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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.


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Everything posted by rgeek

  1. May be for a cycle or two but people will catch on quick if the poor has no clothes
  2. I'm taking a punt on TT moving Artemis to Australia if needed to.meet nationality requirements
  3. I remember the drama about the plastic fantastic and geniker. Though at the time DC was full of it for the same reason you have to grudgingly respect them for pulling the cat out of the bag. Kz1 was amazing. Just made all the nonsense that went on around it all the more frustrating.
  4. Interesting post mako. Thanks for that
  5. Arrogance for sure. Ignorance? Not so convinced. Help me out here, I'm still lost as to what was legally dubious.
  6. Not so much ACEA. I guess the French could sue any of the other teams that agreed to a match under different rules
  7. Some how I doubt blue arrow would of made the start line
  8. Using our preferred example the top level events in cycling are extremely extreme. Take the TdF as a prime example. OK "be inspired" is a fig leaf the UK Olympic teams like to wear but buy and large participation is promoted through events explicitly aimed at, often none competitive, participation. 10k mass participation runs, charity cycle rides, Grand Fondo/Etap etc. The problem you highlight is a lack of follow-up on participation and access, rather then the inspirational nature of the AC or otherwise. Monos or multihulls the impact of the boats used in the AC is marginal. If it has an impact it's in its ability to create heros. If you wanted to improve the instirational nature of sailings top event, you wouldn't start with the Americas Cup that's for sure.
  9. Wasn't it then appealed and overturned?
  10. "I'm sailing a cat, someone else is sailing a DoG" is just a play on words and he was clearly having a laugh with it. Won in the room my arse. '88 was won on the water. Fay took it to the room before (where the judges answer was 'grow up and sort it out on the water') and after (where SDYC defended their victory), piled on the moral outrage and played on anti multihull prejudice to try and get what he wanted. The Kiwi team hadn't stopped the strong arm even at the presser afterwards as we can see. When one group of fellas starts talking about having no respecting the other, not accepting the result, gets shirty about a lack of respect in return and starts physically fronting up on stage ... yeh sure it was Connor who was the only bad boy ...
  11. Save us the indignation fella. The skippers are having a laugh and appart from the rant about keeping fighting in the courts Fay gives it good. It's Kirby who looses his shit when he gets WUM'ed by one of the US design team, gets involved when the winning team are supposed to be having their photo taken and gets dressed down by Conners for it.
  12. Different strokes for different folks. Round here... The Royal Cork started as more or less a dining club for an element of Cork society. The Royal Alfred had Corinthian aspirations. The Royal Irish as a society venue. The DMYC was started by jews black balled from the other Dun Laoghaire clubs. The Clontarf Yacht and Boat Club stated as essentially the private boat club to the Guinesses new estate. Their main fleet (the IDRA14) came about after WWII when lower middle class (by the standards of the day) returnees wanted to continue the sailing they had enjoyed while on service. The Sutton Dinghy Club would be more the '60 concrete 22ft max affair, notably calling it's self a Dinghy club, the fashion of the time being to declare a new club as a sailing club in opposition to attitudes of the yachting establishment. But for the society clubs the motivation seems to be that the founders wanted to get on the water but where barred from joining existing clubs. It certainly has an attraction for some, but it seems less so. Corinthianism was mentioned in the other thread, which is snobbery by a different name. I mentioned the Royal Alfred. Last year it merged with Dublin Bay Sailing Club (the cross club co-operation that runs racing in Dublin Bay), effectively going out of existence. Then there's the Royal Corinthian (Burnham) vs the Royal Corinthian (Cowes) .. .the latter having recently merged with the RORC. May be it's "shutters up, recruit amongst our own, or those who wish to be among us" that's been a contributory factor to the areas of decline? In some regard the recession has been a good thing. It's forced clubs to go out and go after members out side of traditional circles.
  13. You're right Jay. I'm not sure what point your making. Cyclings commercial success on the continent is largely down to it being consistently promoted as a working class sport. In the US thanks to the business fashion fitness boom in the 2000s. In the UK its down to success at the Olympics. In particular before Olympic success the sport was on its uppers in the UK. The equipment is part of that but there is a big distinction that needs to be drawn between people who ride a bike and people with participate in the sport of cycling. Can they empathise with the Tour De France for having ridden a bike? Yes, but that's a structural issue for sailing in all forms. Unless you're sailed you are, arguably, not going to empathise with the AC in any form. Totally agree that 'the skiffs the thing' didn't work as an exclusive way forward for the sport. Where we disagree is that it was promoted in isolation. If you have issue with it being promoted at all you're really saying that the development of the sport should of stopped with the J24/GP14/Lightning/Laser. I raised the j/70 et al because they are the offspring of the movement you're claiming has been bad for the sport. I disagree with that premise because: People didn't stop promoting other forms of sailing and existing classes, if there where still attractive they would still be popular. In an otherwise declining sport those OD sportish boat classes have been the significant areas of adult growth. Are you going to apply the same critique to the concept of SMOD? When I look at successful participation sports and unsuccessful ones what I see mostly is a massive difference in the, increasingly professional, promotion of the sport and events; with the sport promoted to a very wide range of the general public. The successful ones also have a framework that encompasses all levels of achievement in a single system. In that respect sailing is barely a single cohesive sport at all. Here sailing is only just catching up with the level of support and training routinely pushed out to volunteers in other sports and it's starting to pay dividends.
