• Announcements

    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

About maggie40738

  • Rank
  1. Wess, Do you know what is the criteria NOOD used to determine the "most competitive class"? I would think that a class in which the top 4 boats were within 1 point would be the most competitive. No?
  2. I had this happen years ago. A faster boat than mine hooked the mark and started dragging it upwind of the original location, effectively lengthening the leg for the slower boats. As a slower boat I rounded the mark's original location and was protested for doing so. I was DSQ'd by the protest committee (correctly in retrospect). The PC ruled that a boat must round the mark, no matter where it is. If you don't round the mark you have completed the course in accordance with the rules. That being said, if the mark was moved due to a improper act of the RC, or due to another boat's infraction you could request redress, but you still have to round the mark. In a separate incident our fleet had a boat that was so far behind that the rest of that fleet that the weather mark boat incorrectly picked up the weather mark. The boat rounded the GPS location of the mark (they had taken a hack pre-start) and eventually ended up winning the race (very light air with wind filling from behind). They were protested for not having rounded the mark. The PC found they had not sailed the course and they were DSQ'd; they then requested redress, a second hearing was held and were re-instated to their original finishing position (which was first).
  3. Gentlemen, Please check my facts. Are the following true, or not? 1- Were both Courageous and Extreme2 on starboard, overlapped, with Extreme2 to leeward at the time of the incident? 2- At the time Courageous established an overlap with Extreme2 was there room for Courageous to sail around Extreme2 if Extreme2 had somehow become anchored to that spot? It appears that there was, that the fact that there was an extended yelling match indicates that the shoal was at least several boat lengths away when the overlap occurred. 3- At the time Courageous established an overlap with Extreme2 was there room for Courageous to avoid Extreme2 and the obstruction if Extreme2 continued her course? Clearly not, Courageous hit both the rock and Extreme2 in quick succession. 4- At the time Courageous' boom collided with Extreme2 was there safe room to weather of Courageous? could she have headed up to avoid the collision? Almost certainly not as evidenced by the fact that Courageous hit the rock. 5- At the time Courageous' boom collided with Extreme2 was there safe room to leeward of Extreme2? could she have headed down to avoid the collision? Not sure. There is some testimony that there were other leeward boats. 6- Was the J-88 on port and Courageous on starboard at the time of the collision? 7- At the time Courageous collided with the J-88 was there enough room to weather of Courageous for a J-88 to safely sail parallel and to weather of Courageous who was sailing dead down wind? Given that the J-88 draws 6.5 feet, 3 ft less than Courageous, I suspect that there was 25" of safe water between Courageous' spin pole and the shoal which is all that is needed by a J-88, but given the steep rocky shoreline that might not be true. 8- Was a boat involved in the incident disqualified in a hearing? I doesn't appear to be so. Courageous is scored RET and Extreme2 and the J-88 are scored DNF. Your thoughts? What did I get wrong?
  4. Many years ago I was a partof an incident that sheds some light on what should have happened. 2 J-35s rounding a weather mark to port, overlapped in ~20kts of wind. No 720 rule in effect, if you foul you are DSQ. Port gybe is favored for the next leg (90% port gybe, 10% starboard gybe). Both boats have set up for a gybe set. Both boats gybe onto port after rounding heading dead down wind approximately 1.5 boat lengths apart. The outside boat sets their pole and begins to hoist the kite. The inside boat hesitates, why?... When the kite is at 2/3 hoist the inside boat throws the main over, yells, "starboard" and heads up (slowly) into the port gybe boat. In 20 knots the boat setting the kite is royally screwed (much like Courageous). What happened next? The outside boat hailed, "Nice move, I withdraw, please gybe back" at which point the inside boat gybed back and sailed away. The outside boat dropped the kite, called the RC on the radio to withdraw and headed home. -- Play hard, but have some common sense and try not to break the boats.
  5. Interesting thread. To start with it seems to me that there are 2 incidents at play, the one with the J-88 (red kite) and the one with Extreme2. I believe Courageous is in the right with regard to the J-88. The incident w/Extreme2 depends upon some things that haven't been established by Jobson's article, by the pics, by the movies, or by testimony on this board. - Was Courageous ever clear ahead of Extreme2? Is a 50 year old 12 meter with a fractional, symmetrical kite faster than the shorter, much, much lighter asym. J-88 in light air down wind? Who was overtaking who? Had Courageous passed Extreme2 prior to the first grounding, during which she significantly slowed. If Courageous temporarily slowed to <2 knots when she first hit it's not at all unlikely that she would take some time to regain speed. - If Courageous did overtake from astern, was there room for her to pass to weather w/o hitting the rock at the time the overlap was established? Did Extreme2 alter course to windward, taking Courageous up after the overlap was established? Given Jobson's article's description of the screaming going on that seems possible. If either of these was true the Courageous was in the right. If not the Extreme2 was in the right. We don't know the answer to either of these; therefore, I argue, we don't know who was in the right. Regardless, the damage to a classic yacht of such historical importance is tragic.
