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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

johnnysailor

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About johnnysailor

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    Anarchist

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    Newport RI
  1. I definitely agree with this. There's no way that any practical handicap system could equalize very dissimilar boats even for a very specific set of conditions, let alone equalize dissimilar boat characteristics and account for a wide range of conditions. Good PHRF racing depends on having enough roughly similar boats within a reasonably narrow rating band to make a fleet or class. So if you want fair and competitive PHRF racing: a) choose a boat that has a lot of "cousins" actively racing in your area; and b ) encourage more participation.
  2. Sailiboat racing is a lot of fun PHRF works for the most part especially for non pros I agree stop the bitching and go racing !! We need to get more boats racing !! Boats ratings get sorted out over time
  3. Well said !!
  4. Yachtscoring back up J88's had a good day !!
  5. How was the racing today ?
  6. Wow that is some interesting reading. Seems to not have a lot of friends. I can see why
  7. It seems you have a very good system. YRALIS should look at it. I agree weight limits should be removed from PHRF. I know at certain events you have to sail with the same amount of crew each day. This stops boats from sailing with 9 on windy days and 6 on light days. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. What I do know is thats it a rule now and it needs to be followed.
  8. Any responsible boat owner knows the weight of their crew and races at or below the weight limit if you don't and are sailing over the weight limit than you are cheating. Boats may get away with it but that doesn't make it right. It would not surprise me next year to have boats come in from racing and are asked to have there crew weighed especially after this incident It would just be nice if everybody played by the rules and we didn't have to deal with this shit
  9. ]I'm saying all of the rules apply all of the time. Cheating on weight and cheating on the race course are the same thing. You can't choose which rules you'll obey, and if you don't have the integrity and the balls to own up when you know you cheated, you don't belong in the sport at all. Is that pretty clear? Very well said !!!!
  10. I won't call you by your first name but as the helmsman during MBYCFS on Hustler I think you know we aren't talking about 25 lbs here but like a full person and perhaps then some. While I think you are right about weight limits being played fast and loose, we aren't talking about the margins that you guys were protested for. While I think the weight limits should go, as I have made clear earlier in this thread and to members of the YRA board, I sure as shit don't think they should just be disregarded while still in play. Now beer cans aside (because it is tough when too many crew show up although if it gets silly we have offered up crew to other boats or RC), if I sailed on a boat that regularly pushed the rules in this or any other fashion, I surely would find another ride than be labeled as one who is a cheater himself. Sorry, but that is the reality and you should think about what that says about you. Loyalty is a wonderful thing and Johnnie should think himself lucky to have such people as members of his crew. So it is a shame if heels get dug in and you all go down together. Everybody knows Hustler has/was sailing overweight. The pictures are the proof. They may get away with it but like someone said before "you can win and keep the pickle dish but when you lose the respect of your competitors is it really worth it". This will follow Hustler for a long time. They had better be smart with the crew weight in the future because they will have a target on there back. I do not think Hustler has a lot of friends in the J 29 class and they would love to screw H over. Rules are rules they have to be follow them whether you believe in them or not
  11. We can argue back and forth about weight limits all day. Right now they are a rule in YRALIS. It is clear Hustler has broken the weight limit rule not just in this regatta but many others as well. Rules need to be followed especially in sailing. You can't decide on your own that a rule is not needed in your opinion and ignore it. Thats wrong !! When you break a rule you need to do the right thing. I agree with past posters that this is a realy bad situation for Hustler and could become a very big problem for them. I spent some time reading the owners past post and I can see why he does not have alot of allies outside his circle. I guess what comes around goes around. Very interested to see how this ends. No matter what happens Husters repuation will never be the same. I think what's actually being said is that Hustler is wrong for cheating AND Smokin J is wrong for taking their sweet time