin sharp carbon made parts and reduce sharp edges in the cockpit… Voilesetvoiliers.com : Inside the VOR65, do you use lee cloths ? K.E. : Yes, it allows use to reduce the impacts and avoid crashing into a bulkhead. At 25 knots on these boats, it is easy to hurt yourself badly. I think we will have more protected helm stations on the future, because it is too dangerous at the moment. Waves hit you and hurt you, and sometimes they take you down. You are going far as you are clipped on, but it is violent. Voilesetvoiliers.com : We heard that lifejackets are getting off with the waves on deack? K.E. : This is true ! We are changing the lifejackets because the Hammar pressure sensors are getting off under the waves pressure. This is not great for safety. We have to be aware of all these issues that require some changes on the boats. We have to think about protecting the helm station, in particular on foiling boats. Voilesetvoiliers.com : Is this a worry for you ? K.E. : No, you just have to be aware of this and anticipate. Foils are a good example of a big and quick technology jump, thanks mostly to the Americas Cup. I am going put my engineer hat on and say that energy equals to the square of speed, when you multiply speed by 2, this equals to 4 times the amount of energy. When you are reachin on flat water, it’s fine, but if you hit a wave at 35+ knots, it is a lot more violent! Voilesetvoiliers.com : Are there some existing solutions? K.E. : AIS allows us to anticipate crossing with other boats, but more thought needs to be given to this, for example why not look at fitting the boats with thermal cameras? The ergonomic aspect also needs to be looked at. Trimarans cockpits are more and more protected. If Volvo is considering foiling monohulls in the future and if they don’t improve the helm’s protections, they won’t survive very long at that sort of speed!
  40. 10 points
    Leg 4 was the most readable yet. Too bad it got blown up at the end. Getting acclimated to every leg having its troll bait issue. Much to be said for starting alt-thread/ honeypots in time. Worked for the other legs. So for fun, let's preempt some of the specuguessing of the first-world problems that will blow up this leg. If needed, we can work to divert them in a timely fashion. Place your bets: External issues? VOR management, probably. Might even have a gender twist, featuring Karin Backlund. Would be wild if Mark Turner returns, with a letter from the courts reinstating him as skipper of the VOR. Or maybe an IOC investigation into host city bid corruption somehow. If OBRs to be muzzled even more, that would be an issue only cared for by the regulars, and would be properly handled in-thread. There are always the tracker issues too. Sailing Illustrated belatedly added a half-assed credit to forss (not by name), and the SA front page of SA didn't. Sheesh. Shades of the vendee daily show all over again. Natural disasters? A volcano erupting near a boat, like the one witnessed when PUMA -took the flyer north past Japan in 2012--think that was what Kenny D recalls. Last two editions leaving China, sickness was an issue for crews. Doubt if it is enough to warrant an alt-thread, but who knows. Most likely issue, maybe this time, will be environmental, like carbon knives and sushi. Or maybe a boat gets caught up in a plastic gyre. That would bring out the righteous social justice warriors. International issues? Will probably be worked out by the start, or will have been covered in their own leg 5 thread. Hate to think what kind of thread would be generated if, say, Pascal and Witty ended up in a PRC jail. MAPF at least waited until the end of the last edition for that Teams sure have a tough test getting around the physical and social challenges between them and the finish. More seriously, this leg I'll be watching especially for: -TBRUN to finally figure out their speed deficits. Bouwe and Cape are finally on it, (cf last few from-the-boats and dock interviews, thanks SC, Renny and the regulars). So if a swan song (SC), then they want to go out proudly. Not much choice since the other teams seem to be further up on the learning curve. -SHKS? It's TTOP's turn to cash in on the chances. SHKS--still to prove they can compete in other than trade winds or a gybefest in granny-gybe conditions. Still sceptical of anything Witty says. Redemption still interesting. Too soon to say what will happen to VS11, but still think their numbers approach and shore support havn't had the chance to shine yet. Still watching to see if it can work (ugh Probably into Newport and if so, would have to read around entitled American shills). -AKZO--hmm; wild card. Simon and Nicho seem to have worked out a good working relationship, and conditions this leg should temperate Nicho's boat-breaking jinx , barring another storm that tempts the fleet to hole up in "Sanya" for the leg start. They proved themselves well-along the "steep learning curve" (thanks Rennie for those vids). MAPF will be steady and have taken their lumps and seem to be unfazed by the recent drama and doldrums. Vila should be better prepared without S-H distractions (I hope), but he is an old man, so maybe enduring another doldrum leg will be tough. And MAPF still hasn't matched or improved on DF'RT's 'turbo' slot. Ñeti better be running simulations with Neal MacDonald polars in the VORG in preparation for leg 7 if he is to be back then. DFRT? Pascal has had a chance to think and plot and recover, and I expect he'll be eager to prove himself to those harsh french fans. (aside: pardon my Commonwealth sense of fair play and sport--never could get into the ghetto-ball trash talking mode). Expect they'll win this leg, but would like to see if they could handle a Doldrum or jury or team setback as impressively as MAPF did in leg 3, and the last two editions. DFRT/Groupama have proven they can handle equipment failure equally as well as Telefonica/MAPF. so don't expect much difference there. Yep. Looking forward to this leg, Hardly any social or equipment issues likely to distract from the best chance to see the best teams of sailors proving they best know how to get the same boat around the world quickly through almost all conditions nature and geography presents.
