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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

bucc5062

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  1. THis makes a lot of sense given what Dalton said at the AC post race presser. He specifically mentioned the VOR as one of the events that he'd like to blend into the AC so the sport is not as "splintered" or fractured (forgot which one). The AC held in NZ, an NZ stop over, it wouldn't be hard to imagine an NZ sponsored boat of some kind. How exciting. If this happens, it might also be a clue as to what the next AC boats may be (foiling assist monohulls). Then you have the next VOR in FA IMOCA like boats, two years later the AC in FA monos with NZ getting a lot of press and attention. Bets that we get an announcement in 7 days in securing a VOR boat and soon after, NZ AC will announce their protocol for the next Event. Found this in the next article...now it gets really interesting.....
  2. At the moment it seems T*3 (Turn the Tide) is the original Vestas but the AIS name has not been changed. So the missing boat, if AZZAM is Scallywag is the boat formally name SCA. One of those white hulls became BRUNEL (rebranded? ) so this will get interesting, because what or who is that other white hull?
  3. I currently have Vestas 11th hour (Formaly Alvemedica) in Portsmouth Position Received:1 hour, 16 minutes ago (2017-07-19 16:25 (UTC)) DongFeng near Lorient Position Received:1 hour, 49 minutes ago (2017-07-19 15:55 (UTC)) Brunel is near Lisbon Position Received:4 minutes ago (2017-07-19 17:41 (UTC)) Mapfre Somewhere in Spain Position Received:3 hours, 57 minutes ago (2017-07-19 13:49 (UTC)) ADU Not found in my fleet from marinetraffic. Team AKzoNobel near Lisbon Position Received:1 hour, 48 minutes ago (2017-07-19 16:00 (UTC)) Vesta Wind Near Lisbon Position Received:1 hour, 33 minutes ago (2017-07-19 16:17 (UTC)) I cannot find SCA, which might mean it's on the dry and getting a new AIS id and branding
  4. You might want to give that timeline a little stroll. First, DC won the Cup in Feb and NZ did not send a Challenge till July of the same year. That is hardly a surprise, but it was within the rules of the Deed. NZ had the right to challenge in any boat and if you read the timeline, they gave Bruce Farr 3 days to design a 90' boat so it was not like he had one in his pocket. Second, once the challenge was presented at least two syndicates jump on right away and at the end of the year, there were at least 8 wanting to take up the challenge. The whole time this is going on DC and the SDYC are dicking in the courts to try and stop what was a legal challenge and one that others were willing to join in on. Third, read on further, NZ was willing to give extra time for the US Defender to design and build a matching boat and time and time again DC and his cronies pushed it off. Dennis Connor and the SDTA acted like dicks throughout the whole set up to the moment they announced they were going to race a Cat. Then they just looked like assholes. They were given a proper challenge that they could have straight up accepted or denied and given up the Cup. They were given plenty of time to design and build a defender boat and instead they delayed and obstructed till some ethically challenged dick figured two 45' hulls is 90ft so....na na na na na. They had 8 challengers interested which would have made for one hell of a visual spectacle for racing and even if they offered Hawaii as the race location, Fey would have agreed, knowing it would be a fantastic venue for such boats. End of the day, the US had a choice to take a high road and attempt to beat Fey with his own boat type and show US technology and sailing was superior or do what they did, shit all over the Spirit of the Cup. Connor jsut gave the blueprint for his little pissant protege Russell Coutts. Both who embraced win at any cost, even if its the deconstruction of an Icon.
  5. I like that approach.
  6. I had qualified for something called the American Eventing Championships in horse riding. Qualifications were not easy and it meant to be a competition of the best in the sport at your level. SOmeone commented to me when I said it was the "best" that that was not true. There were really good teams that maybe qualified, but choose not to go. My response back was, then how would they know they are the best? Someone can say I've done it all, but if you are not willing to but it on the line, then it is still just talk. Right now, each one of those skippers stepped up to the plate and are willing to answer the question, are you one of the best? Just the fact that they decided to accept that challenge means they are one step ahead of any other. That's how I see it. People could argue that Glenn Ashby is the best skipper, but since he didn't (or doesn't) want to take on the challenge, it is fair game to question that statement. Best is relative...winner is not.
