atwinda

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Everything posted by atwinda

  1. atwinda

    Vendee Globe 2020

    I am in awe that from 10's of thousands of miles away, that we can witness the heroics of those directly involved in this SAR via AIS. No matter the outcome, their efforts are truly impressive. Getting four 60'ers in those conditions into a formal search pattern.. Gotta be the first time, right? I'd be so damn happy to see not just one masthead light around, but 4. I wish everyone involved in the operation the best.
  2. atwinda

    Vendee Globe 2020

    How about "Sailor found deceased inside life raft after rescue attempt"- would you still want your logos on the raft then?
  3. atwinda

    Emirates Team New Zealand.

    I think you are likely underestimating the load they can apply to the runners, and overestimating the stiffness of the rig. keep in mind, it may not be bending for and aft because of the rotation. Also keep in mind that all boats (large and small) bend their rigs to depower the main sail- it essentially "pulls the cloth forward" flattening out the shape...
  4. atwinda

    Emirates Team New Zealand.

    Loads of runner = bends the mast and also straightens the headstay. Not to say that the Cunningham isn't helping the bend, but it's likely not the primary control to induce it.
  5. atwinda

    American Magic has a "Bat Wing" main now

    I genuinely believe this mindset does not take into account a cost-benefit analysis. SURE they COULD spend $25,000 to cut the main and battens to try an idea, but is that worth it if you could test the same case for $2000-$4000 and avoid ruining a set of expensive battens in the process? Let's say it didn't work out, and you cut the battens down- if those battens were not specific to that mainsail, you're out a ton more money to use the non-recut main again. And again... Recuts take TIME (the one thing you can't get back), what other sails are they building? With the first regatta a month away, are they going to be bringing new sails online for that... You'd expect those blanks to be arriving around now to be finished by then. Ya gotta make sure the graphics team has plenty of time to paint/apply the pretty sponsor logos on the sails. I don't think "they have money to burn"- that money has to be accounted for and used prudently to ensure the team as a shot of their goal. Spend carelessly and you may not have cash at a crucial moment to develop and implement a new system. ETNZ have been up front about bring new gear online at very late stages of the cycle- and I am sure all these teams are applying an agile mindset to their final configuration. I stand by this was a quick recut.
  6. atwinda

    Luna Rossa Challenge. AC 36

    Or if you put both the rams below deck, and operate it as a floating jib lead, you'd probably have the solution. Conceptually, you need to control in 2 dimensions, and that's what you've diagrammed out. I just don't think this is how they have implemented it.
  7. atwinda

    Emirates Team New Zealand.

    well.. I was wrong. Looks like they decided to beat all the other teams in the ulgy boat contest... wow
  8. atwinda

    INEOS Team GB

    Ben is a bit like a guitarist who can play with the best but can't write his own music- He might have a hit when he can pay the right songwriter, but otherwise, it's just background noise.
  9. atwinda

    Emirates Team New Zealand.

    Boat builders maybe not- however designers, I disagree. I think it was in the Boats and foils comparison thread, but stringray linked a postcast/interview with an ineos designer. The fact is, the designers have software, which they have programmed in some assumptions, and given constraints on a resolution. Those assumptions and constraints are the intuition. They are essentially saying "we looking for solutions between X and Y" but they have to pick what those are. Sure they may expand between runs and subsequent on the water testing, cfd, etc.. but it's all based on assumptions.
  10. atwinda

    Emirates Team New Zealand.

    I would certainly be very surprised if ETNZ B2 wasn't a logical progression of B1, with possibly some influence from ITA B1. However, if ETNZ B2 has a wide flat bottomed moth hull attached to it, I am capable of admitting/acknowledging, I made a wrong call.
  11. atwinda

    Team NYYC

    Then go enjoy your schooners. But if you haven't checked out the J-Class and all the trickle down which has reached those boats you might throw another fit. Sure, Vendee programs have influence in some the areas I mentioned, but you sure as shit can't call up Harken/Carboni/Marlow/Southern Spars, etc.. and let them you'll be needing a part for your schooner. That's just a joke. The AC and Vendee teams are driving their R & D and we're getting the benefits. It's insane to think otherwise. Most "drivers" suck too and need a little help. But apparently, you're a world class starter, so good 'on ya mate.
  12. atwinda

    Emirates Team New Zealand.

