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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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Everything posted by rgeek

  1. Ac50s designed for Bermuda would be unsuited to sailing some where else entirely? That is the revelation of the day right there
  2. In terms of ACEA intentions i recon Mr Clean has called that one right
  3. Hats off to the TNZ pr machine. Side stepped responsability for probably the most controversial part of the up coming protocol. Got it out early so we can get the wind and piss out of the way. And have set them selves up with their public as the defenders of sporting virtue again. All by letting the awd fella have his moment in front of his home crowd. Fair fucks Soooo who else is going to get in the middle of this good cop bad cop show down?
  4. So how much of a design advantage does LR have at this point?
  5. And so, once again, ETNZ will be the plucky defender of sporting morality and the little fella up against the tyrannical machinations of the old world establishment.
  6. I pray you are wrong. I fear you are right.
  7. One recent observation (or at recent reutterance) that I keep coming back to: for sailing to be interesting it has to be held where there is (a lot of) wind Freeman the had it. SF had it. But for 1 day Bermuda was a wash out.
  8. Both true and not true. For sure the innovation in technology came came from small boats, specifically moths, and format from the EXSS. But do you feel there would of been the rash of foiling adoption and interest in multihulls with out AC34, the AC WS and AC35? Except for half a dozen 60s, a couple of minis and some messing about on the Swiss lakes mono foiling doesn't really exist but for the moth, which is a great proof of concept but can you imagine a 30ft moth let alone a 60ft one?
  9. Cost Improving build quality and building to tight build standard takes investment or labour or both. It's usually justified by adding carbon to the lay up and saying "the boats are expensive but they last for ever". The j/70 wouldn't be the massive world wide hit it is if it cost what that would take. May be one set of 'production' rules for the Corinthians and a 'grand prix' set for people who want to pro it up might be worth consulting on.
  10. Oh god no. That's the least of it. Even when a fleet is 10+ years old with second hand values under 10k some point someone will enter 2 boats an event and pay for a crew for the second boat who do nothing except sail out to the course, do a 2 boat tune up and then DNS. Or when a design is 50 years old there will still be a premium for old boats in specific sail number ranges. Or people will buy 2nd and 3rd boats so that they can buy more sails than regulation. Or how about dropping over 1 million US on a single campaign including a near year long on site sail development program. (these are not all j/70 examples, just boats I the same size range)
  11. 2 boats passed measurement and 1 initially didn't but was put into order with the keel of a 4th.
  12. It doesn't go away though. It'll accelerate as people have boats almost rebuilt from the ground up to push the tolerances into what ever corner they feel will maximise performance and everyone will feel they have to spend to compete or don't have access to the knowledge required to get on the same page. Go to measurement stations etc. and people will strip the boats back to glass and reshape them.
  13. Come off it. The GP14 has super wide tolerances in order to allow for home build using 4x8 sheets of ply by a dad and son using 1970s techniques! Same with most of the classes in the UK from that era ... most of which don't actually refer to them selves as one design. The more serious guys head down to Devon and ask Morrison to create something at one end or the other of the tolerances. Just read the write up from the last Merlin Rocket nationals for an idea of the carry on that goes on with very small changes each year or so presented as brand new boats. The 505 is another example. Even the Wayfairer guys go at it FFS. Once you hit GPR construction the ones that have their own molds or a single builder use exactly the kind of rule that the J/70s are using. Exposed to a high level of competition the cost goes through the roof any way you shake it. Take the money spent on the JK Stars by the UK/IRL guys for the Olympics. Or Rita or their 470s. Or the effort gone into on centreboard twist for the 470 by the Australians. Controlling costs in a class is 100% about controlling the aspirations of the guys at the front of the fleet, who set the tone for everyone else.
  14. The builder who did the work should be added to the measurement team for the next event
  15. Even badly translated the bit that didn't get quoted here is a classic!
  16. A perception that the boats are truly one design just adds value to winning the World Championships. That's just throwing fuel on the fire.
