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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

      After fifteen years of volunteer moderation at SA, I will no longer be part of the moderation team. The decision to step aside is mine, and has been some time in the works but we did not wish to announce it in advance for a number of reasons. It's been fun, but I need my time back for other purposes now. The Underdawg admin account will not be monitored until further notice, as I will be relinquishing control of it along with my administrative privileges. Zapata will continue on as a moderator, and any concerns or issues can be directed to that account or to the Editor until further notice. Anyone interested in helping moderate the forums should reach out to Scot by sending a PM to the Editor account. Please note that I am not leaving the community, I am merely stepping aside from Admin responsibilities and privileges on the site.


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  1. ETNZ has already sailed with a more curvy foils in Bermuda. They were still batwings just not with as sharp corners as the ones they used in race 1-4. It makes me think the 10% rule offers a whole lot of change - as-in the attachment point for them is not as far out on the horizontal surface as you think - perhaps even only part-way along the first section after the vertical part. (the "10%" rule is based on volume right? If so the volume of the main vertical part of the board will be vastly greater compared to the thinner horizontal part)
  2. This ^. The whole young reflexes thing is complete rubbish for sportspeople until they get past something like 50 or even 55. People with an aptitude for sport hold onto their reflexes to a later age than the average person. As you say, the thing about guys like Schumacher is not the reflexes - it's the ability to perform within the last percentage of performance while under mental duress. That is the aptitude that crosses over into sailing - making calm decisions when you're under pressure. Barker, for all his helming (steering) skill doesn't seem to shine when it comes to high pressure moments. Burling is exactly the sort of guy you want in an AC boat - he's raced hundreds of times in the last 4 years in dozens of regattas including the Olympics, world title regattas etc. Having that fresh in his recent history is a killer advantage even over guys like Spithill imo who hasn't really done a lot of actual racing in recent years. At best 1/4 that of Burling/Tuke.
  3. I haven't looked at the last 2 vids yet but they seemed to spend a lot of time practicing new timings for the crew crossing for gybes in particular. I think they're not going to make up much ground there. They were so close in efficiency in downwind maneuvers most of the time it's more a case of just cutting down on the anomaly ones which cost you another 30+m. Their upwind training in the vids they splashed down so often I think they're struggling to get on top of the smaller tips they need to get a speed kick. And this was in wind 3-5 knots higher than tomorrow is supposed to be.
  4. This is one thing that always irked me about the Barker saga. The team didn't blame him for the loss in San Fran but the (multiple) guys I know who worked/still work for ETNZ have all been pretty frank that the team wanted to move onto someone fresher who could be more involved and eager to learn. The team was scrambling to keep staff together and work out which ones they absolutely had to retain, and who they could afford to retain. Barker wasn't a "must have" person at a helmsman's pay rate. Barker played the public opinion game very well (aided by a PR company) to make it appear like it was all news to him but it wasn't. The team had already let him know their ideal plans for the future and Barker wasn't keen. As someone else said above, his lack of self-analysis or appreciation for what new blood could bring was an issue. They hadn't parted ways with him yet when the story broke but since he'd already adopted the "helm or nothing" stance it effectively was a mutual parting of ways since the helm was not on offer to him. He could have had a major, ongoing role in the team easy as anything but he wanted to be the guy. OR smartly spotted that and put some money together to develop a poodle team which they knew would help their campaign but also be easy beats when push came to shove.
  5. I've been watching the OR practice vids and something keeps happening which I think they're not on top of: optimising grinder coordination when it's needed most. Check the last maneuver starting at 11m 00s here. The crew start to cross - Kyle Langford, Tom Slingsby and one of the gringers go first. The boat turns and then JS crosses to take the wheel from TS. The boat is now slowing down (1 person grinding windward helm, the 2 on leeward have left their station to cross) Everyone has crossed and only then TS jumps into the grinding station to make it 4 grinders in action. For a couple of seconds in nearly the slowest point there is only 1 person grinding - and it's not until they have a few more that they get stably foiling again about 5-10 seconds later. This happens again and again in their turns. Surely they would be better to consider leaving one grinder in the leeward hull until they are stably foiling so they always have two guys grinding? Surely they could get KL to hold the wheel so when TS crosses he can go straight to a grinding station? Or does having to hold a wing-sheet make it too hard reach back and steer from the trimming station? (Another ETNZ innovation advantage - GA can leave the wing 'locked' for a few seconds if needed while PB crosses). Since OR don't do this can we assume it indicates either accumulator allocation issues (they can't send power across to the other side - or need too much for the wing), or it is a point in the maneuver where they have so much to do that they just cannot keep on top of the power generation period? ETNZ has no issues with these roundings at all. Even when two cyclors are still in-transit across the boat. Is this why ETNZ tends to follow their opponents around the same way when they've been trailing downwind? Round the mark - add pressure, make the other boat do a tack as soon as possible and then just keep adding the pressure until they can't handle it? (Might be easier than reading wind shifts )
  6. They already sailed with a subtler batwing foil early on in the pre-regatta testing. It was more curved than ETNZ's but then had a definite kink in it. I wonder if they are revisiting it? In reality the day they saw ETNZ sailing with batwings in NZ they would have made multiple sets of tips which aimed to do similar. I would not be the least bit surprised it OR hadn't made wingtips by the dozen to cover for any eventuality/design theme that proved most effective when actually sailing (vs in CFD or tank testing). Actually, if they hadn't made plenty of foil tip iterations I would consider it incompetence. The cost of making them vs the downside of losing the cup make it a no-brainer. If OR are trying them then their issue is getting fully on top of sailing on foils they haven't done much (or any) sailing on - especially in the predicted light conditions. So if they are changing to batwing foils now they are just as screwed as they looked after race 4.
