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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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Everything posted by rgeek

  1. How to build large format display

    .... actually I quoted the wrong version of Adrena. Standard Adrena Offshore with 1x C-Map MAX chart is 1,600EUR. Inshore with 1x CMAP (with out routing) is 1,300 bringing everything back to even stevens as a head to head comparison between the 2 set-ups for price. ... then throw in Squid for routing which currently seems to be free.
  2. How to build large format display

    Sure. 1x GNX 140 + 1x 120 would be equivalent to 1 d10. 2x GNX 120? Why not, it looks to us like they use exactly the same display technology... d10. Stack size: 200mm high x 136mm wide , Weight: 600g, List price: EUR1,120 inc tax @20% (there's a typo in my previous post) 4 x GNX 120. Stack size: 240mm tall by 181mm wide, Weight: 760g, List price: EUR2,000 For a fair comparison you really should add the mast bracket for the Garmins. Actually go on then, lets do the full comparison... Garmin 2x GNX120: 2,000 1x 2 instrument mast bracket: 200 1x n2k DST800: 400 (which has a 0.5Hz signal) 1x gWind: 690 1x 9 axis heading sensor: 850 1x GPSMAP x922: 1,500 (includes wifi and GPS and a worldwide base map) Some n2k terminators, t-connectors and a power tap: 200? (which typically get connect together in the same topology as an 0183 network) Total: 5,840 (Euro) to which you need to add Navionics chart costs Racegeek 1x d10: 1120 (includes 9 axis heading, GPS and wifi) 1x carbon mast bracket from Sail 22: 200 1x DST800: 350 (driven at 10Hz) 1x LCJ CV7-C MHU: 630 (that's the 'race' version with 5Hz rate, so may be I should of spec'ed the gWind race but never mind) 1x junction box: 125 Lets go the full Adrena Offshore with C-Maps worldwide: 1,470 (which includes Optima for all the calibration options you could shake a stick at) Panasonic CF-19 tough book: 2,200 Total: 6,095 (Euro) I'm sure a much more basic version of Adrena and would be a better comparison with the x922 and a 140+120 with the d10 but overall you get the idea. When we say we think the d10 has a use in the performance cruising market, this is what we're talking about.
  3. Team NYYC

    No other club has the AC history the NYYC has. An AC with out the NYYC almost isn't an Americas Cup. They skipped 1 after a bad campaign and have then been locked out by there being a US defender. Mean while members have been yotting about in M32s. The question is more; who has reason to think they won't be in? Will they wipe the egg of their face in public? Now that I doubt. Will it be fuel to the fire?
  4. How to build large format display

    To be honest we think 35ft is pushing it a bit. Depends on the budget I suppose. And there are always 30ers looking for GP spec race processors and bells and whistles to pay someone to maintain. For the 30-35ft we're not trying to build a display to add to a B&G or Garmin system. If you have the budget for a race processor you're more likely, and probably best served, buying all the kit from one brand. We don't think that's direction things are going though, or at least there are (and we've talked to plenty all the way up to 70+ feet) enough people looking for an alternative. Our assumption is that things are moving in the direction of nav being done on a iNAVx on a tablet at one end of the spectrum or Adrena/Expedition at the other end. What we need to do is provide the weather resistant mast display, a convenient way to wire in the MHU and the transducer and the WIFI to get that to the tablet/laptop and back again. Perhaps the gap in that is the autopilot, and if we where seriously looking at moving up the size range that's what we'd do for our next product. If you're looking for lots of numbers 4 will fit on a single d10 with digits at 60mm, 40mm and 2x 30ish mm. Once we have the repeater firmware sorted; no need to buy 2. At METs it was pretty clear that the size of TFT has crept up to 7" or so as there where a good few options for the kind of display that'll do what you're after. Still not cheep and they are power hogs. But if you do want 2, here's a d10 on a Seascape 27. I don't think there's much argument that a second would fit fine. The d10 has a GPS, compass and wifi access point in so it's not really intended as a second repeater. One of our test boats runs one of their old displays under the d10 for wind which makes a nice combo. The d10 is only getting attention for this due to the following comparison. From our experience in front of customers people clearly do want large digits, just not at the price you've had to pay for them to date. 2 x d10. Stack size: 400mm high x 136mm wide , Weight: 1200g, List price: EUR2,140 We'd normally compare the d10 to 2x GNX 140 + 2x GNX 120s or 2x B&G 30/30 + 20/20 as that's a fair comparison in terms of display size but since you're happy with smaller numbers lets stick to 4x 20/20 of 120/120. Garmin, NKE, B&G are all about the same size. Stack size: 460mm tall by 181mm wide + the bracket they slide into for the Garmin, which adds may be 40-50mm in width. The Garmins are a good bit lighter: 4 x GNX 120 , Weight: 1,520g, List price: EUR4,000 4 x 20/20, Weight: 3,600g, List price: EUR5,560 We're still open to putting a second digit on the speed. It just hasn't been far up the list to date.
  5. Team NYYC

    Doubt they are going to waste much energy on PR at this stage. They have a lot of catching up to do.
  6. Why ballasted foils ?