  41. 10 points
    After careful consideration we've decided to take Zorro off the evening helm shift. His shenanigans proved costly last night. Reminder to self: Double-check course and close VR app before sliding device into pocket.
  42. 10 points
    Meanwhile, Annemieke tells how she felt about the rule 69 issue Her own opinion about it is all I care about, and she wasn't offended by the video, only by how people claimed that she must have been.
  43. 10 points
    A lot have him on ignore here for these kind of shit fight comments. We try not to quote him. There's a whole other thread about the boats being wet and another about the 65's. But of course he knows that already.
  44. 10 points
    This is the most insane bit of dick swinging I have ever seen. "My race is more hardcore than yours because we kill more sailors then you." Nuts. Get a grip on reality and life. No matter how hard core your race, the correct number of deaths is exactly zero. More than that is suggestive that you have a problem; it is not a badge of merit. I notice that after the 2012 accident there is a now a minimum equipment requirement for the Farallones . What I also notice is that the list is actually a weakened version of the US Sailing safety equipment requirements for coastal races, removing such things as stability requirements. I guess not forcing some boats out of the race was more important.
  45. 10 points
    I did a quick scan of Australian TV outlets on their Sydney to Hobart Race (S2H) coverage tonight with both Line Honurs (LH) and Tattersalls (Handicap) podium honours now decided. Firstly good coverage of the little horses after last night's big horse controversy. Hats off to Matt Allen (who just happens to be Aust Sailings current head honcho and ex CYCA Commodore) finally cracking it after trying 28 years to do so, and for a long time on his own boat. Secondly, not a peep from Team Wild Oats (WOXI). So only public comments about Line Honours (LH) are those of other competitors, WOXI crew like Mark Mason's on Newstalk NZ and some WOXI sycophants. Other S2H competitors quotes in this regard were universally along the lines of "do the crime, do the time." So to the WOXI sycophants. Well this guy was a standout. His name is John Markos. John's bio is him being a Managing Partner of Hicksons Lawyers in Sydney and it seems advises clients in a range of commercial matters and in dispute resolution. So Mr Markos is both professionaly and very practically experienced with "black letter" laws and regulations, their interpretation, application and enforcement. So this Mr Markos after hearing Jim Cooney (Comanche's owner) publicly state his reasons for protesting, including reference to the S2H Race Rules and issues of safety for two vessels with a collective value in the tens of millions and upwards of 40 persons on board including family members, then made this following statement. By the way how do I know Mr Markos heard all that and was afforded air time? Simple, he represents the Race Organiser as CYCA Commodore and is the one who handed Jim Cooney owner of Comanche the LH silverware. This is the entirety of what the RO via Mr Markos said as broadcast (word perfect as I recorded it on ABC Channel 2, 7.00pm AEDT) about the International Jury (IJ) imposing a one (1) hour penalty on WOXI (and with my emphasis). "I was surprised, I was, I mean most everyone who was talking about it in the context of thinking if they had found against Wild Oats, that it would be minutes, or number of minutes" So here we have the RO essentialy saying the RO wanted WOXI to win and the Rules of their own Race should just be set aside by the the IJ to allow that to occur. By any objective assessment that is totally outrageous coming from a RO and one where everyone expects and demands their views on the race to be both impartial and having the sports best interest at the front of their mind. Seems not. So Mr Markos if you are reading this, I say this to you Sir. OPEN LETTER TO MR JOHN MARKOS - COMMODORE CYCA I listened and absorbed your views on Comanche's Line Honours win, and Race Record title for the Sydney to Hobart Race as expressed on Channel 2 ABC News tonite (7.00pm AEDT). That was in your capacity as the Race Organiser spokesperson about Wild Oats being penalised one (1) hour by the International Jury and being stripped of its title in favour of Comanche. Your statement to the media was: "I was surprised, I was, I mean most everyone who was talking about it in the context of thinking if they had found against Wild Oats, that it would be minutes, or number of minutes" My response to you Sir is this: 1. By any objective assessment your view is one of surprise Wild Oats had to firstly defend a protest and then secondly dismay for the International Jury's to rule against them and the quantum of the penalty. I won't dwell on that last aspect other than to remind you of precedent in this regard set in 1983 and 1990 races involving a disqualification and penalty of ten placings and obviously the stripping of LH standings in both instances. 2. Thank goodness there is a International Jury for this event, as opposed to an "in house" CYCA Race Committee determining protests, with regard to the partesian views as you have expressed. 