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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

jfeder

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About jfeder

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    Toronto
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    windsurfing, skiing, music, science
  1. For a very good reason. The sport is supposed to invite everyone to play equally. This might help all of us living together peacefully in the future. When the host discriminates (I am not using the term here to refer to religious discrimination) against a competitor nation, that goal is destroyed. The only way to keep this competition for everyone open is to penalize those nations that violate this policy. That is Malaysia in this case, and likely ISAF has been a major failure. If there is no penalty, we have seen what happens. Not everyone plays nicely.
  2. The visa matter is hardly a red herring. Many posters have vented their fury here because the team were supposedly denied visas. Well, they were wrong. Let's look at the conditions placed on the visas. The "keep a low profile" parts are pretty reasonable from a security point of view. No flag, anthem or any showing of nationality. People who argue this would be stupid enough to think they are entitled to walk through the middle of Tehran wrapped in an American flag . Whatever your viewpoint on the ME is, you have to admit that israel have pissed off a lot of Muslims (and others). The security risk was real. Why was there an onus on Malaysia to lay on a shitload of security for 2 out of 400 athletes? What about the risks to the other 398 posed by the presence of the israelis? Requesting an anonymous, low profile was a reasonable request. At the end of the day, the competitors and wider yachting fraternity would know the results. Beyond that, no one really gives a fuck. The communication clause was a wee bit weird, but not a huge deal. Legitimate calls presumably would be no problem. The shopping clause was no big deal either. Quite frankly, the shops on Langkawi are appallingly bad. I don't recall buying anything on my last couple of trips there. Shop in Singapore or Bangkok on the way home - much better. As you say, the israeli team "couldn't be arsed". It was their decision. Clearly, if the host nation is dangerous to athletes, it should not be a host nation. Shame on ISAF and Malaysia. We should not go to dangerous countries.
  3. Correct, so international sporting events should not take place on those locales. Shame on the governing body that locates it there with such knowledge.
  4. But the pitchforks are sharpened. Israeli is now a race and not a citizenship. Judaism is also now a race and not a religion. Are Jewish sailors from outside of Israel being told they cannot compete due to their religion? This is a political issue and not a 'racist' issue as so many scream from the tree tops. Israel <> Judaism. Actually, it is also about Jews, not just the country. Recently (5 years ago?) Malaysia had some financial problems and pressure on their currency. The official statement from their finance minister was to blame it on Jews. That should have been a warning for ISAF. Shame on ISAF. You learn something new every day. I didn't know that. BUT my point was more along the lines that to my knowledge Malaysia does not have restrictions on Jews traveling to the country, just Israeli passport holders. Some see no difference and decree antisemitism, other see it as a form of sanction based on Israeli governmental policies. I see it as a sanction. Now as for ISAF and the whole "we don't allow discrimination against any competitors" does sanction equate to discrimination? When South Africa was sanctioned and could not compete in the Olympics was that discrimination or sanction? I see no issue with a country choosing to sanction Israel based on Israeli government policies. I don't see it as discrimination, although I'm certain many of those who want the sanctions are antisemitic. With this being a longstanding policy of Malaysia, was ISAFs decision a tacit acknowledgement of approval of the sanctions in place by Malaysia in the same manner as the international ban on South African athletes, or is it more or less ISAF being naive to the fact that this would be an issue? And yes, I'm in the camp that Israeli state policies are a major issue and need to change. I don't support the US aiding Israel until those policies change. The only religion I don't like is the one that someone uses to justify discrimination or inhumane treatment of others. Yes, you may see it as a sanction, and I in another post showed several links about many member in their government talking about jews (the most recent claiming that the current government saved Malaysia from the Jews. I don't want to discuss whether it is a sanction or discrimination. In this case, you are correct, if it is a long-term policy of the Malaysian government then ISAF going along with this means that ISAF has decided to sanction Israel without formally admitting it. The host country agreed to abide by the regulations, so without an official sanction by ISAF this behaviour is contrary to the rules and must be solved. I agree with you that it may appear that ISAF has approved of this.
