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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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  1. Dave's perfect sailboat

    Of course we are still interested...hope you can get a pic posted, would love to see the boat again, now that she's yours and at least on this side of the pond, if not in your backyard yet.
  2. Replacing a piece of toe rail

    Once you get your section of rail, I'd lay it against the hull aft, and then from the forward end and see which end has more bend. My guess is the forward end does. If that's the case, then you might consider starting at the forward end, vice near the stern, as the long length of rail sticking out should act like a nice lever arm, and help make the bending easier. That way when you get to the straighter section at the stern, its not as much of an effort to try to bend. But I'd run this "theoretical I was an engineering student once in a galaxy far, far away" approach past H2O who actually knows what the hell he's talking about... I'm also with him on using 5200...its one thing to have to trim some butyl off from around a portlight. Its an entirely different thing to have to trim it off 10 plus feet of toerail as it slowly continues to ooze out...
  3. Craigslist - Not mocking

    Not craigslist, but... Also a nice paint job. Plus, if it was really stored in a hanger, then there is a chance it's actually in good shape structurally... http://sailingtexas.com/201801/sregan23101.html
  4. Schrock Santana 23D dagger board model

    A well sailed 7.9 is a very tough boat to beat...
  5. Totally lost...

    That particular 9.1 has been for sale for a long, long time...even with the non standard interior, it must have some other issues. Not as cruise friendly as a "standard" interior boat. The J-30 looks very nice, and has a bunch of newer gear... The 305 is an updated version of the First 30E. Same hull, more sail area, slightly updated interior. Rates 6-9 secs faster than a 30E, but still slower than that Kirie. Notice the headliner is falling down. Common issue on these boats. The head and hull liner was foam backed vinyl. Over the years the foam breaks down, and the liner starts to sag/fall off. It leaves the adhesive and some of the foam still well adhered to the hull sides and overhead. Its a PITA to clean that off...not difficult per se, but a ton of labor. Then you need to either replace with something, or paint the raw fiberglass mat once you get it all clean. Beneteau First Series of this era were well built. Tartans 10s lack standing headroom, and have some core issues (as do many racer/cruisers of the era including J/30s, S2 9.1s, Pearson Flyers, etc, etc)...but are light air upwind machines. I've always had a Frers 30 on my short list. This is a good price for one. Not that many were built (I think they were pricey in their day), so they don't come up for sale as often as some of the other boats listed in this thread. Later boats built by Barry Carroll had build issues, these I think were early enough not to. As fast or faster than a S2 9.1 or J-30. Better looking than both in my opinion. Dunno nothing about the Nonsuchs, so will keep my mouth shut on that one
  6. Totally lost...

    Lex, I think you need to add the phrase, "for the money..." as I would tell you a J/109 has the same combination of speed and sure footedness, for a mere 6x the price!
  7. X 24 class is a simplified J 24

    Or pick a length, and cut down the current ones. 14 probably easier to slide under, esp with the sloping deck. Also makes a more comfortable back rest for driver/trimmer. Neither is high enough to not be a trip hazzard, so that's not a factor in the decision...
  8. Totally lost...

    What other boats are typically racing in your area? Your right that you don't want to be the slowest rated boat off the line, generally speaking. The slowest boat has to win his start and be able to protect his lane, or else he spends the whole upwind leg in bad air, or is forced to the unfavored side to clear his air, etc, etc. At least a J-24 is pretty nimble, and accelerates well, which should make a good start/defending a lane easier. On a 30 footer that rates with a J-24, you have the advantage of a higher rig, but it's not as nimble and won't accelerate out of tacks as well. All the time I raced boats of that kind (our First 30E for example) we rated near the top of the C fleet, which was an advantage. If we'd been in the bottom of B fleet, that might have made it really tough...
  9. Schrock Santana 23D dagger board model

    Though by now the balsa cored deck of a 7.9 that hasn't been well maintained is also going to be wet and mushy...just to be fair. Not arguing that overall build quality isn't better.
  10. X 24 class is a simplified J 24

    How about using the same one's they use on a J/70? Should be readily available...puts lifelines at 305 mm above sheer, or just over 12 inches...(12.0079)
  11. Totally lost...

    MORC was around for a lot of years, and evolved over those years. The early-middle boats are different from the boats near the end of MORC's heyday (which are the ones Slick mentioned). I'm a big fan of those late MORC production boats. They are all reasonably quick, have no bad habits, are seaworthy, and have reasonable accommodations for cruising. But they are at the top end of your price range in good shape. The early MORC boats share all those same characteristics, but are not as quick. A Tartan 30 rates in the 171-180 range these days, compared to 126-135 for later MORC boats...Tartan 3000 was the replacement for the Tartan 30. Good boat, rates around 165 or so... Just for comparison, and as you know, J-24 rates around 174 on LIS. So both the Tartan's are as fast as a J-24 which you are used to...but slower than a J/30 which is about the same size... PHRF ratings are not the be all and end all, just a decent indication of the relative performance between the boats. From a cruising perspective, a well sailed late MORC boat will get to an anchorage or destination 20 nm away about 10 minutes faster than an equally well sailed Tartan 3000 in a moderate breeze...so the speed difference is not that big a deal from a cruising perspective...and only really matters from a what kinds of boats are you grouped with from a racing perspective. https://www.yralis.org/base-ratings
  12. Totally lost...

    IOR boats can get squirrely downwind when over pressed. Back in the day we actually used to have a spinnaker made of 2.2 oz cloth that we called the "bullet proof" chute...you'd put it up in 25+ knots and go rolling and broaching downwind. It was fun in its own way Also much of that stability issue was from "optimizing" a custom boat to look slower for the rule. Production versions we not as "compromised" in that regard. Finally, sailed more reasonably, they are actually pretty good. We once took our Beneteau First 30E (also a productionized 1/2 tonner) down the Chesapeake Bay in 25-30 with gusts to around 35 out of the North. 6-8 foot seas or so. Single reef in the main, and the number 2 poled out wing and wing. Boat was beautifully balanced, under control the entire time. Easily running at 7-9 knots and surfs to 14 plus. The difference was a much lower center of effort from the sailplan (compared to a chute) as well as much more stability of the sailplan (as the jib was on the headstay, and had the clew supported by the pole).
  13. Totally lost...

    The Elite 30S is a productionized version of an IOR half ton circa 1983 I think. It is relatively light and carries more sail area than a typical IOR half tonner, but that said, it SA/Disp rating is still less than 20, so its not overpowered by any stretch. Also most production boats come in over their published displacements...so it may well be heavier than listed, but I don't know if that's actually true for that particular boat or not... Finally its PHRF rating is 150, where as a J/30 (ODR) or S2 9.1 rate 135 (all ratings from YRALIS base ratings database). So its faster than a Catalina 30, but slower than the more "focused" racer/cruisers.
  14. Totally lost...

    Laser 28. While in Wisconsin, it comes with a trailer, and is "relatively" light for a 28 footer, so moving it to LIS shouldn't break the bank so to speak.... http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/66466
  15. Foam backed vinyl liner

    I know several who have done the overhead of their S2 9.1s that way after tearing out the stained carpet liner that was originally up there...