    Because I think (as in my personal opinion and not at blanket assertation that I think everyone else should agree with or be wrong and then argue about endlessly) that their design ethos is questionable. Boat one was supposed to be radical, they didn't have time, and they swung for the fences. The barge was radical, but for all the wrong reasons and came up short. When you compare the step between UK B1 and B2 vs AM B1 and B2- AM look to have stepped Iteritately and logically while UK took another swing. It would appear they focused their energy on a few edge cases with the hull, and ran as hard as they could with them. It all just feels like a mess- big swings are rarely a success, and I feel more confident in LR or AM progressive approach at this point.
  13. atwinda

    Emirates Team New Zealand.

    What exactly do you think they'll be able to pull off with all the carbon and glue? Look, I think the UK hull has got to be high on the list of things which should be modified, but it's simply not going to happen. Do you really think someone is going to cut off a bow or the lowest 25% of the hull? Mast shape is OD, so that's not high on the to be modified list. I'm sure they all have their sail allocation plan in place, and the vendors have the carbon and glue lined up to make those sails ... so... where is all that carbon and glue going?
  14. atwinda

    Team NYYC

    That depends on what you consider trickle down. How many hulls out there look like IACC hulls? Even throughout the catamaran era- we got basically one general hull shape, and it was fairly common before that. Trickle down in the AC is never about what you can see on the boats. The general sailing community gets trickle down items like improved cordage, deck gear, electronic systems, manufacturing techniques, etc... Think spar manufactures investing in infrastructure, software, and tooling. Design offices integrating rapid prototyping into their work flow. The software and simulators the teams are developing- could be leveraged for more accurate rating systems for example. An average boat owner will probably never use a piece of deck gear designed for an AC boat, but the AC for sure advances the industry and enables the products that eventually end up in our hands. Take starting systems for example- they were strictly an AC thing until companies started making units that could be fit in high budget race programs, and have eventually resulted in small affordable enough systems, that j-70 owners can hit the line perfectly. That's trickle down- and it didn't happen overnight.
  15. atwinda

    Team NYYC

    Comparing AC sails to Vendee sails in regards to strength and robustness is like comparing an f1 car to a tank. Sure they are both vehicles and roughly do the same thing, but one designed for outright speed and agility, and the other is designed to withstand an explosion. When it gets down to what the AC75 demands in terms of sail shape, shape retention, and trim reaction, I believe three of the teams have a very large advantage in their choice. Or at the very least, they get so much further down the track from the start without the effort of coaxing the relatively more stretchy string membrane to be as responsive as 3Di. I'm not saying they haven't gotten the string membranes there, but why start off trying to make a 30 year old technology catch up to a (roughly) 10+ year old technology? I also should recognize that Vendee sails have been getting lighter over the years as well (so that the single handed skippers can manage them more effectively), but generally speaking they are built to survive a lap of the planet and not a few laps of an inshore race course.
  16. atwinda

    Team NYYC

    As @MaxHugen mentioned - they are carbon fiber. The thing with 3Di is that they can blend a variety of fibers together in a single sail. The early 3Di sails were mostly carbon and dyneema internal load tapes, with a white polyester cover layer that appeared grey providing some chafe and handling resistance. As the development and confidence progressed in 3Di the push for performance saw the elimination of the outer layers to save weight. As far as the color being added is concerned, they can and have added pigment to the poly layers off early sails, but you have to be a high paying customer, and willing to take the weight hit for something like a custom all red inventory (think Puma in the VOR). Other sail makers who still rely on "string" membranes do have to include a pigmented taffeta layer in their laminates to make their sails look black. They may claim some longevity benefit from the taffeta, but really it just adds weight. Which I suspect is the reason why we see AM's Doyle / Quantum rags as a translucent grey. They have pushed the weight savings by using something lighter than taffeta. Which they must need for some reason - likely that it adds some stability to the voids between the fibers.
  17. atwinda

    Emirates Team New Zealand.

