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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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  1. Seen in Eastport - Black Pearl

    Oh really...where did you get this information from Carrier pigeon Pretty sure the partners haven't been moved but the rake certainly has. Just like the keel structure hasn't been changed but fin shape has...but what do I know as I don't have a carrier pigeon giving me all the inside info
  2. Seen in Eastport - Black Pearl

    Oh really...where did you get this information from
  3. What's happened to the C&C 30?

    Wow thats not very nice to say Leo! Yes Dan has probably invested the most in the class and I just don't mean money. He is the class president and therefor made the commitment to attend every one design start last year to promote the class, He spends endless amount of hours on the phone and email, He bought a coach boat (It was half the price of the race boat BTW) and brought in Farley to not only coach us but to also help organize Quantums roll to support the class and hold open style debriefs with all the teams invited, Bought a Van so we can house all of our gear in it and also pull the boat ourselves instead of getting a trailer and paying someone else $3.50 a mile to haul it, Either hosted or sponsored all of the class parties to promote comradey. Lets not even talk about all the team gear he buys and actually has paid photographers to not only get cool pictures of us but most of the class to put up on the class site and Facebook page to make sure the class has a good media presence. So yes Dan has probably invested more than everyone else in the class. To be honest without the help of the guys on the boats like Themis/Nemesis, Just a friend, Stark Raving mad, Nyabhingi, and bobsled I think this would just be another class, but these guys (and the guys behind the scenes) have taken the time or money to do the best they can to promote not only themselves but the class and the fun racing we have all be enjoying.
  4. KWRW Predictions?

    Brutus while I am not one to speak for Dan or anyone for that matter I think from what he has told me is as simple as looking at his previous boats he owned (1d35, mumm 30) and his background of sailing on a bunch of the older 2 tonners and 1 tonners when he was in his youth. Like I said I won't speak for the man but I know we are really enjoying the fact that the 30 is such a dynamic boat and has many different modes
  5. What's happened to the C&C 30?

    The class is still alive and from the sounds of things could be in for another growth both nationally and internationally in the very near future. From my understanding almost all of the owners have committed to bringing everything back on line starting at either the annapolis Nood regatta or the NYYC annual. I think it's easy to see how the majority of the fleet really put in the effort to support almost every class regatta the last year and a half and with only one winter regatta scheduled ( KWRW) I think it made sense to allot of the owners to omit the most expensive regatta of year to say resources for the summer. Internationally I have also been told that the builder is working on a possible 7 boat deal headed down under. If this happened I think ( I hope) we will see this boat Get its world sailing international status and grow internationally. I can't honestly say enough good things about the boat and class. It's a great replacement for the mumm/Farr 30 as it's built well enough to go offshore and rips in breeze. It's really unfortunate that the class had a big hiccup in the begging when it had a very hard time defining if it was a owner driver class or a cat 1 driven class. Ultimately I think it not only effected the teams already sailing but also the momentum of the building fleet.
  6. KWRW Predictions?

    Hey guys you have figured out the right boat but I am for sure not the owner Dan. I am however lucky enough to help keep the team and boat running smoothly...I also wash the decks and trim the main but we are very lucky as Dan has not only fostered but implemented the TEAM in our team effort. I don't know what the answer is for everyone and certainly don't pretend to know how to save sailing but I do think that we need to keep pushing to build from the grass roots up. No shame in sailing PHRF with your 1980's family hauler! Its fun to sail against a bunch of like minded folks in similar plastic pieces of shit (I enjoy mine every chance I get). We are all doing this for fun right? I think thats where I get dissuaded about the J70 class. As we already agreed that its hard for the average guy to compete with a no budget team in any class and even though its legal doesn't it seem more reasonable to maybe pick a different platform to sail? When I look at the current state of KWRW I look at the classes and say first WOW we are missing out on the good old PHRF classes that we have always had, the FT 7.5's seemed to work well as a combined effort with north U , the Navigators class (which I think is a awesome way to get people to enjoy sailing) the ORC class (basically phrf), J88 which seems to be a great boat for people looking for a smaller tamed down sporty boat (seems like a great boat for a lot of people)J70 (read above) the C&C 30 (great Grand Prix style racing on a quick 30 footer that have actual measurement checks, sail limits and pro limits! I can't say enough good stuff about this boat or class) J111 35 foot reasonably quick racer cruiser,1 pro, close racing and seems to bring smiles to a wide variety of people, and the TP52's which have basically morphed in small America's cup campaigns. In all of this I personally just can't see how a 21 foot mom and pop sport boat with 3 sails should cost $90000 to do Key west. Major props to Tim Healy for keeping it simple and wining with his friends (Yes I know they are all pro's) I actually really miss the Melges 24 class as I thought it was a great Grand Prix little boat that I think would fit the needs of some of the more competitive J70 teams that may not have the budget to sail in bigger boats like the C&C
  7. KWRW Predictions?