  14. Normally some parts of the club and not others. The question was, why? It's because their elitist image is not helping them attract the kind of fellow they wish to acquire as members and they recognise the need to soften the shirt collar (a little).
  15. Nope once they anouncement something we can then get in with criticising it based on our preexisting bias and opinions
  16. Corinthian sailing is a very specific thing that hasn't changed very much since the founding of the Royal Alfred Yacht Club (the oldest explicitly Corinthian yacht club in the world). The AC got closest to Corinthian ideal for me in the immediate post war era. '83 the Cup is won by an essentially corporate effort. In '87 it's won by in essence a professional team backed by corporate money. Then there is '88. If we mean sporting and fair play, lets talk sporting and fair play. But for 2000-2007 the AC has shit on the highest standards of fair play through out it's entire history. It's a lesson in what money will do to win and pre WWII a clash of cultures in terms of British fair play and American sportsmanship by the rules. Then we're back in the toilet of a DoG challenge, which in it's own way is a fair fight. Objectively there are some bad things have been done since but in a number of ways, AC35 was as fair a regatta as we've seen.
  17. "Game the system"? Requiring the opposition to sail across the Atlantic while you raced about it stripped down day boats? Banning the challenger from racing anyone? Banning locals for sailing with the challenger when it looked like they might get close to winning. Corinthian? While it carries a Victorian emphasis on fair play it really was more about a rejection of pretty much everything the AC has stood for. It means amateur sailing of a boat to own your self; in opposition to sitting in the club getting drunk and making wagers on which of your fellow club members boats will come home first. And if we're talking sportsmanship in a Corinthian context we're really talking the unwritten standards of British fair play that would see BAR send in a support rib and lend their direct opponent equipment to repair there broken yacht, rather than the "by the rules" standards of American sportsmanship or the "by the interpretation of the rules by todays officials" sportsmanship introduced to modern sport by in no small part the Kiwis. '64ish was the birth of Corinthian involvement in the AC. '83 was the beginning of its downfall. '87 was its complete destruction. The poison pill is LV sponsorship ... the very thing required to kick of large number of challengers. The argument that the AC needs to get back to a Corinthian attitude and standard of fair play doesn't stack up. For there to be numbers in the AC what's needed is external funding and commercialisation (and static class rules).
  18. The lotus was a track bike. They tried banning technology from the hour record, which is probably closest to the AC in many ways. It killed it completely and utterly stone dead. I made a comparison between the AC50 and Opti. I think they look basically the same. Your comparison is not between the highest tech. the sport has to offer and the introductory equipment. But oh boy the kids trike has 3 wheels!!!!!!!!! Jesus we'd better not buy that strange contraption cos it doesn't look like the bike Lance Armstrong rode. I'm not suggesting that AC foiling technology should be made legal in a J/70 regatta or any other class aimed at participation. Talking of the J/70. Performance boat or no? .. and the SB20? or the Viper 640? or Melges 24? or the J80? or the Hunter 707? or any of the other relatively light weight, relatively over canvased classes that have been the new fleets keeping the lights on for the last 20-25 years. NAh. We should of kept everything the same and there would now still be massive fleets of 24s everywhere. Is that right? Are you saying Beneslow, Elan, bla bla bla just packed up promoting all other styles of boat? Or that the myriad of local classes that actually make up grass root sailing suddenly stopped promoting them selves? So you don't have to wait long. It's all ready happened.
  19. Eh? AC has nothing to do with middle class Corinthians sailing about the harbour in their 4 man day boats and 2 man dinghies... well other than, for a short period once they dumbed it down to 12m size, they got to sail on AC yachts if they where good enough... when said same Corinthians declared they didn't want to be Corinthian anymore. You'd imagine the number of industry professionals they where racing with might have got them thinking. Rule twisting is practically an institution in the AC going right back to the beginning. Plus '88 was followed by the IACC which are 82ft long. What trend is that? AC35 being an Italian and Spanish team away from having the same basic make up and entry as all the other post '88 US defences and a bunch of US teams away from being the same size as the rest bar 2007. We all know the cause. Fall out and squabbling. It's got nothing to do with multihull/monohull. LR was building a multihull, no problem, and they have said they have no problem with a monohull or multihull this tie round. Alinghi has a problem with multi hulls? Yeh right. It's completely inappropriate for the King of Spain to enter a high profile yacht race at the moment. Where are the Australians? They haven't entered since '95 which is a whole load of monohull regatta missed.
  20. Which brings us back to the Annapolis NOOD contributed to handsomely by all fleets bar PHRF
  21. Do me a favour and pop down to the Royal Yacht Squadron -- probably one of the most elitist clubs in sailing -- and ask them why they are giving the SB20 class full and unconditional access to the club house during this years world championships.
  22. The reality of bringing in the cash. Ben Ainsley is bigger than the sport in the UK. Don't hate BA, hate the Olympics.
  23. 397 boats entered for this years Fastnet
  24. The Volvo only got 20 boats in 1 or 2 editions. 8-10 would be a reasonable benchmark for comparison. The big issue for the Volvo looks to be that 2 of the 3 big sponsors for sailing historically (tobacco and alcohol) are now banned from sponsoring sport. Sailing has struggled to attract the new money in the tech industry. Not hard to see why.
  25. Home waters of the defending club. It may not be spelt out in the DoG like that but after the bad smell of Bermuda TNZ would do a lot of good by sticking with the obvious.