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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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  1. Blue water performance cruiser - do they exist?

    Jeff, This is one of those questions that is too subjective without additional requirements definition on your part...And to some degree, I would say you don't know enough yet to actually define those requirements...Its a big step to sell it all and buy the perfect boat on the first try. For example, you don't define where around the world you want to cruise. Cruising the Med or the Carribbean is different than cruising the southern regions of South America... Webb Chiles went around on a Moore 24, and there was a couple that cruised a J/109 around the world too. Daddle cruises his SC50, but is happy in shorts and flip flops...BJ cruises with his family with more stuff, but can stay off in remote areas longer with less support (till something major breaks anyway), etc, etc. As BJ says, many cruisers spend less time sailing and more time in an area, living on the boat. But not all, so it depends on what the goal is. Is there enough money in the kitty or in monthly retirement income to spend a couple nights with SWMBO in a nice hotel every month or so? If yes, then likely need less "stuff" on the boat. Are you going to spend all the time on the boat? Then likely need more "stuff" on the boat...Does SWMBO consider car-camping in a tent on a prepared site with water and electrical a luxury or roughing it? While all us racers say upwind performance matters, most point to point cruising is not hard on the wind. And most route plan to make it that way. Square rigged ships sailed all over the world, and could barely work they're way upwind. So giving up the last couple degrees of point seems a pretty reasonable compromise. With only two of you onboard, how hard do you each want to work every day, every watch to extract max performance out of your performance boat? A boat that can get to 90% and stay there without you having to constantly "mind" it will likely result in more miles per day over the long run, than a boat that has to be worked hard all the time. Where are you starting and ending? New boat or used? $200K, $500K or $1.5M. After your couple years of sailing round the world, are you selling the boat and going back to land? Or keeping the boat and going back to shore...or are you never coming back until age prevents you from sailing the boat? Etc, etc, etc.
  2. J 121

    I know you know this, but have to see what other boats a J-111 would be racing against rate in those regions. If every other boat in the J-111's YRALIS fleet rate the same in both PHRF-NE and YRALIS , then you have a great case. If those other boats are rated the same or slower in YRALIS then they are in PHRF-NE, then you have less of a point. PHRF is far from perfect. But I generally have found the PHRF ratings on the J/Boats site to be pretty honest and realistic, whether I was racing a J/Boat I owned (J-24, J/109) or racing against J/Boats on the other boats I've owned (Bene First 30E, Santana 30/30, S2 9.1). It says a J/111 is a 42 and the control boat, a J-44 is a 27. OBTW there is only a 3 sec difference for the J-44's rating between PHRF-NE (27) and YRALIS (30)...so there is a +15 sec difference between a J-44 and a J-111 in both J/Boats recommended PHRF ratings and in PHRF-NE, yet YRALIS believes them to be even? So it seems to be that YRALIS is way overly penalizing the J-111, and not the other way around...but I'm sure you can come up with other boats that make a different case. I guess my takeaway after racing in PHRF for 30 years is that life is too short to get all wrapped around the axle about ratings....if I'm on my boat, sailing with my buds, then I'm happy...If I win, great. But its not my goal in PHRF. If I wanted to be more serious, I wouldn't race PHRF.
  3. Show me where it says POTUS is bound by a different set of laws. I'll agree with you that he shouldn't act as if he has complete freedom of speech, that the office he holds demands restraint in that regard, and that he is not exercising that restraint. But there is a big difference between that (that should get him unelected in 3 years) and saying he is breaking the law, or that he is engaged in a battle against the first amendment.
  4. It does matter to me, and the answer is for the Democrats (or Republicans for that matter) to run a candidate a majority of Americans can get behind. The sad truth is last time around they picked about the only person who was as poisonous as the Donald. But to be honest, I have little faith that either party will do that. Both will likely double down and pander even more to the "base" and run candidates as bad if not worse to the average, intelligent, can think for him or her self american. And we will be right back here again...maybe with the Donald, maybe with a marginally better candidate for one or the other party, maybe with a worse candidate. I'm not holding my breath.
  5. While I’m neither part of his base, nor a supporter of all he does, last I checked, the President is also an American, and therefore granted the same free speech protections as anyone else... Until he orders a federal authority to act against a press outlet, he is in no way battling the first amendment...he’s using it. He’s battling what he believes to be biased and inaccurate reporting by a majority of the press There’s a significant difference.
  6. Gun control

    Polling is great to get early indications or intentions, it's not the same as voting, and polling has missed on a number of national elections, so hard to use as fact. Polls do not necessarily protect privacy...take a poll in front of a church on how many members think a strip club should be allowed in a town. Take same poll with same people anonymously and you'll likely get different results... We still kill more people a year in cars...why no outrage about cars? Because we feel they are needed and therefore "worth" the cost right? Also, the bigger question is how many people killed by guns now, would have been killed anyway, using some other means? For example, using a rental car to drive into a crowd a la Charlottesville, and numerous terrorist attacks in Europe... Taking guns away would certainly result in some deaths not occurring. In some ways guns are easier and have tactical advantages. But the guy in Las Vegas? He likely would have come up with another way to try to kill a large number of people...