3. Despite your standing, including professional legal background, it would appear you have little regard for the "black letter" Rules attached to this sport, your own race, why they are there, yet let alone how they should be dealt with, on and off the race course by competitors and adjudicators alike. 4. To remind you of the rules of racing as we're broken by Wild Oats and expressed by none other than the owner of Comanche and uttered publically before and after you handed over the trophy on stage to him, but you subsequently would appear to have little respect for. That is Rule 13 when a boat that is tacking (changing tack and tack not completed) shall keep clear of boats that are not tacking. That is designed to avoid in this case two vessels colliding who have upwards of forty persons combined on board, a combined weight of over 60 tonnes with the extreme consequences attached to that and though probably irelevant, a combined value in the tens of millions of dollars. The latter probably only applies as regard to the Race Organiser being you as spokesperson promoting this race on the national and world stage. 5. It would appear you have little understanding of this sport, how it is viewed by the general public and things that need to be employed to advance it. Your own "one boat, one team should have won" partesian utterings support my interpretations. In short you clearly don't have any regard for the thousands from kids upwards who participate, support and in some instances seek role models at the top end and they aspire to be. They do that in the expectation rules apply and are respected no matter the economic and social standing of those involved. 6. Having regard for competitors who are members of your Club, some who have largely expressed the view on the record and contry to yours being, "do the crime, do the time". Then it is my expectation and hope if they are true to that view, they will kick you to the kerb at the earliest opportunity, or failing that, at the next General Election of your Club Office Bearers. You and those of your ilk are a monumental blight on our sport. There is no place for you, so please disappear and let others that can do the job properly, do so. Yours The Sparrow.
  46. 10 points
    Just in case anyone gives a shit what I think. There was a wind shift to the left in between the two outer marks. Oats got a port tack ride back into contact with Comanche and Black Jack. This was just an accident of timing, if they had been further ahead at the first turning mark, they wouldn't have had the leverage. So it wasn't a case of their superior speed finally digging them out of their poor start. Their poor start put them in the right place at the right time. Comanche eats as much of the lefty as they can stand, and finally thinking it isn't going to shift back they tack to take their lumps and get into the new breeze. Tacking Comanche without diesel winches is slower than for Wild Oats. As a result minimizing tacks is part of their strategy. As they converge, the port shift wanes and the sure cross looks like a close cross. The on board video from Wild Oats shows them making bearing on Comanche until Ricko changes helm stations. From that vantage point, I would venture to say that they could have crossed, with maybe an I owe you one on the side. They are not on the layline for the mark, so they are going to have to tack twice anyway. Having just ridden a lefty, they probably still want to own the left. If Oats tacks safely to leeward of Comanche, she will be pinned from the mark, unable to tack until Comanche tacks. As a result they attempt a slam dunk and fail. Ricko has been doing things like this with Wild Oats and getting away with if for quite a while, which explains his "rules are different" comment. Others may sail the race, but Wild Oats owns it. Either Comanche waving them across, or Wild Oats tacking safely to leeward and ahead were the prudent choices. Many times big boats in congested waters are a little lax with rule enforcement just to prevent stupid and unsafe situations. Mark Richards' lack of judgement robbed Wild Oats XI of a place in the record books. Sure Wild Oats XI could be called Grandfather's Axe because there is almost nothing left of the original boat, but she has been an historic yacht with a great record. If she is to be sold or retired, it would have been on a very high note and possibly holding a record which will not be broken any time soon. SHC
  47. 10 points
    WOXI won sailing over the water Scan. Anyone who suggests otherwise is a dumb cunt. However there are rules and a rule has been broken. Richo's excuse in interviews stepping off the boat is probably the most self-serving unapologetic shit I have ever witnessed in this sport and maybe more. Love where our sport is going where say 8yo Opti and impressionable sailors looking for hero's think Richo's view of rule respect is where they should head. We reap what we sow. Fucking appalling.
  48. 10 points
    As a friend of Annamieke, I can say that your comment here is a damn sight more offensive and patronising to her than anything in that video. Witty gave her a spot on the Sydney Hobart because she is a capable Sailor; same reason he took her on the VOR. Considering you claim to have been a champion for women in the workplace, and then also claim (with a sly nod and a wink) that they are on a boat for just one reason, I think you are sadly lacking in clear thought.
  49. 9 points
  50. 9 points