    I think it was explicitly mentioned by Dan B in the last Tuesday with TE
  7. Why ballasted foils ?

    May be it's because that's what they weight when you make them out of steel?
  8. How to build large format display

    + 3-4k for a low level library. There's a lot of help out there to get you there. Putting someone elses n2k bridge inside your device is even an option to get going with. NMEA certification isn't the whole story either. There's a tidy enough n2k bridge launched recently, we just wish they'd sort their CE certification out!!
  9. How to build large format display

    Thanks for the input. Sure, you can be quite happy with 35mm digits but why settle for average? Basically we sized the case to fit on an SB20/Viper640 and then made the digits as big as we could. Part of that was to create differentiation but mostly it was just because, fuck it, we could. In peripheral vision it turns out to make quite a difference and the size certainly makes an impact. Compared to a couple of repeaters from the big guys it's about 40% smaller (narrower and shorter) and something like 30-35% of the weight. We had test units on boats at the SB20 and J/70 Worlds and the J/70 North Americans. It definitely fits. In fact a d10s quite a bit smaller than a racemaster + prostart so you can leave it on the mast of a J/70 when you drop the boom! We can squeeze 4 bits of data in (most of the pages have 3) but in practice it's just too busy. Our philosophy is to keep peoples heads out of the boat as much as we can. Keep it simple. Put the key "all boat" numbers on the mast and then push the additional detail out over wifi to the smartphone APP for someone who can afford to be eyes down. So for example heal angle on the d10 is displayed as bars so people can gauge "she's about right at 3 bars" and the display doesn't jump around to much. The big digits help with all that. 1 vs 2 digits for speed is a balancing act between accuracy and responsiveness. To accurately measure to 2 decimals and get something stable enough to display you need to add quite bit of lag. For now we've gone for 1 set of digits and responsiveness. Using a signet blue cap our filter lag is around half a second, with an Airmar 1.25 seconds. It's something it will be interesting to get feedback on when we have more units out there. No one whose used one has complained yet. Calibration we will steadily improve. Targets? You're into hidden and undocumented alpha functionality now. A target can be set to the d10 and can be displayed as an option in the performance page. Still some work to go on how to send the value.
  10. How to build large format display

    We hear you. It's something we've been working on for a while to try and find solutions that work for those that want a battery and those that want to be able to plug into their existing power (quite strong opinion on both sides of the house!). This is our thinking: To get the waterproofing that's needed at the price point that's relevant we feel we need to seal the unit. We've all had to sit stuff on radiators over night to get rid of the fog and that just aint good enough. Battery doors are always a week point. Sure they can be done but they add extra complication and cost to the case to do well. If we sealed the case and put a battery in the whole thing would die with the battery in 18-24 months and we're not into that either. If we add a battery and make the case more complicated to make we're back to adding to the retail price for everyone for something only some of our customers want. Velocitek have that single use unit thing nailed. While d10 is better (sorry lads, it's true) we're not trying to be just a GPS only device. The d10 is for anyone who wants more functionality in terms of a magnetic compass in the same unit or wire up a paddlewheel for speed. So many people are going to be running a wire anyway. Our Aussie distributor has made up a mast bracket with a built in battery box, the guys in the US have a nifty set up using milwaulkee batteries you can pick up in any hardware store and we've been working with Scanstrut on some ideas. We think we have what you're looking for on our roadmap. (the d10 can already connect to an external wifi access point for data ... but we really do recommend running the wire in terms of reliability)
  11. How to build large format display

    The problem no one has yet mastered is drawing enough solar power from a small cell to provide for the power demands of wifi. Don't know if it is market ready but Scanstrut have been showing a mast groove attachment for their ROKK mini range this autumn.
  12. How to build large format display

    May be I'm thinking of the wrong iTC-5 but the one I'm thinking of is basically an analogue mux to which each sensor has to be wired following the provided colour coding, that outputs NG?
  13. How to build large format display