    The picture shown was explained as part of the measurement process. Something along the lines of, the only way to accurately measure the CG of the mast + twin skin sail combo was to rig everything up and suspend it to get the measurements. I'm not saying they aren't doing more once it's all up in the air- setting initial batten tension would certainly be a ton easier when you can walk up to the batten, rather than fussing with an adjustment 10's of meters off the water.
  18. atwinda

    Team NYYC

    @JALhazmat @Mozzy Sails Apparently, I had too much trust in text- My intention was that this was an old sail recut within the limits of allowed change possible to chase some theoretical benefit. It may be they are trying to reduce sail area and using the ISAF bridged batten rule to get around it, but it's still a recut of an old mainsail. Mozzy- I'm not sure if you're in the sail making business with a name like Mozzy Sails- but I will say confidently that it would take between an hour to two hours to rework each batten end on a mainsail like that. for 16 full length batten ends at an average of 1.5 hours is 24 hours- just for the batten ends. That doesn't include a few hours of layout and edge taping of the leech and other potential internal systems we can't see maybe need to be reworked, or leech/flutter battens we might not be able to pick out in the photos. I'd throw out an estimate that labor (per hour of the employee) and materials are in the upper $3k range (USD) to do the job (that estimate, is considering that the teams are unlikely paying retail for materials, and per hour labor rates of the employee. Retail rates and business per hour rates would bump that up to substantially more), (I'm sure $4,000 of simulator time is more worthwhile than a 1/2 ass recut). However, if you subtract the cost of the batten end rework, you're looking at far less. Then you have to consider the theory you're chasing, and the risk vs reward on that. Did they OK that concept of measurement with anyone first... that would be a pretty high risk. So you might have a designer backed up by some modeling and simulator time say: Designer: "in breeze over X knots, a Y % reduction in sail area might be beneficial..." Management: "how sure are you can get that past measurement if the cloth girths are way under the measured girths?" Designer: "well yeah, that's a thing... but we have this old main, which we fucked up, and it was too flat to get going in light air.. but it would be perfect for this..." Management: "ok how many man-hours will this take away from the new sails which need to be finished?" Designer: "so here is the thing, we have to change all the batten ends, and cut $10,000 worth of custom made battens..." Management: "nope- we need to be sure this will work before we commit." Designer: "" Management" "yeah, na, mate." Designer: "ok.. so what about if we do a quick and dirty and it only takes 1/3 of the time, and save the battens?" Management: "Alright- now we're talking." Another thing that tells me this is a blind attempt is that the fiber structure in that main is completely fucked. With a large majority of yarns originating from the clew or the leech near the batten ends (higher in the main) going towards the head forward (attachment point) they cut out a ton of load-bearing fiber. On one hand, they could be seeking a main that twists more readily, and the lack of fiber might facilitate that, but it's unlikely given the leech loads on a 75'er. Those load paths along the new leech were not designed with enough fiber to not tear apart given their new role (in a recut, I'm sure they added external "tapes/yarns/think X-Drive" to the leech to prevent this). Also, these are old school D4 or whatever process Doyle/Quantum want to call it, membraines. If they really wanted to build a new main like this, from what I have seen when I was more in tune with their technology, they weren't able to lay yarns in batten-to-batten patterns as would be required for such a main. The horizontal batten loads (which I am assuming are high given the level of shape control required through the mid section not controlled by foot/head internal shaping controls) all the way out to the batten ends would need to be accounted for, as well as the now mid batten leech loads. I believe it would just be too much for their software and tooling. On the other hand, North's 3Di tapes would allow the North teams to perfectly pull off something like this should it prove rule compliant and ultimately a performance benefit. So if (and that's a big if) this somehow works, it would not have benefited them to try this in public at a point when all the other teams can execute this concept with a higher degree of shape control.
  19. atwinda