  7. Wow....We really see the world differently if you think '87 compares to 2010. involving or displaying the highest standards of sportsmanship. Whether you want it to only apply to amateurs, the ideal should resonate with all athletes and 2010 shit on the thought, the word, and the deed. 2013 just kept up the diarrhea and finally in 2017 somebody bunged up Russell's ass so at least no more shit would spew from him. The problem with trying to cheat to win is that it never really turns out well for all parties. I'll go back to the original topic and hope for this: That NZ chooses a 60-70 ft monohull Foil Assisted. No canting keel to reduce and need for stored power. No water ballast that is picked up or drained via power. Open design on keel, foils, rudders, soft sails, box design on hull, and standard standing rigging and hardware. That they sail in the Spring in the Hauraki Gulf to garner as much wind variation as indicated at that time and the do not limit racing conditions short of extreme unsafe or almost zero wind conditions. That they OTA broadcast the event as well as streaming live over the internet with video/sound on the boats, in the air and on other chase boats. That they push a nationality rule that puts at least 50% of the crew as native or long term citizens, but relaxing sail and boat construction. Design comes from nationality/ That they run courses that would give a 60-90 minute race with multiple laps with a minimum of 3 races a day. And most of all, attempt to cost it such countries/rich people/corporations will want to challenge and build and not play the event out in courts. Oh and ban Russell Coutts, Larry Ellison and anything they touch from entering. Even if it meant no US representation.
  8. There is bending, then there is twisting, then there is Connor making a mockery of them. I used the word Corinthian in regards to the spirit of, not some form of physical racing. Sure, NYC/US held the cup so long, because they gamed the system to some degree, but they also built good boats. They didn't try to win a horse race by bringing in a car and arguing that it still touches four spots on the ground. The US got beat in 83 because the Aussies built a better boat, but it took a full 7 races to win it. 83 and 87 where the height of that corinthian spirit, 88 was the lowest and after that, RC/LE just decided to keep it in the gutter. I'm no fan of foiling Cats in the AC (or any at this time), because other than speed, they are boring to watch unless they fail dramatically then they seem done for the day. They are boring, because you see nothing of crew work, other than scrambling side to side then back to two guys sitting in their cockpits and 3 guys pedaling hard. However I also don't like FF Cats in the AC, because to me, they do not represent the best spirit of the Event. They started as a cheat, they got put back in one of the worst ACs every held. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_America's_Cup That was a cluster fuck from the start, but interesting to note that at one point, GCYC was willing to go monohulls to move things forward. Everytime I see a Multi in an AC all I am reminded about is the joke they made of this race.
  9. NZET shot by a huge arrow.
  10. +1000 Well said!
  11. The same could be said for yours, but at least Jay backs his points up with reasonable facts. If the AC was protocol'd to go with FA monohulls, then those competing would work to find the best technology to fit into that model. That then fits your view that the AC is about winning and about technology. There is nothing, nothing that requires a cup owner or challenger to stay with what was or if they do make a change, part of the decision will be "will it give advantage over others?" and "will it drawn attention?" Going back to '88. What would have happened if DC, instead of cheating, had actually tried to build a 90 ft sailboat to compete against NZ. He may have won, he may have lost, but he at least would have kept to a spirit and yes I'll say, a Corinthian approach to the game. Instead of IIAC(?) we may have seen 70-80 foot yachts. By cheating, and that is all how I see it, he opened the door to a level of rule twisting and thinking that has actually dragged down the AC as a whole. Yes, we get it,you love fast cats, but if trends continued, those cats could be the swan song of the AC. As to those who talk about the "boredom" of watching IIAC or even 12 meters races, gimmie a break. You know the out come. Of course it is boring. It would be like popping in a 92 Daytona race when Jeff Gordon was a rookie and almost beat Earnhardt. I watched the 500 mile, 3+ hours race live and at the time it was intense. If I tried to watch it now, yep, boring. Y'all love the AC35, but that was because it was unknown. Will they come back, won't they. Will they spill....Wait a year or two. Watch it again, all of it and tell me how intense it is. People love to watch games like Baseball or Cricket. Talk about old and slow. Some games can last 4 hours and when you add up the time they actually did something for 35 minutes. yet people still watch and watch in large numbers, because while they know most of it is boring, the unknown of the game is what they are waiting for. American Football, 3 hours of play and again maybe actual effort 20 minutes. I watched live when S&S blew a genoa in a hug blow with a good lead. I watched them clear the deck, set a new sail the whole time NZ was climbing up their backs. All that at maybe 7-8 kts but I was on the edge of my seat. The rest of the race I held my breath as S&S held off the Kiwi's. If I watched it today, the whole race, I'd fast forward to the good spots. Boring is not defined by speed, but by the knowing. This AC35 had nothing but the same, but faster. One day someone will fast forward to the exciting moment, because most of the race is just the same, two boats sailing in straight lines till they have to tack.
