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Everything posted by Crash

  1. Crash

    Newer J80 Crazing

    First guess, as it's on both sides I'd say that it likely is that it indeed is an underlying structural issue. How serious is harder to say. Also I also realize It still could just be that US Watercraft got the gelcoat way too thick in those areas and the underlying structure is fine... Helpful, wasn't I?
  2. Crash

    "Perfect" Compromise Boat?

    2007-2009. Great Skipper, great boat, great crew! I was a WBB guy at the time, my wife was in PMA-280 as Strategic Plans..
  3. Moved from East Coas(Chesapeake Bay) to West Coast (Halfway between LA & Ventura) four years ago, selling the last boat when we left. Finally at a point to be able to buy another used boat, and while I'm a constant boat shopper, and fairly well aware of what boats are out there, I'm hoping you guys can highlight one or two I haven't yet thought of. As background, I want to both race casually (PHRF), coastal cruise (Catalina, Channel Islands, Santa Barbara, San Diego), and use the the boat as a weekend retreat on the water. There are only 3 of us, SWMBO, and a 10 year old boy, but would like room for him to be able to bring a friend. SWMBO, would very much like semi-private double berth for us, that is not cramming our feet together (real vee- berths), and not have the head in a sleeping cabin (at least not ours). Standing headroom, but tallest of us is 5' 10". I like more traditional interiors, don't like newer Euro style. (Slip rates out here are exorbitant, at least compared to Norfolk VA, and every 5 foot of LOA is another $100, so trying to stay in the 30 foot range. I'd like the trav in the cockpit (i.e. not mid boom on the cabin), like retracting sprits & asyms, but can do conventional chute and poles. Inboard diesel. Would like to keep purchase price under $30k, but can go higher for the "perfect" boat. Like the mid-80s production Maxi-MORC boats (S2 9.1, Olson 911, Santana 30/30, ?), though most don't meet interior desires. Boats I've owned in the past: J-24, Santana 30/30RC, Beneteau First 30E, J/109, S2 9.1 The "Perfect" Boat would be another J/109. Meets all the requirements from a "boat perspective." Has the interior layout, space, asym, and more performance than I need. Fails on cost. Cost's too much buy, sails too expensive, slip's expensive. J-97 also quite attractive. Layout works, plenty of performance, better on size/slip fees, sail costs more reasonable. Purchase price too high, and don't really dig "euro styled" interior. Can't find many in the US, let alone here on west coast. Andrews 28. Hits on many requirements. Interior a little small. Only made 4, so finding one is??? C&C 30-2. Hits most requirements. Has mid boom main sheet & no asym on a pole. CS 30. Same as C&C 30-2, but less private aft cabin Aloha 30. Same as C&C 30-2. Olson 911S. Aft berth might work, but open to main cabin. No asym Olson 34/Express 34. Same as Olson 911S, and more expensive from a sails/slip perspective C&C 33-2. Aft cabin/berth maybe smaller than C&C 30-2? Trav in right place, more expensive from slip and sails perspective Catalina 30 and the like are too "cruiser" oriented in general to appeal.
  4. Crash

    "Perfect" Compromise Boat?

    IB, that's a great point. I can see looking at an undamaged 36.7 and finding a couple of small voids/delams and recognizing them as acceptable. The problem here (I think) is determining what is a pre-existing manufacturing flaw (void) and what is an impact delam, as in some cases they both may sound similar to the hammer/ear. Without more sophisticated test gear and procedures (like we had for composite aircraft) there really is no record, boat to boat, of what was an original manufacturing "variation" nor an engineering analysis to enable a disposition of "strong enough for the intended use." The second challenge I can sorta see, is given the above, how does one decide that some amount/number of voids/delams are acceptable from a strength standpoint. One the one hand, no 36.7 that I know of has lost a that would seem to indicate the original build quality is adequate for the way the boats are used. On the other hand, I don't want my family to be on the first one that does lose a keel 1/2 to Catalina. I recognize we are in that risk cube area of 'very low likelihood of occurrence vs. catastrophic consequences" should it occur. The last part I'm trying to sort thru is how hard is it to repair the voids (whether an original manufacturing variation or as a result of damage). Can additional adhesive/epoxy/splooge be introduced to fill the void? If so, that doesn't seem like an overly complicated or expensive approach. Or would the surfaces be too contaminated for that approach to work? And with keel off, and all the floorboards up, there certainly isn't an easier time to repair what needs to be repaired (whatever that might be)...
  5. Crash

    yanmar rebuild?