with the trophy. Remember, as a self policing sport, the onus is on each of us to know if we broke a rule and correct ourselves -- not wait for someone to protest us (then do nothing). I don't think there's any question Hustler would've won by a mile whether they sailed overweight or not. What none of us understand is why they didn't just say "yeah OK fine we will RET and here's the pickle dish back"...especially given that they've won so many it doesn't really make sense that they're clinging so hard to this particular one. This boat, by its own claims, skips regattas now to "give someone else a chance to win" -- so given their large collection of legitimately won silver, what makes this the hill worth [their reputation] dying on? Perhaps they recognize that they have been sailing overweight for years, have not been straightforward about it (some facts suggest disingenuous), and risk having all their wins for years stripped and/or seeing a rule 69 proceeding. Given that potential outcome, a combination of bluster/silence may seem like the best strategy but No. 6 is probably right -- this issue is not going to go away by itself. As far as "on both weekends, knowing that a protest was a possibility, the crew of hustler showed up to be weighed," that's really peculiar revisionist history.
  12. So what is the conclusion here? It is clear Hustler was overweight and cheated !! Are they getting off on a technicality? Is the protest invlaid? Rules are rules and winning knowing you broke the rules cannot feel good. Huster seems to bring so much controversy in every regatta they enter. Not good !!
  13. Well Said !! This^^^. Although I don't think the point is to show what a poor sport the other boat is. Just to demonstrate that they were mistaken, if that were the case. Everything doesn't need to be a shitstorm or scorched earth. We, for the most part, are amateur sailors. It isn't a 24/7 deal and as such minding that we don't go 50 lbs over crew weight limits (or whatever), filing the perfectly crafted protest, impaneling a Protest Committee with well honed judgment and depth to get it exactly right, this just isn't our fate. Nor should it be, nor should any one of us expect it to be. In an ideal world, which I hope no one here or involved in this thinks is possible, Smokin J would withdraw the protest, the PC would recuse itself and Hustler would withdraw with all agreeing that mistakes may have been made. Then retire to the bar, buy each other a drink, shake hands and leave the room as friends.
  14. So what is the status of the protest? It is pretty clear they were over weight. Can they prove it ? Hustlers reputation has certainly taken a hit from this no matter the outcome. I agree with No.6. Someone needs to do the right thing here. Agree with what you have said with the exception of "bent" the rules. They broke them or they did not break them. "Bend" not an option. Me personally, I don't see how the math works out to 1260. Perhaps I am wrong - we will never know. Knowingly sailing above the limit on your certificate is cheating. Maybe you get called out . . . maybe you do not . . . doesn't change the fact you are cheating.
  15. This all seems pretty simple. There is a weight limit now of 1260 for a 29' boat in YRALIS. if 4 crew are 230+ like this person said that is 920 lbs. The limit is 1260 lbs. That leaves 340 lbs for the final 3 crew members. I really doubt there 3 remaining crew weigh 113 lbs each. It seems the boat in question is over the allowable weight. It looks like they broke the rule. I do not know the penalty for this offense. We can argue whether the rule should be changed but it was in place for this regatta and needs to be followed. Weight on the rail is a benefit in anything over 8 knots. I do not know the details of the protest but it is important in sailing to do the right thing. It will be interesting to see how this works itself out. Why do you say that there is no reason to hear the protest? Boat sailing with 7 right? Limited to 1420 or so right? So an average weight of 203.... but 3-4 clearly north of 230 or more. So 4 guys at 230 equals 920. So 500 left under the cap for the remaining 3 you get 167 each. Hmmmm, looks like the bowman might come in under that. So it seems there might well be good reason for the protest under current PHRF weight limits. You can argue the technical aspects of this and I fully agree they should have had the crew drop down to their skivvies and hop on the scale when they had their chance. Put at least the basis for the protest to bed. So the club could demonstrate compelling reason to extend the time limit, to allow the protesting boat time to gather necessary info from the PHRF Certificate and committee. So the question becomes why the PC Chair tabled the protest after determining it was valid. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that the C felt that this being a certificate issue, that the PHRF Class Measurer would be the one charged with conducting the weigh in. Fatal flaw right there if that is the case.