  5. Whether or not this is truly relevant, there was small discussion of whether this is Malaysian attitude to ISRAEL or to JEWS. It is likely both. Here are some quotes and articles I found that basically blame JEWS for many problems. The current situation should not have been a surprise. From the link: http://davidduke.com/former-malaysian-pm-jewish-banking-control-causes-trouble/ Former Malaysian PM: “Jewish Banking Control Causes Trouble” from the link: http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/dr-m-defends-policies-says-jews-created-problems Dr M defends policies, says Jews created problems from the link: http://archive.adl.org/main_anti_semitism_international/mahathir_jews_al_quds.html#.VoNf3ZMrLOY Mahathir continued that Jews, "had always been a problem in European Countries. They had to be confined to ghettoes and periodically massacred. But they still remained, they thrived and they held whole governments to ransom. from the link: http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/thanks-to-umno-and-pm-malaysia-saved-from-the-jews-kepong-leader-says Thanks to Umno and PM, Malaysia saved from the Jews, Kepong leader says
  6. Wow, so I had to search for your great idea.... I found it. You wrote, "My inclination is to invite the Israeli kids to come sail at the 2016 Easter Laser Regatta. We can call it the Intergalactic Youth Championships." LOL. Inviting kids from many sailing disciplines that were all Number 1 in their country trying to get to a world championship to compete at your local Laser regatta. Just to make sure, that is a joke, right? I am laughing anyway. I don't always get jokes.
  7. http://www.sail-world.com/Youth-Worlds---US-Sailing-denounces-exclusion-of-Israeli-windsurfers/141188 For some reason israel claims that being unable to display its flag and not get its national anthem played constitutes "an inferior condition for the Israeli competitors and preventing them from competing as equals on and off of the race course". This, of course is bullshit. Reading that statement, you would imagine Malaysia was requiring them to tow buckets around the track behind their boats. Here is an article with the complete list of restrictions.... http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/187283/Youth-Worlds-Organisers-in-hot-seat I will put the conditions here... The following is taken from an article with the previous link.. As you should be able to see, it is not practical to agree to those conditions. It was really a refusal EDIT by Malaysia. EDIT added note: Everyone who is interested in this topic should read the article pointed to by the previous link. I did not realize it went past the picture. It has a lot of information. At a subsequent meeting with Government officials a tentative offer was made to the Israel Sailing Association subject to the following conditions: The Israeli team had to compete on an anonymous basis. The team had to compete as an ISAF team and not representing Israel. They could only take indirect flights via Singapore to Langkawi (these were believed to have been booked, by the Israelis.) The Israeli team were not permitted to display any names, flags, logos, theme, colors that would indicate that they were representing Israel and had to portray themselves as representing the ISAF/World Sailing. The playing of the Israeli national anthem was also prohibited. The team was prohibited from making any purchases except via a third party. All outside communication (any form including mobile and digital) was also to be made only by a third party. All purchases and communication had to be approved by Malaysian security. There was to be no media reference to the existence of the team in Malaysia. Obviously, this restriction would have precluded the Israel Sailing Association issuing media releases as to the teams results, as is done by all national authorities at a World Championship. A breach of any of these conditions would usually result in Visas being immediately revoked, and the team exited/deported. The latter three conditions were almost outside the control of the team.
  8. "Penalise all the competitors and rob a world champion of his title because of one country having a tantrum over a few minor restrictions entirely resultant of their own bad behaviour." You are correct, but if there were not sanction or risk of losing the world championship, then ISAF has little motivation to change behaviour. "Remember that the israeli sailors were not banned from the contest. They CHOSE not to attend." Dorydude, If you have access to first-hand information, would you post it? I admit that I have not seen anything first-hand so I could be arguing here from a point of ignorance. I thought I had read that they had extra restrictions placed on them. In that case, the offending country is Malaysia, not Israel. The host country does not get to exclude a competitor nation based upon its own ideas. I am speaking just of the competitive sport. I am not debating the Israeli-Palestinian situation in this forum as it is not relevant. Based on the quote below, and the visa not having been granted within 24hrs of the start time, I state that your information is not correct and it is Malaysia that prevented the Israelis from competing. Edit... based on above, I looked around. Here are some quotes from an article with the following link.. http://www.sail-world.com/World-Sailing-must-make-sure-this-discrimination-never-happens-again/141088 The hosts also said that should an Israeli win a gold medal the Israeli national anthem would not be played. 'As we have yet to receive visas, 24 hours before our scheduled departure date, and considering the restrictions and difficulties the organizing committee has placed on us, we have decided not to take part in the competition,' said ISA chairman Gili Amir.