    Yanmar still sells the 1GM10 new, so some GM parts must be out there. That said, Mack Boring a firm with a good rep and is (as you know) a Yanmar Dealer, so I would tend to take their word...
  6. Crash

    J 70 PHRF

    Fair enough. Only test sailed a J/70, and have never sailed the Melges, so my opinion is probably not worth too much
  7. Crash

    "Perfect" Compromise Boat?

    That makes for another interesting discussion. I wonder if insurance rates on 36.7s reflect that risk/cost? As it seems to me the repair bill is an insurance claim, and the cost to the owner is his deductible, (a couple grand at most) not the 20 grand repair cost.
  8. Crash

    "Perfect" Compromise Boat?

    That's an interesting discussion TL. Having lived and sailed most of my life in on the Chesapeake Bay, I've run aground more than once or twice, but that's as forgiving an environment as you'll find. When racing we used to call it "bump" tacking. Out here in SOCAL, most all the harbors are created with rock jetties. In this case, there is a well known rock (misplaced during jetty constuction?) right near the entrance that is used as a turning mark on the way to finishing inside the harbor. Low tide, cut the corner, bang the rock...he's not the first, and likely not the last guy that will do that. As to the design aspect of the 36.7. We don't design airplane wings to survive hitting objects. So you can look at the Bene design two ways I think. One is that the liner/grid did its job. Guy hit a rock. Keel stayed on. No water leaked into boat. Liner/grid and hull flexed to absorb the damage (like a car's crumple zone?), and need repair to be back to 100%. Other way is boat should in fact be robust enough to withstand such a single hit grounding without damage. That would require more structure and/or a different keel design. That would definitively add cost and/or decrease performance. As with any and all design elements, there is compromise. So I think if you (me) were to buy a 36.7, you have to take a much more proactive approach to determining if the grid/liner system has been properly assembled (no voids, etc) and that there is no unseen damage (harder to do, I realize), and recognize the boat is not as damage tolerant as say a Luders 44 yawl with a full keel (the boat I learned how to bump tack on!), so it you do hit something, you need to get the boat hauled and thoroughly inspected by highly experienced and competent surveyors and yard personnel with a mindset that they may well be hidden damage. I'm not sure where I fall on that spectrum. So far as I know, none of the Bene 36.7s (over what 800 built?) have lost a keel. There were a number or signs that were ignored on Cheeki Rafki that I am not likely to ignore (why does the bilge keep filling with salt water?). I have no plans to cross on ocean with the boat. But I don't want to lose the keel on the way to Catalina Island either. All that said, I've owned plenty of mid 80s racer/cruisers and been perfectly happy with how they perform. I don't need a boat that rates as fast as a J/109 or Bene 36.7. But they do meet the Admirals requirements in a way 95% of mid 80's racer/cruisers don't. "Compromise" was part of the thread title for a reason. Haven't decided which aspects and requirements to compromise on yet...That's part of the fun, and the frustration with this.
  9. Crash

    "Perfect" Compromise Boat?