    Don't get me started on that one.
  14. How to build large format display

    You would think but we're actually seeing the vast majority of our enquiries are coming from people with an ST60 or, more recently, Micronet system installed by the builder. Makes sense as the discount they get from Raymarine is deep and wireless means an easy install (for the builder). On that basis a d10 actually makes quite a nice first upgrade as it gives an improved GPS, WiFi access point and mast display all in one go. I agree that the wind performance will be compromised but speed? Like I say what they don't tell you on the n2k transducer spec sheets is that the stock ones only output speed every 2 seconds. So, if you care to, you can hotwire the analogue speed on an ST60 system to the d10 and get better much better performance than a stock n2k transducer. Agree that connecting to the NMEA0183 on the chartplotter is a compromise. We'd actually recommend the Digital Yacht SeaTalk to NMEA0183-HS bridge. Cheep as chips and nice and compact.
  15. Garmin gWind Wireless 2

    The n2k output on the GN10 works fine
  16. How to build large format display

    Bigger boat or commercial installation sure n2k wins but the reality for the size boat the d10 is for (20-35ft)... Speed sensors are analogue Speed and depth: The issue isn't n2k vs NMEA0183. The standard ones of either only put out speed every couple of seconds MHU options: gWind is a good option and n2k with the GN10. The B&G507 is n2k but has a dumbed down signal rate. The Digital Yacht windex has been performing well under test. It's 0183. As has the LCJ CV7. It's nmea0183 too. The B&G213 is analogue. The CV7 is performing so well it's looking like our go to option. Significantly better than the 1.5 degrees they claim. Load sensors are custom applications So a bunch of time, money and retail price impact just to support the gWind with out a $120 bridge? It doesn't make sense.
  17. How to build large format display

    The d10 is in regular use on a Diam 24 where it gets hosed. They thought they'd need 2, 1 for each ama, but in the end only use 1.
  18. How to build large format display

    The smartphone/tablet APP can show 1 to 4 items. The d10 its self has 2 sets of large digits (60mm and 40mm) and a graphics area. Although the digits on the graphics area are still 32mm and we can cram 2 sets of numbers in it's off putting. So in general we've keep it to 1 set of secondary numbers. Wiring the NMEA out from a T122 would get wind and speed into the d10. It has it's own GPS and compass for location and heading. Everything is made available via wifi so you don't have to use our phone APP. Anything that can take an NMEA0183 feed over TCP will work.
  19. How to build large format display

    I'm not even sure that's true. I tend to think of n2k as the result of internal industry pressure from dealers on manufacturers to deal with the installation disaster 0183 had become. Now the dealers are in house their voice is diminished. Garmin has its own standards, most notably for wireless, and all of the big 4 have their own standards for radar.
  20. How to build large format display

    GATT is the part of the Bluetooth standard that allows a devices services to be found and the transmission of basic data. So the characteristics of a MHU might be: wind.angle, wind.speed, attitude.pitch, attitude.roll (characteristics are actually defined using numeric UUIDs) Even before you get to configuration, calibration and status there's the fundamental issue that 0183 and n2k define compound messages rather than atomic attributes. Until you list the things you want to measure, as distinct from the contexts in which you want to measure them, you're fucked in terms of defining a transport agnostic standard. The XDR message is about as close as NMEA has ever gotten.
  21. How to build large format display

    I was thinking that a lack off attention to standardising GATT characteristics is going to leave us back having to implement support for each sensor individually.
  22. How to build large format display

    It's an awesome effort and I agree with Moondusters view but Canboat is GPL'ed explicitly to say to NMEA "this is not for commercial use". Putting it into a commercial product would be shitting on the community from a great height both in terms of disrespecting the fundamentals of free software and endangering community use.
  23. How to build large format display

    Good stuff, what sort of range are you getting in the end?
  24. How to build large format display

    Wifi for general networking, some towards Bluetooth at the sensor level (Airmar 900 and the Calipso MHU) .. with completely none standardised messaging. Given the demand for live tracking in small boats it would be good to see adoption of something like Xbee. The problem there is a lack of adoption by consumer devices and which of the many options do you standardise on?? Zero interest in addressing either issue at NMEA it seems.
  25. How to build large format display

    It addressed a lot of problems and makes the install significantly more straight forward, resulting in pressure on manufacturers from with int eh industry to adopt it. In reality the NMEA0183 standard and general lack of compliance results in lots of integration issues. And not just historically (vYacht we're looking at you and the rouge numeric in front of wind sentences in your NMEA0183 feed). A proper standard covering hardware, transport and data with proper certification through testing is to be applauded. Lots of help with in the industry to clear the hurdles and once you have the 1st device done the costs decrease significantly. The only real thing to grumble in terms of getting started is the cost of the documentation and old school technology. Wires? Anyone who cares about performance and reliability cares about wires. Ease of install the opposite for sure.