  9. Very simple.. If a host country discriminates against another athlete's country, that country's sailors must get some sanction, such as either being disqualified from that very event or having score numbers added to their score as a handicap. That way, the person that is doing the discimination would get immediate heat and probably be forced to back-track so that all sailors will likely get to compete fairly. The goal is to get everyone to compete. Immediate threats against the host country's athlete's would put pressure immediately where it is needed so that no-one other than the offending official is likely to suffer. It is not too late to put penalties on the Malaysian sailors. The young Malaysian sailors had nothing to do with this fiasco. Leave them out of this one, this way. The regatta should be decertified as a world championship. We really need to read the contracts for all this. Who said what to who when? If ISAF is as pure as the driven snow, you'd think they'd issue some facts that they got caught unaware. Of course, maybe they are just going to wait until the regatta is over, but let's hope next week we see facts that give this discussion clarity and closure. You are correct that the Malaysian sailors are not at fault, but is this not the most likely way to prevent these problems in the future? Imagine, a country has a lot of local interest in their own athletes competing locally in a World Event! Then, if the local sailors have the threat of being penalized because of some administrator in their government, the pressure will be huge. I think that will prevent these situations, and also their own sailors from being penalized. But lets say that the pressure was not enough. Should not the athletes from the offending nation be punished as a proxy for their government's damage to the sport and its international behaviour? In fact, the offending nation's athletes should be the ONLY athletes punished which is why this solution is better than the athletes from other nations boycotting the event. I see it like this. 1) Prevention: other than not choosing Islamic nations as host nations, which itself is contradictory to our goals of all countries competing, there needs to be enough pressure on the correct officials. The other proposals here hurt the Malaysian Sailing Authority, but they may not be the ones doing the damage. They may not have enough political clout to solve the problem. We can find the fault, and whine and bitch all we want, but the way for these things to work is that the pain must hurt the offender. The offenders in the cases of Oman and Malaysia are the authorities granting the visas. That needs public pressure. It is likely that not during a local event, those authorities could care less whether or not their sailing authority even existed or the harm they were doing. During a local event, government officials are highly pressured by their local people. That is why the host athletes must be at risk of sanction DURING the local event, for immediate feedback. 2) Yes, they are innocent. But someone suffers - It is far more just for the team of the offending nation to suffer than other teams. If we believe in open competition, I think this is the most practical solution. P.S. I also agree with your solution that this be decertified as a world championship. That should happen no matter what.
  10. I was told that in soccer, if there is racism IN THE STANDS, not even from the government, that next time the team that had the racist sympathisers play, the game goes on but NO-ONE is permitted in the stadium to watch, other than the officials. The gates are locked. This penalizes the host stadium and team.
  11. But the pitchforks are sharpened. Israeli is now a race and not a citizenship. Judaism is also now a race and not a religion. Are Jewish sailors from outside of Israel being told they cannot compete due to their religion? This is a political issue and not a 'racist' issue as so many scream from the tree tops. Israel <> Judaism. Actually, it is also about Jews, not just the country. Recently (5 years ago?) Malaysia had some financial problems and pressure on their currency. The official statement from their finance minister was to blame it on Jews. That should have been a warning for ISAF. Shame on ISAF.
  12. It's a shitty situation for all. International sport should be... well international. Everyone else went through the trials and was invited, let them compete and represent their country. Just like everyone else there. I disagree. israel is a pariah state and should be banned from all international events until they clean up their act. Good on Malaysia ( and others) for having the balls to stand up to them! You do realise that FIFA was on the verge of booting israel out when they were raided by the police recently? Asshattery on the scale that israel practices it should have consequences. Are you real? Do you enjoy watching DEASH burn people alive and film them drowning in a cage? Do you approve of israel having advisors embedded with DEASH? http://en.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13931216000838 Doing deals with them? http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.580169 Do you approve of israel treating DEASH fighters and returning them to the battlefield? http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Israel-treating-al-Qaida-fighters-wounded-in-Syria-civil-war-393862 http://www.timesofisrael.com/yaalon-syrian-rebels-keeping-druze-safe-in-exchange-for-israeli-aid/ Face it. Without israel, ISIS would not exist. Hey Dorydude, are you an ISAF official? This might explain the ISAF policy.
  13. Very simple.. If a host country discriminates against another athlete's country, that country's sailors must get some sanction, such as either being disqualified from that very event or having score numbers added to their score as a handicap. That way, the person that is doing the discimination would get immediate heat and probably be forced to back-track so that all sailors will likely get to compete fairly. The goal is to get everyone to compete. Immediate threats against the host country's athlete's would put pressure immediately where it is needed so that no-one other than the offending official is likely to suffer. It is not too late to put penalties on the Malaysian sailors.