    Sailing does have many different levels of professionalism. We get to compete in anything from the very very basic forms of cruising races all the through the Volvo ocean race/America's cup. Even inside of a event like KWRW we get to see the flying tiger 7.5's or Navigator's course to the TP52's. In my mind sailing does a great job of being inclusive in the regards of finding the right boat/class for just about anyones wants and needs In regards to my comment about the J70 class. I think its a good boat for making sailing easy and for letting people sail with friends and family. I will even say it does a great job of getting a large mass of people out on the line and promote many different regatta's a year. My issue is that (besides the boats not being consistently measured even with all the alleged/confirmed amount of cheating going on) some of the top teams must be spending upwards of $6000-$10000 a day on wages. I am in no way blaming the owners or crews on these boats for hiring top level talent as its all fair and legal but realistically I just have to shake my head and feel sorry for all the "family teams" who bought the boat for its big accomplishment of making competitive sailing easy. Like I said I am not throwing stones because in all fairness I have certainly been accused of racking up the price to compete in the 30 class while at the same time knowing that some of J70 teams are spending not only much more per event than the team I sail with but also more annually. It just doesn't add up to me as to how fostering these kind of efforts in a class that is billed to grow sailing can be good for the class, events, or more importantly sailing as a whole
  8. KWRW Predictions?

    Reading the above really puts a sour note on the already sad state of KWRW. Here is what I know after being lucky enough to spend some time in southern most city this year. Key west really isn't the same wild Wild West culture destination that it was when I made my first regatta back in 1998. Its much more touristy, professional and the obviously the once cheep oasis for wayward sailors isn't nearly as affordable as it once was....Heck I didnt even feel like I was about to get robbed but some drunk vagrant at any point this year The sailing was amazing and probably one of the best weeks of great weather that I have experienced in a while. Somehow with most of Florida being the shit hole that it is the water is still crystal clear sea life is abundant and healthy. Race management was first class, well organized, and well run Good competitors flock to this event from around the globe. Even though we are seeing a decline in numbers I would argue that this event must still attract more international and high caliber competitors than any other single keel boat event inside the US. In my opinion the J70 class in its current format is utterly ridiculous and what is killing sailing. I going to try and not throw any stones but how does a "normal person" even compete in that class at the moment??? Sure we can all argue that the nails are firmly placed in the coffin and this event is dead but I would actually argue that we are so very lucky to have gotten the opportunity to race in this unique venue for so long. I for one am hoping to get the opportunity to head south again and watch the haters bitch and complain while I enjoy racing in the conch republic
  9. She swims! (Poor man's Gunboat)

    Congrats veeger. Any other updates on the boat that you could share
  10. Donovan GP26 starts production in Turkey