    Another update: Looked at a Bene 36.7. Not sure why I didn't have that on the original list. They are significantly less expensive than a J/109, yet meet (exceed) the interior requirements. No asym. I looked at them seriously (test sailed too) before buying my 109. Raced on one for 2 years in Solomons MD. Talked to that owner (has subsequently sold, then bought 2 other boats). He wishes he still had his. Am well aware of Pan Liner/Grid issues and Cheeki Rafki loss and lessons. Boat we were looking at banged a rock racing the night before we first saw it. It was hauled with the keel off. 2 bent keel bolts, and hull damage suspected. I saw potential damage to liner/grid, and hired a surveyor who confirmed my suspicions. He also found some voids/delams, though can't say if a manufacturing issue or a grounding issue. I saw a void where the sump was cut out (missing sploge/adhesive), so likely some are manufacturing. Shared my results with broker, who shared with owner's rep, who got pissed? So not sure all damage is going to be repaired, not sure I'm interested in pursuing this boat... Wife is going up to SF Bay area this weekend to visit parents and is looking at J/109, Bene 36.7, C&C 99 and Bene First 310 up there, so we'll see what that turns up.
  10. Crash

    J 70 PHRF

    A single boat is a pretty small sample set. Wonder what would happen if the crews of the Melges and J traded boats? Not saying the J/70 is a great PHRF boat...just wondering how much is boat, and how much is crew
  11. Crash

    Craigslist - Not mocking

    The Bluejacket is a looker...the T22, not so much
  12. So while we all want to "blame" the venture capitalists/private equity firms that buy these companies...and at one time bought the company I worked for, wIhy does nobody blame the family or owners for selling to them? Aren't they being just as greedy, and trying to get as much as they can get for them themselves? Aren't they just as responsible, if not more so? If they were truly interested in the long term welfare of the company and its employees, couldn't they have sold to someone else that actually had those interests in mind, even if it means less "profit" to the original owners? And in the end, aren't we as consumers also partly to blame? How many of us, given the choice, buy the product from a family owned business, even if that means its more expensive, than a similar competing product that's less expensive? We consumers don't actually value keeping a company around either...
  13. Crash

    Minor hull damage?

    I think Duncan has it right...its a starter boat, so use it to learn repair techniques as well. West systems manuals are a great source of information. Its not really rocket science. Take your time, be methodical, and it'll likely turn out way better then what you've got now. Its a Capri, so highly likely that the core in the cockpit sole is balsa. I think balsa is a little easier to work with for a newbie DIYer, so would use balsa to recore...but that's just me....again, covered in detail in the West Manuals. Crack on the side of the hull, may or may not be "cosmetic", but for now, would follow Maui's advice. Grind a shallow vee shape into the gelcoat, mix up some new grey colored gelcoat and put it in the crack. Catalina probably will sell you grey gelcoat for an almost pretty good color match.... If, once you've gone sailing for a bit, it opens up again after you fix it, then you'll know it wasn't just cosmetic, and will need to do more..
  14. Crash

    Cleaning Sails

    Like "Oxy-Clean" has in it. Chlorine bleach will damage the dacron... Have you asked your sailmaker what he/she recommends?
  15. Crash

    Non Skid Gelcoat

    Shu, I think you probably need to remove all the oxidation first with a rubbing or polishing compound depending on how oxidized. Then you can use something like the West Marine stuff, or the non-skid wax to try to keep oxidation at bay. Problem now is that the non skid sections have been oxidizing since day one...and those "cleaning" compounds are meant for just that, cleaning non-skid, not removing years of oxidation.
  16. Crash

    J 70 PHRF

    Though this is true for many, if not most OD boats. I owned/raced a J-24 in PHRF in Pensacola back in the late 80s when I as in flight school, as there was no OD fleet there. If racing OD is your thing, then you need to buy into whatever fleet exists (if one exists) where you live, or be willing to travel. Or just go out and race your boat and have fun in PHRF, and don't get all wrapped up in winning. I owned and raced a J/109 on the Chesapeake in the 2003-2006 timeframe, when there was no fleet raced it in PHRF aslo (I wasn't buying it as an OD boat) The other thing big health fleets and big numbers generally bring better resale values, so you do have that going for you In light winds the J/70 might have a chance. If the bigger, heavier boats are sailing at hull speed upwind, and have to sail hotter angles downwind to create some apparent wind, you might could do pretty good. I used to sail on a friends FT 7.5, and if it was light, we were very competitive with the bigger PHRF boats even on W/L. Plus the shorter the course more advantaged we were, as boat would out accelerate, and needed less crew movement to complete maneuvers...once the wind was up enough for them to reach hull speed upwind, and sail deep downwind, it was much tougher... On random leg courses that had a tight reach where we could fly the asym and they were still flying jibs, well that was like Christmas coming early!
  17. Crash