  6. One of the more misunderstood rules in the book. I can't tell you the number of times I've heard a weather boat yell "I'm on my proper course you can't take me up." W's "proper course" is irrelevant. Also, L's proper course does not matter until there is an overlap. L can go below her proper course at any time. L cannot go above HER proper course once the overlap is established, but L may go above what W thinks is HIS proper course Prior to the overlap (soon to be) L must avoid (soon to be) W Prior to the overlap W can do whatever HE wants (go up, go down, whatever) As soon as the overlap is achieved W has to take action to avoid L; i.e., if prior to the overlap both boats were driving low and L establishes an overlap 2-3 feet from W then W cannot wait until L heads up to closes the gap and then complain "we're too close, I can't come up." When the overlap occurs L must allow time for W to avoid; if, at the time the overlap occurs, there is enough room for W to maneuver, it would help L in the room if she yelled "Leeward and counted One-one-thousand, two-one-thousand, three one thousand" prior to heading up to her proper course. If, at the time the overlap occurs, there is not enough room for W to maneuver then L needs to avoid W until such time as W has maneuvering space.
  7. I have another theory on why the "Golden Age" of racing that was roughly from 1965 to 1990 occurred. The rise of the golden age of big boat one design coincided with the emergence of comparatively low-cost production keel boats with fin keels. This produced general purpose boats that were comparatively low-cost and could be both raced and cruised for over 20+ years. The longevity of fiberglass boats meant that boats were around much longer, creating an abundant supply of lower cost used boats. This was also a period of relatively stable yacht design. For all the odd bumps IOR created the performance of these lead mines boats didn't really change very much over this period (i.e., Cal 40 built in 1964 rates 120 and the 1979 SORC One Ton winner rated rated 2 seconds slower in PHRF, not much speed improvement for 15 years). Improvements in construction methods allowed for much lighter production boats such as the J-35 and Soverel 33 made the heavy IOR boats obsolete, beginning the decline of the "Golden Age". The Golden Age truly ended with the advent of the very lightweight sport boats that could plane down-wind in moderate breeze and had no cruising accommodations. There was never (and has never been) sufficient demand for large production runs for large planing sport boats (200+ hulls) so the used market never saturated and the fleets dies when the old heavy boats just stayed home rather than race against the small lightweight boats. I'd be interested in Perry's assessment of these thoughts.
  8. Agreed. Should not be on the list if: 1) Not a Rock and Roll Band, i.e., Cherry Poppin' Daddies, are a fun band, possibly under-rated, but not Rock'n'Roll 2) In the Rock'n'Roll Hall of Fame, i.e., Traffic can't be considered no matter how great you think they are cause they're in the hall. 3) Local and Regional acts, Can't claim you're underappreciated in Boston if you never played in Boston.
  9. We were in the same class as you. Saw TWS steady 32-35 with higher gusts for may be 90 minutes. One gust in the low 40s. Wave conditions were exactly as you describe, 10-15 and very confused. Had the storm chute up through the first half of the big breeze. Hit 19+ knots at one point which is pretty fast for a lead mine like the J-120. Wise old mariner say -- "Storm chutes...man puts them up, God takes them down."
  10. The Tubes (great live act)
  11. We were in class 6. The prediction for steep, breaking 20'+ seas with 50+ knot winds against the current in the Gulf stream seamed like death on a stick to us and we didn't want any part of it. That being said, skipper also realized that we had 1-2 days day of racing before we got to the stream so the skipper (w/full support from the crew) decided to start the race and take a look at the 24 hour Radiofax the next morning to determine whether we should keep racing or turn right and sail to the Delaware Bay. Radiofax the morning after the start showed it wound't be that bad so we continued on. We had tougher conditions than most, 30-40 knots with 10-15 foot confused seas for ~3 hours, but nothing we weren't prepared to handle. Did blow out the storm kite which kinda sucked. Now, the stupid !^$*#^$ hole we parked in a day later while half the fleet went around us was really painful. Oh well, that's sailboat racing.
  12. In both Case 118 and J4 the boat entitled to room was DSQ'd because they did not respond to the outside ROW boat. I fail to see how either of those cases justify your position. You wrote - "And no green can't delay red getting to the mark once red is owed room to sail 'to the mark'" Yes. Red can be delayed by Green, see Case 70. Where W, the boat entitled to room, is DSQ'd for fouling L while W was attempting to sail the course she deemed was fasted to the mark.
  13. JohnB wrote: "I agree that green fouled red in this case." Under what rule does Green foul Red? It can't be rule 18 for two reasons: 1- Red clearly was not prevented from sailing to the mark because she did, in fact, sail to the mark and round properly; 2- at the time the hard luff occurred there was >1 boat length between Green and the mark, which I think most would agree, is ample space for a boat to round a mark. The fact that Green delayed Red from getting there by using legal tactics does not change the fact that room was provided.
  14. Question1 do you think Red has a right to mark room, Yes if not, why not? Question 2 If you think red has a right to mark room, Yes under what circumstances does she have a right to sail 'to the mark'? While within 3 boat lengths, which is the entire incident; however, (sailing to the mark) /= (sailing proper course to the mark). Performing two gybes, and going beyond the lay-line to reach up to the mark is still "sailing to the mark" If you dont think red has a right to mark room, why does green have to allow her space to safely fit between green and the mark, and why only if she is still overlapped at that time?
  15. Red's proper course does not matter. Green is allowed to force Red to sail a completely improper course. Red must avoid Green, who is the ROW boat. Green can sail anywhere she wants as long as she does three things: 1 - Allow Red time and opportunity to respond to Green's maneuvers 2 - Green may not sail beyond Green's port layline; whether Red is forced to sail beyond the layline or not is not germane, nor is it germane whether or not Green's course forces Red to gybe 3 - Green must allow enough space for Red to safely fit between Green and the mark when Red gets to the mark if, and only if, Red is still overlapped inside of Green