  7. To clarify, the MC issue a measurement cert every day yes - but that's mostly for each day's rudder/foil/tip choice (and where the locked-in trimming range for the rudders is set - which differs depending on the rudder and wind range). Most measured part of the boat are not remeasured and many are taken on an honesty system basically until someone either queries them or they are randomly/schedule checked at some point. To reiterate: most aspects of being compliant with the rules are self-governed most of the time. Boats can go through an entire regatta and have some parts never checked by the measurers.
  8. Exactly. Challengers know they come under closer general scrutiny so they would be more careful (and perhaps therefore more innovative too). Teams who are desperate and trying to bridge a performance gap are the ones which are most likely to resort to pushing the limits of what is allowed.
  9. The first thing to remember here is that the measurers doing a closer inspection on laydays is nothing new at all. The fact these guys visited ETNZ doesn't necessarily mean anything other than they know both teams will have made lots of small upgrades and those will require more time to check than day to day changes. The other, probably more important, thing to remember is most of the measurement rules are self-policed most of the time using an honour system. Teams can do all manner of stuff outside of the rules if they want to risk being caught at some point. History shows teams get pulled up on plenty of things which they argue is fine... but more rarely on bits which they have no real argument to defend them. In theory OR should be the team who are at most risk being out of compliance here, not ETNZ. The reason for this is ETNZ went in as challengerd always do knowing that the challengers always get more scrutiny by the measurers who are effectively still working for the defenders despite the lengths OR has gone to to try and portray otherwise.
  10. I think they discuss stuff a lot more than we realise. Only two guys have to be miced up so ETNZ have PB and GA (whereas OR have JS and TS). but Blair Tuke makes a fair few tactical additions - sometimes you can hear them come through on GA's microphone if he's looking around. You can also hear GA say a fair bit too but he's quite brief about it. Make no mistake and don't be deluded into thinking low communication is some sort of upside - no-one sails these boats without tons of communication. ETNZ just don't have the two microphoned guys talking loud the whole time like OR do with their guys. One thing I thought of which might be useful where you're required to be miced up is to have a couple of lights down in the wells which the sailors can see - like a 15 seconds to gybe/tack light and then a flash at 5 seconds so guys know when to start moving. It could be a sneaky tactical advantage in some situations imo.
  11. I believe I heard Nathan Outteridge saying during the round robin that their chase boat could plug in somehow and top them up just before they cast off before the start clock. So they went into it with a little less hassle. I imagine if one team did it then all teams probably did.
  12. Designers themselves say otherwise. Long-term sailors command a lot of respect within teams and they often have the ear of the bosses too. It's not too hard to make an otherwise good idea look not quite as good as it could be under test conditions. I have no doubt many of the teams saying they considered using cyclors would concede privately they hardly put any resources to investigate the merits properly - as if to scuttle a new idea in favour of the tested. A designer interviewed recently - which was posted here somewhere (from Artemis I think) - said this was why teams likely didn't press further to test the merits of cyclors.
  13. Any chance you could link to the measurers query/reply you are talking about please?
  14. If it was done deliberately it would be too obvious... it would end his career, end any chance of getting sponsorship for any project he was part of for a decade. He would then have no reason not to dob on Larry which would also end his involvement in yachting anywhere in the future - not to mention the whole relationship with BMW etc. Worse even, what if it went wrong and someone died? Actually even causing a moderate injury would be just as bad. The only upside of it happening is Lance Armstrong would start to feel a bit loved again. I.e. it's just not happening.
  15. Bruno Trouble was interviewed today about what Oracle can do to bridge the gap to ETNZ. He was asked whether they might intentionally damage the NZ boat and he said no because "they're sportsmen..." What was interesting is he twice says that OR cheated in San Fran. He didn't even dance around the point. (Apologies in advance for linking to a Mike Hosking interview) http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11880061