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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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  1. Ian Farrier

    Sorry to hear it. Sympathy to his friend and family. Can't think of anyone who introduced more people to true performance cruising multihulls. Hope the business survives. Realizing I don't even know anyone there other than Ian. He was "da-man!" So sad...
  2. Coolboats to admire

    That is sweet!! What is the LOA?
  3. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    Fair enough. I suspect there may be some follow up especially from @Gouvernail. This may be a rowdy bunch - he especially - and we don't always or even often agree but he has done tons for small boat dinghy sailing down there (and more broadly). They need boats and parts to keep fleets sailing. So I suspect he may want to follow-up your post with the reality on the ground from an LP customer perspective. Or he may want to rant... it is SA afterall!
  4. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    A start but I can't help but notice you didn't respond with regards to Laser. Can you please...
  5. YRALIS PHRF Committee Purge

    I thought New Yorkers and those of the surrounding areas were supposed to be tough? All this over a PHRF trophy? Isn't that a bit like a fantasy football trophy? Do Long Islanders actually show up to pick these things up? Doesn't everyone disappear to go striper fishing anymore?? So confused... And cheat on taxes @TonyFromSheepsheadBay... I was told that is as American a tradition as apple pie and not voting in elections @Glenn McCarthy; not so?? Ice-boating anyone??
  6. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    OK Barnum...
  7. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    @bill4- I suspect the boats numbers and profitability (overall margins) are much lower. Three hundred new racing Sunfish sailors/boats sold each year for example seems unlikely (Worlds typically only attracted 50 or so sailors). With some digging and financial background much more information could likely be found but at least for me, its not worth the effort. My interest is more just general IP licensing trends and improved access for grass roots club level sailors/sailing. If financials float your boat however there maybe are business tracking websites such as that which follows (I can not and do not speak to their accuracy) that listed LPE's net worth as negative for the past decade or so. Agree with @RKoch that the parts and sails aspects of the business maybe are the higher margin areas but then its not logical why LP would be sooo deficient for sooo long in this area both for Laser and for Sunfish. Unless the business was at risk of bankruptcy and cash flow is an issue. Lord only knows what the truth actually is! I sure don't!! https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/00922893-laserperformance-europe-limited?page=overview On behalf the missing @tillerman...
  8. ARC 2017

    Sadly that seems fair as a general statement and gosh yes there are so many condomarans. Or luxurymarans. But that seems true broadly and not just the US market. I mean even the H&H and Gunboats come with sooo much more stuff and weight than one needs. And the US can do some cool stuff like: https://sailstiletto.com/ But yea, I am trying to remember when the wife and I were really excited by a blue water capable catamaran/multihull we saw at the Annapolis boat show. Sam and Earth - You find find out more about the boat and the various flavors it can come in (which would certainly provide for more or less of a performance orientation) at this site here: http://www.marsaudon-composites.com/en/ts42/ Its not exactly easy to navigate but there are plans, specs and option lists if you dig and through the email contact you can eventually make you way to somebody who speaks English if you are serious about the boat. Its an interesting design, build and company. This is from at least a year recall and I hope I am correct but thinks its the same designer and very similar design as the Outremer 45 (which has extended sterns). We were going to visit them and a few others on planned trip but life changed (sick father in law moving in with us) thus so did our trip and near term boating plans.
  9. Macif / Gabart / Jules Verne 2017-18

    Thanks Laurent. Much appreciated.
  10. Banque Populaire

    @darth reapiusand others with similar understandable views... just FYI, that the ignore function works again after the forum changes. Makes things much more sane and as an aside I would bet $ he is the most ignored on the board. But anyway, ignore doers work and we now return you to our regularly scheduled BP program (I hope).
  11. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    I believe there are more Sunfish sold than Laser or at least there was in recent past if I recall correctly. But as for the total value of these types of businesses... well the number that was offered for the Laser business during the dispute, as well as the money Kirby took from GS for all his "rights" and to walk away was I believe documented in the Laser court filings. Been a while since I looked at those so will not post an exact figure but I recall low single digits $ millions (like you only need one hand and not many fingers) and thinking the lawyers fees for all involved maybe exceeded the value of what they were fighting over. But that would mean they were all pretty stupid... or angry... or... oh wait... Anyway it was such a small number compared to FR's net worth or other business interests that I have to wonder when folks think he has some grand evil wealth generation/business strategy at works. Its dinghies for gosh sakes. Boats. Fast way to lose money, LOL.
  12. Hats off to you Paul. That is a thoughtful, balanced, informative, and helpful response, speaking as somebody who was interested and following the Rapido project. I don't want to put words in your mouth but I think it was suggested this was/is a Southern Spars issue. Do you think so (that the problem was the mast build)? Were you guys able to recover any parts of the rig and/or photograph what was left to be able to speculate?
  13. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    Yup. Well aware of the difference in numbers/use for Laser vs Sunfish. And yea, that is the threat LP has to fight. They have an organization using the sunfish name taking actions that are hostile to the Sunfish brand. They appear well justified in so doing and LP has likely done as much if not more self-inflicted damage to its various brand names but none of that means they will not fight this to the death. Sad mess. My friend @tillermanusually livens up these thread with relevant (OK semi-relevant) music videos to help cheer us up but he appears to have deserted us. For shame TM. Will there eventually just be one Sunfish ISCO sailor named Bill?
  14. ARC 2017

    Glad to hear that and look forward to seeing how she performs once there!
  15. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    You have hit the nail on the head and its a nail that many here ignore. Frankly the only thing I would disagree with or add is that the parts, sails or boat need NOT be certified by ISCA for them to be a serious threat to LP. Think about this. There are already generic sails I believe both for Laser and Sunfish. They are not (yet) certified or endorsed or allowed under the rules by either ILCA or ISCA. But yet for the club level racing Laser fleet (don't know about Sunfish) the generic sails are widely adopted and used (even contrary to official class rules). Point is, it need not be certified by ISCA in any way shape or form at all for it to be a threat to LP. Simply by ISCA making a rule change to allow its use, the existence of such things will more easily happen. With Laser there was nothing LP could do. The class has never officially endorsed the generic sails or parts or made a rule change allowing it. But ISCA is going further. They are making a rule change. Not a big deal given much of this stuff already exists. But... now imagine this same thing with hulls (the only thing that ISCA has not yet attempted but clearly could with the precedent they are establishing with "parts, sails and spars") and this is the threat that I think causes LP to fight to the death. Now I would say to LP that this threat (generic boats looking just like sunfish but not called sunfish or using the logo) will exist even without ISCA doing anything if you can not or will not supply the market. I would be curious to know if its just the dealer network that is starved for boats and parts and the sort, or if the institutional/recreational market is also. And I am still waiting to hear @LaserPerformance - where can I find and purchase new Sunfish and Laser parts, sails, and boats in the vicinity of Austin Texas, USA? Another frequently asked question in may geographies not addressed in the (in)frequently asked question answers from LP.