    Team NYYC

    Only the lower batten is close to the 1/4 girth. so I don't think saying they are measuring out to the ends of the pockets for the measurements. However, if they use the projected span between the battens, then it might keep them compliant (ISAF rules). I still think it's a quick and dirty recut, as the sail shows several signs of reshaping in other areas as well. It's also 16 full length battens, not the 8 I previously mentioned.. and 16 pocket ends to rebuild- twin skin and all. (I realize yellow lines are preferred- I like red. Also, I realize that dividing the clew to head the way I showed is only close to accurate. In real life when the sail is folded for measurement, the 1/4 and 3/4 will end up in slightly different locations, but not drastically so, that it invalidates the purpose of the lines displayed (that the batten ends are not placed at 1/2 or 3/4 to bend the measurement rules)
  20. atwinda

    Team NYYC

    I'd guess they needed to try a smaller main for some reason, and the cheapest/easiest recut was what we see in that photo. Anyone who has had to re work batten end closures knows that would take the most time in that re cut process. Maybe they have really complicated closures. Or maybe those battens fit another sail, and it wasn't worth cutting them. A set of 8 C-tech battens or custom made equivalent can't be cheap.
  21. atwinda

    New instrument?

    They are attempting to get the sensors away from the disturbed flow around the mast/main for more accurate data measurements. You typically see masthead anemometers up higher on an instrument crane (as any bowman who's gone aloft knows) or in the case of these poor tp52 sailors, aloft has a slightly different meaning. Once you introduce rig rotation into the mix, things like AWA become very tricky to calculate, so they are likely taking several different readings and crunching the numbers to determine calibrated values. They've all had various bow sprit mounted sensors at some point as well. They probably also house cameras. I don't think we'll see upper end plate / wings by the match. I'm not positive, but I doubt they're in the rule.
  22. atwinda

    AC 75 foils legal (shit)storm?

    According to scuttlebutt: https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2020/10/27/team-new-zealand-defends-ac75-design/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Scuttlebutt 5686 October 28 2020&utm_content=Scuttlebutt 5686 October 28 2020+CID_2ac09fd4e630f22f3fb124fec54d0cb6&utm_source=Email Newsletter&utm_term=Team New Zealand defends AC75 design I'm guessing ETNZ have had their lawyers review all this and ensure all their ducks are in order before they issue a statement like that. And given their ability to shed the legal drama that Mayo and Calder / NZ Media attempted, have displayed a track record of keeping it clean. I very much doubt Mr. Chaves will get more than a passing media minute outta this.
  23. atwinda

    Luna Rossa Challenge. AC 36

    pretty hard to add sail cloth back to a molded main, so they marked out where they thought it should go and verified it before fitting the window and cutting it out back at the loft/base.
  24. atwinda

    INEOS Team GB

    I'm not sure those are new design approaches for blubs- if you do an image search for "IACC keel" you'll get a ton of examples- but basically keel bulbs have been shaped with aft chines and flat trailing edges for quite a while. I don't know who did it first, but it appears commonplace among the IACC, TP52, IMOCA 60, VO65 fleets.
  25. atwinda

    INEOS Team GB

    I'm going to suggest the simplest option- It's two tracks that allow in/out adjustment side to side. they still have to tack the jib onto the new sheet lead through the opposite car. And besides, isn't the mast step somewhere in the middle there. in the video showing their b1 mock up, you could see their floating lead arrangement- so they must have decided that a in/out car was a superior option than a full floating lead.