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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Groucho Marx

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  1. Frog

    Had some correspondence and replied to questions from an Australian small boat expert and enthusiast; might be of interest: "The upper foils are for when overpowered; didn't see that occur during test, breeze gusted up occasionally and then Frog felt not too bad with float lifted clear, riding on lower foil (plus rudder too of course). There was no breaching, platform is steady. I realize that the tip must be close to surface but the platform heels so it must be down enough. Early days, lot to observe and learn. The main foil area is not large and I may have to increase the span - but in past foils I've found too large an area to be pain in arse, boat starts to lift too far, then rocks to other side. So prefer smaller area. Must say Frog seems a very small and flighty boat compared to my others, whole boat with rig weighs around 130 kgs, including Skimmer's "double" sail. And will be probably overpowered with full sized main. That's okay, I like flying along in light airs, magical. I think the double luff will work out okay; looking at rig when sailing it sets smoothly with pleasant curves off the D mast to windward and to leeward. Reefing will lower power but then I will have some turbulence set up behind the upper bare D mast section; have to live with that. The mast has luff of 8.6 metres, which is not excessive proportionately - compared to my other boats. A Moth has, to my eye, a very fine mast, meaning width/chord measurement - so drag is not really a problem but larger boat needs a decent stick. Frog's is 200 x 240mm, weighs with rigging 26kgs. I find it odd that the A's haven't got a decent airfoil mast that works; maybe they're just too small and too light a platform to handle the slightly heavier rig. Could you imagine a C Class today without a full wing? Or even 3/4 decades ago without a wing mast? The first sail revealed a number of mistakes with Frog but I'll get them sorted and when the new sail arrives will be another steep learning curve. Looking forward to it."
  2. Caribbean 600

    Correct, apologies, have veered off course topically. Cheers.
  3. Caribbean 600

    Comparing conventional headsail/main (and probably a fixed fore and aft mast at that?) to a slotted full wing and saying the latter is similar to the former is beyond incorrect; the headsail/main slot nonsense is simply nonsense, an old wives tale - but still clung to by frightened traditionalists. Also and going further, do you see any slots (even with the flap) in the inclined split wing of world's fastest sailing boat Vestas Sail Rocket ... or the vertical wing of Macquarie Innovations, or in the rigs of record setting sail boards?
  4. Caribbean 600

    Jibs on the AC boats look like a pathetic genuflection to old guard and conformists - a dark ages throwback compared to the full wings?
  5. Frog

    No, that's including the mast - which weighs including running and standing rigging 26 kgs. Height is 8.83 metres, including bearing and the section is 200 x 240mm.
  6. Caribbean 600

    Agreed, Sidecar, a conventional sloop would be simpler ... but the idea of Cox's Skimmer was to have a low rig, so masts are only 6 metres tall (on a 5.5 m platform). It was designed and built for an old friend who wanted some performance without danger, ha. Initially there was water ballast which tamed the boat for old blokes but the tank has since been removed - and Skimmer is much more flighty and tip truck, even with the low rig - which is of some area, see photograph.
  7. Frog

    Sailed today with the Skimmer's two mains set up as one to make a very reduced double luff main for Frog. Number of little problems, as expected; the rudder cam re-glued yesterday was still too close to deck so had to brutally sand deck and cam back with rasp, still not quite right but at least I could steer crudely. When gusts arrived Frog surprised by sailing with some speed and panache - slow in the light stuff though. Since the double luff main worked okay, have to get full size version built by Bill Barry; that is, if he still wants to be associated with my contraption. Have to say looking out leeward at the tiny floats is little unnerving but in the gusts the leeward float was flying clear, so foils definitely do their job. By the way, complete boat without sails weighs 127 kgs.
  8. Frog

    Intended to sail today but I screwed up on the tiller head shaft connection (original has been lost somehow) so bodgied up a replacement from various other boat parts (of which I have a few) - anyway had to saw away cured epoxy and re-glue slightly higher on shaft. By the time that semi-cured, tide was on the way out. Yes, have tested hoisting the two schooner rigged mains from the Skimmer as a double luff main, works fine - but too small because they're from the 18 foot boat. But they will give an indication of whether the setup will work. Only a conventional dagger offset to one side of main hull (so to have a wider but still cramped entry down below). Sleeping there will be hellish - but not as bad as on Eric Eason's beyond cramped Buccaneer 24. I could put a small T foil on the dagger but that means it has to be semi-permanent ... unless you go for a swim to remove it from bottom. I'm avoiding this T foil main dagger because it would mean acquiescing to madman Doug Lord's harping on about the subject. But if Frog is slow to lift off (it won't be) will bite the bullet and become his friend again? The float foils are fixed, main at 3 degrees AoA, upper at 6. Will suck and see. The beam could be set up to alter foil angles, if necessary. Here's a shot of the rudder during build. Changed my mind and made assembly swing out/in for "ease of use." Formerly was conventional dagger setup. And here's the D mast.
  9. Frog

    Sid is no more, got smashed into several pieces. All the broken stuff (7 bulging plastic sacks) has gone to the tip. Main hull is on shore but very broken. Could be repaired, make a proa maybe ... but not by me, interest has strangely waned. Wing mast in two; could be repaired no trouble but no boat to put it on.
  10. Caribbean 600

    Look at that above photograph again, you blokes; see that dirty cloud and look out to beyond the flat water; we're in the lee of Point Chevalier on the Waitemata in that photograph but it was blowing hard outside; in fact we were almost flattened by a hard gust out by Meola Reef, had to ease both sheets and hung there for sometime before climbing out from under the power. There were two reefs in the fore main, treating it like a jib. No problems with steering, helm is light on that boat. Here's another shot out by the reef in some breeze.
  11. Caribbean 600

    Theoretically the double cat rig should be inferior to windward but the Skimmer's rigs are airfoil shaped in cross section and rotating and that perhaps makes a difference, boat is very closewinded. Everyone knows that on reaches and off wind the low but large area schooner is very efficient. There are now T foils on dagger and rudder, off wind boat lifts off.
  12. Caribbean 600

    Just to piss off the traditionalists; here is my other double rig on the Cox's Bay Skimmer, not atwartships though, conventional fore and aft. Initially the wing masts were freestanding but the forward rig bent while carrying full rig in fresh conditions, started letting go near the base in the cantilevered area - so cut off the low sections and changed to lightweight stayed setups. Problem solved.
  13. Frog

    Couple more images. The beam swings fore and aft for legal trailering; that is, if you don't shift hull in early hours on top of car and then the beam later. And this is early image; had to increase the size of the non-floats - as seen in above image.
  14. Frog

    Test sail in a couple of days. Will let you know if successful or disaster.
  15. Caribbean 600

    That was my Line 7 jacket and that sheila was not my sheila but was and still is with a Putiki Bay crazy Waiheke Island man - who was ferrying us out to look at the Angel (but she was cold so I handed over my jacket, like a true gentleman of the '80s). Here's the same boat a couple of years later but with conventional rig, got rid of the angled in floats but changed to angled out foils plus angled out floats, also fitted central dagger in main hull, went to windward like a witch.