  17. The problem with that argument is that the number of people who want to play that game is small and everyone else will eventually walk away. The problem? it's catch 22. You cant have a big (Championship) fleet unless the boats are economical to campaign and the regatta sociable. That means wide build tolerances, popular holiday destinations/where there is a fleet and days racing rather than sitting on the beach waiting the everyone to pass measurement. Wide tolerances become material when it comes to winning in a big fleet and big fleets attract people who like winning (even better beating lots of other people) more than they care about how or the people they beet.
  18. Agree with that, only sod the challenger series and defender trials. I build mine, you build yours. 1 on 1. If not that do anything you can get away with. Teams for the challenger and defender being decided by a contest everyone takes part in, a knock out competition where the cup may change hands a number of times during the tournament before ending up with a winner (from a match that may not include the team of the club that held the cup at the outset) or a league structure where the winner isn't decided until the end and on points per win. They can all be made to fit into the letter of the DoG and they're all fairer than anything we've seen wit CoRs, LVCs and defender trails.
  19. 26 to 6. No one ... well hardly anyone, certainly not me ... on here thinks the AC is about participation. As for the impact the AC has that's exactly what I meant by "unfortunately". Cat or massive monohull on that score? It's like arguing whether Everest or K2 is the hardest mountain in the world to climb (yeh I know, neither). You can make a similar argument about the impact of high performance Olympic programs too. Or one guy in the fleet buying new sails to often. Whose calling for "hyper performance"? Just faster than anything else will do. Not for the sake of encouraging participation, because knowing that you're watching the best the sport has to offer makes it more interesting. I recon the fellas who wrote the DoG would of rolled over in their graves right about 1964 and pure crawled out of them and done a runner in about 1983. If we're going back to consider their apparent motivations then participation is straight out the window. The DoG is basically: You build a boat and challenge me. I'll build a boat and take your challenge. But lets not get too silly and no hogging it to your self. The original motivation was to prove national maritime superiority. Boil that down and the spirit of the AC and DoG is progress. You want to take the edge off, make it more sailor led. They at least are more accessible than some billionaire owner. PS what happened to the argument about exclusivity being good for the sport??
  20. Thank for the clarification. For a minute there I thought he was referring to the people Clean was relaxing with as beyond help and automatically unworthy of benefitting from AC35.
  21. "sitting around smoking weed and eating chicken"?
  22. Those 5 teams have been heavily involved in activation as well as the AC. So they've stood by their word. 3 Ms where clearly not deemed a viable class. The Js where rotting hulks, or on their way to being. It's a facile argument anyway but 2007 is the last AC with IACC. No one thought the AC was going to continue in IACC after that. And they're not my figures, they're your figures introduced to prove that participation in sailing is declining during the multihull era of the AC. This entire discussion has been about your repeated assertion that anything but a fairly traditional monohull would be a disaster for the AC and the sport in general. Only you haven't turned up much evidence. Just a participation survey that shows participation in sailing in the US during the period in question is largely static. All I've said is that I recon the sport deserves a figure head competition worthy of the name. I'm all for the best sailors in the most credible, ie. fastest round an 'inshore' course, boats with the minimum off the water drama. (Unfortunately) the AC is that event and it comes with traditions that should be respected and a DoG that outlines what it means. Everything else is compromise. I'm not pro multihull or anti monohull but I am against hitting reverse and taking the tech back to the late '80s. I've argued all along that the AC may be important in terms of the visibility of the sport to the general public but it has marginal impact on participation compared to grass root action. The kind of concerted effort at activation we've only seen recently from AC teams. Me? Couldn't hack a kitefoiler if I tried and not a fan of the dangly carrot thing aesthetically, more power to them though. I race sportsboats and half/quarter tonners mostly. Can't be arsed with anything over 30-32ft to be honest.
  23. Given the "What ever ETNZ says" responses from (etnz35)LP36 when it came to boats etc. it's probably going to be difficult to distinguish them for a while yet at least.
  24. Long wait eh. "competing event" If AC36 ends up with a LunaPoodle36 vs The OtherTNZ death match what is expected of the others while they sort that out?
  25. Very true, but then they where desperate for teams last time out. Now LunaPoodle36 is back at the table I guess that's looking like 1 in, 1 out