    I dont want to rain on anyone's parade and think the GP26 is tremendous value for the money and a very cool little boat in its own regard but I also think that some of the comments above are very egregious in comparing the boats performance to the C&C 30's. I will for sure say that Beasley and his group obviously sail the boat very well and I was very impressed in particular with how quickly they sailed the boat in Annapolis. As was stated above the boat seemed very well suited for the conditions we all sailed in during the distance race and was quite happily surprised with how well they could hang on during the two long jib reaches. Even on Sunday while sailing 2 mile W/L course's I would still say the 26's performed well but to be 100% fair they started 5 min in front of us and from memory we always finished either in the mix or just in front of both of the 26's. I am not bagging on the 26 in anyway and the only reason I stumbled across this is because I was just cruising around and wanted to read up on how these boats are developing since I do think they are a lot of bang for the buck, but just like I would have a hard time comparing the C&C 30 to a boat 15% larger and over twice the cost I dont think its exactly fair or accurate to compare 26's performance to the 30.
  11. The Jobson Retort

    All I can say is wow! All I can say is wow!
  12. The Jobson Retort

    Sorry for the late reply Yes that photos is after the contact. If I had to guess roughly 45secs-1 minute after we were hit
  13. The Jobson Retort

    Canal bottom. Again am I safe in assuming you were aboard courageous for this event? If so again I would like to hear your side about what was going on the yacht before the incident. To be very open and clear from my vantage point extreme 2 was the second boat to windward about a half boat length behind and to leeward of the J88. In the moments prior to the incident we asked for searoom from the 4 boats to leeward and even pulled our sails in to centerline to try and avoid the rocks and create a opportunity to pass behind the boat directly leaward of us (which we were less than 3 feet away from and they were also the same approx distant from the boat to leeward of them). Mind you ourselves and the boat directly to leeward were going less than 3 knots ( in a estimated 2 knot ebb) Very soon after this is when courageous came in at a guesstimated speed of roughly 6 knots immediately to windward of us and first contact was made to the helmsmans head with courageous boom knock him face first into the cockpit floor. Immediately after this is when the boom then him our mainsail, shrouds, spreaders, mast and then the port side from courageous primary winches aft hit our starboard side and compressed a fairly sizeable portion of the boats core and outer skin. Still while in contact with extreme2 is when the J88 was struck and dragged backwords to toward the shoreline at fortadams. It wasn't until our cream members fended ourselves off of courageous ( after the boom even hit the head stay) that we were able to untangle ourselves and get ourselves out of harms ( about the time the picture was taken) This is finally when we could asses the helms mans possible injuries and the condition of the boat. It may be worth noteing tht took a rib over to courageous immediately after docking the 30 to discuss the incident and report our damages and our intentions to make sure everything is handled fairly and amicably. We also stated that we would file a protest for insurance purposes. Upon filling our protest I even texted courageous boat captain to confirm the protest and he responded back acknowledging it. For the first two weeks everything seemed to be getting worked out amicably with courageous boat captain as we kept him in loop via email and texts with our timeline for repairs, very rough guesstimate on repairs and informed him about our up coming survey Everything seemed to be going fine till the tactical got involved and as they say the rest is history.
  14. The Jobson Retort

    Canal bottom. Is it a fair assumption to make that you would have been aboard courageous at the time of the incident? If so I would love to hear what the aboard commentary was when courageous approached a tightly ( if you were on board how large of a separation do you think the 3 boats on the port side of extreme had between each vessel) packed group of boats ahead of them. Also assuming that you were in deed on courageous how long do you think the two boats were overlapped for? 2-3 seconds before first contact was made between courageous boom and the helmsmen head? Is that a reasonable guesstimate? Also still wondering if you were in deed on board could you maybe enlighten me to what speed do you think you were traveling through the water?
  15. The Jobson Retort

    Ok I have been trying to bite my tounge. Courageous after from prodding from a lawyer has admitted fault and crashed into us. That's all well and dandy and finally almost 3 months after the fact we have been contacted by the boats insurance company (we have already repaired the boat) but The article was still written and printed in sailing world. I think the most brutal part in all of this was that both parties were being somewhat co operative until a certain person got involved. I am not sure if it's ego driven or what but it has made this whole experience make a person think twice about the "Corinthian" spirit in sailing. The best part in all of this is that the blame is now being shifted from us to the J88 they absolutely creamed!!! Unfortunately we all make mistakes and sometimes collisions happen in the heat of battle but I would like to think that most people own up to our mistakes and do whatever we can to remedy the situation.