    Perfect example of my point. I never said what my view of climate change is.... Yet you've already characterized my as a denier, said I was ignorant, and said I wasn't smart. I also didn't deny the science as you claim. To change the world, you actually have to convince other people you are right. Telling them how moronic they are is not an approach likely to win them over. Just going by the most recent Presidential Election, about half the voting population isn't yet convinced. So you still have some work to do. Your current approach is likely only to solidify their opposition.

    allene222, Lioness, and Everyone else... How do I say this in a way that will get you to consider what I say, without just dismissing me. History is full of examples of "science" being used for political gain. So there is nothing inherently wrong with disagreeing with "accepted science." Just because someone questions accepted science doesn't make them a bad person. While I'll agree that advances are made on the backs of those who came before us, so are some colossal mis-steps. The challenge here with climate science is that it has been politicized. BY BOTH SIDES. allene, I think you need to get to some other countries if you really, honestly, think there is a strong anti-science movement here. Dissenting opinion - saying "I disagree with the conclusion you've drawn from the data and models" is not anti-science, and its disingenuous to imply that it is. Personally, I don't think the climate change science has gone far enough. Its science on a symptom, not on the root cause. The root cause is that as a species, we have been so wildly successful, that we are likely affecting the "balance of nature" that up till humans, kept the system in some state of order or balance. CO2 emissions but one symptom of too many humans. but I digress, my real point is.... ...We are all sailors here. If we step back just a little, I think we'd realize that we have more in common then points of disagreement. I think we could have a reasoned discussion on ways to reduce CO2 emissions, even if not everyone is convinced that it will have a grand impact on climate change. But if both sides keep calling each other names, if both sides keep saying "you're an idiot if you don't see it our way" then we will never get around to solving the 95% of the issues we can and do agree on.
  9. Lief Erikson

    We American's (writ large, as a whole) have no real sense or understanding of History. Slavery was certainly not invented in America...hell, we didn't hold a candle to either the Romans or the Egyptians...and yes North Africans (The Barbary States) held white slaves throughout the reign of the Ottoman Empire. Both the Japanese and Germans used what was, for all intents and purposes, slave labor during WWII. Doesn't make slavery right. But it was and continues to be part of the human experience since we first walked upright. I was trying to make a joke about the apparent contradiction that the same people that say we've stolen what was rightfully the property of the Native Peoples are the same people (generally, I'm sure there are some exceptions) arguing for more open immigration, and citizenship for illegal aliens...guess it didn't come out quite the way I meant it.
  10. Lief Erikson

    Yeah. They shoulda stayed home! Funny that now that they conquered the place, we think everyone should get to come in! If I was a Native American I’d wonder what the hell is up with the white man. First he takes our land from us...then his ancestors fight to give what was our land to everyone BUT us
  11. 25'-30' Sprit Boat For $75k

    That dates from May of 16...anyone know if its still for sale?
  12. FT 10M

    You've been on the wrong guys boat if you were on a smelly one. My 109 never smelled. Course it rarely had any water in the bilge or under the floorboards either, and if any got there, I'd vacuum/sponge it out.
  13. SCIENCE!

    Races like this are great for tech development, but are "impractical" as solutions at this point...unless we only allow cars in deserts where there is always sun. Plus, how much CO2 went into producing those vehicles? Producing the components? How about all the support vehicles? So a step towards a partial solution...but a long way to go to that solution...
  14. Bihan 6.5: http://www.finot-conq.com/en/content/bihan-650
  15. Club racer electronics

    Holy s*&t, there's a huge difference between some of you and me when it comes to "club racing." To me that means semi accurate speed, depth and wind speed/direction. Otherwise, a windex and get your head out of the boat. But then my club was pretty "club" and not NYC or Ida Lewis, so.... But geez, no wonder racing continues to get ever more expensive....this plus sails equals the cost of many a 30-35 foot used racer/cruiser every couple of years, esp if the electronics are consumable as WHK said. Then again, I never was hugely competitive on my J/109 either.... Also, I think the mix changes some if you are Ocean racing, vice buoy racing. More emphasis on nav and routing I'd think.