    J29 or J27

    Brent, Both are great boats. Both have conditions in which they do well, and a smaller set in which they don't do as well as other boats...but that can be said for most boats, so its only a dis-qualifier if that the set of conditions that is predominant where you sail. As has been said, both can be towed, typically with no issues. J-29 not technically legally...but that doesn't mean you'll ever get stopped, unless your tow rig is horribly unsafe looking. They are all built the same way, so all can suffer water getting in the core. As a broad and general statement, J-29s might have been raced harder/put away wetter, but there are a lot more that were built, so you should be able to find a good one. So to me, it all comes down to crew numbers. To be equally competitive on either boats, you'll need 2-3 more bodies on a J-29. Crash
  18. Crash

    C&C 39 Rudder lost at sea...

    +1 As there is no OD fleet, and there is no partial rudder/stock to rebuild, and its highly unlikely that anyone just happens to have one laying around in stock on the shelf, this is the perfect time and opportunity to update the rudder to a modern design. Like Ish, I’d take the one Bob designed...
  19. Considering putting an offer in on a 36.7 in MDR. It found a rock, so keel is off, front/rear keel bolts bent. Saw some potential related cracks in pan liner. Its being repaired by insurance. I'd like an objective, experienced Surveyor's opinion on condition, and then if I go ahead, to monitor the repair for me, so I have confidence in the repair as executed. Tried search but only came up with guys down in Long Beach area... Thanks, Crash
  20. That would certainly be my backup plan if there are not any recommendations for MDR....but depending on time of day, its a good hour plus slog from Long Beach to MDR or back....
  21. Crash

    Craigslist - Not mocking

    If that's professionally stored, I'd hate to see how some nitwit might have done it .
  22. Crash

    "Perfect" Compromise Boat?

    Ok, so we've looked at the Tartan 101 - nice, a bit too race oriented, and for the same money as a J/109, not as comfy down below. I've also looked at a Ericson 32-200. Layout down below would work, but would have to move the trav - its not even mid-boom more like 1/3 boom - kinda like having 2 vangs . The particular boat I was on is currently a live aboard, shows lots of signs of previous water damage, though some of that was being addressed finally, and the new sails dated to 1997. No spin gear or spin pole present. VHF was mounted in such a way as to keep the nav desk/icebox top from fully opening. Geez... Tried to look at a Pearson 28-2. Priced right (could buy it and new sails for what I'd consider putting down on a 109). Looked good in pics. But its got an accepted contract that supposed to close in the next couple days...Be really nice if Brokers would every now and again, update their listings. This is the 4th boat I've called on that was under contract, and 2 of the Brokers couldn't be bothered to, or never offered to show the boat. At least the other 2 guys were more than willing to show their boats. Wife is going to look at a Bene First 36.7 as I type. We looked closely at them and test sailed one before we bought our new 109 back in 2002. I also raced on one for 2 years, so am familiar with their good points and bad points. Still, significantly less expensive (to buy) then a 109 of the same age. We also went and checked out a couple marinas in Channel Islands Harbor. Leaning towards Anacapa Isle Marina. Nice facilities, and it has a pool, which is big when you have a kid. Close to a good breakfast spot too! There's a C&C 99 and a C&C 34+ up in the SF Bay, that I'd like to get to see...and there seem to be a bunch more boats that match up to our requirements up in the PNW... Not in a hurry, but getting frustrated by the quality and type of boats down here...