  12. Yes, I see the resemblance. One is a high tech boat that brings joy to 10s if not 100s of kids (adults really) that can handle it and one is a massively expensive one off that requires grunts to make it work and can be sailed pretty much by only a few people in the world. At the end of the day, I think the foiling kites got it the most right. It is dumb to put a foil on a opti for at some point, it just goes back to being a hull in the water. Foils on cats, hull still in the water and I've love to see one attempt to lift a hull on a hot summer day on Lake Hartwell where a top breeze may be 5 kts. Foiling kites at least understand that who gives a fuck about the hull. Get that slab of plastic out of the water asap so the real "fun" can begin. However, in the spirit of good will, let's all get behind the AC hosting foiling moths (or Optimist) for at least we'd see actual crew work and not cyclists or computer assisted tabs. I'll accept that the guy in that opti is more a true sailor than Captain Kirk pushing buttons and pedals.
  13. Well said thought "keel" may be your undoing. Now I'm fired up enough I may get a sailor I know to put a foil on a Buccaneer 18 and see what happens. Viva la Foil! But still no FF cats in the AC :-)
  14. Just to be sure.....this boat is akin to an AC50. Man I hope you say yes. One hull, one rudder, limited crew. I sailed one of these for years, never knew I was sailing the precursor to an AC50. Cool. (byw, crew are two good friends of mine and rare was I able to see them in that direction.)
  15. But you missed the point of difference. Foiling vessels that lift the entire body out of the water is different than foiling assist where the extension is used for righting moment more than lifting the boat out of the water. Yes, VG seems to have led this movement in monohulls and I don't think most sailors mind the evolution. In terms of HP racing, FAs (foil assists) are here to stay and might one day move to the mainstream market. Full Foiling (FF) is a different beast all together and may or may not make it past the edges of the sport. Like other boutique disciplines FF have a place and may grow, but as I said before, the total cost of entry will always be a barrier. Interesting side note to support that notion. The year the Rubik's cube came out the world went nuts. By the second year sales were in the 100 Millions and they held a world championship. That was 1982. That was the last one held for decades for within the next 2 years sales dramatically dropped as people discovered, it was hard to solve the Cube. Not until the internet came along and folks posted algorithms to help solve the puzzle did it have any resurgence and today they are back to having a world championship. Total cost of entry cannot be ignored when promoting something new and different. Glenn and Pete could go around giving all sorts of encouragement for FF cats, but despite their star power, only a few will truly make the effort. The whole thing about arguing that the AC is about the "best" is that best is relative to the discipline. The best could be the best monohull designs today if that was decided. The best could be the best FF cats. The choice is up to the current owners of the AC. Someone said that the AC is not about spectators...wow....in the end, who do you think pays for those boats. If people don't watch then it reverts back to a contest amongst very rich individuals who don't give a fuck about our opinion. I'd rather spectators matter, that the owners of the cup consider that very hard and determine which discipline may bring in more of them and then try to make the "best" design win.