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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Eric_R.

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About Eric_R.

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  1. Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

    If they chose to conduct a vote in 2011, it simply shows that they wanted to understand how the class members felt before they made a change. They did not have to do this - they chose to. They made their case for a 'Yes' vote because it's what they thought was the right choice. They wanted the class members to agree with them. The class members overwhelmingly did. So all of your hot air about ILCA trying to mislead members over the vote, and all of your accusations of an improper process, well - they're kind of irrelevant aren't they? Maybe their wording wasn't perfect, but it doesn't really matter. Again Redstar, there is a big difference between making accusations of an improper process and questioning the validity of the voting system. The question: what steps were taken, if any, to verify that members votes cast were made by the actual member and not by someone claiming to be that member? should be easily answerable. The ILCA at some point may be required to answer it. I wonder if Kirby will get to ask the ILCA this in his legal action? (In discovery or in court?). So far he has only raised the misinformation issue. If you read the original post from the class site: http://www.laser.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=948:international-laser-class-association-results-of-fundamental-rule-change-voting&catid=21:official&Itemid=250 "The voting for the change to the Laser Class Fundamental Rule and other Technical Rule Changes closed at midnight Friday 23 September 2011. Thereafter the votes were verified for membership validity by each District or Region. The results were then audited by an independent audit firm, which reported 1017 ‘yes’ votes (89,3%) and 122 ‘no’ votes (10,7%), showing that over two thirds of the voting members approved the rule change as required by the ILCA Class Rules, part five, article 30©."
  2. Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

    Go sailing! North Americans 259 total 4.7s, Radials and Full Rigs. LP is sending 160 new boats to Oman for worlds Don't think we have many problems with our game right now.
  3. Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

    But Eric, you DO have sponsors: the volunteers who offer their boats and gas. That's sponsorship. And what they get out of it is the club continuing with its events. But it is still sponsorship and it means that the REGATTA FEES DID NOT COVER COSTS - instead club members had to chip in costs of boat useage and gas to make up the difference. Now they may well enjoy doing so, but that doesn't change the fact that the entry fees didn't cover the regattae. As for J24s being bigger boats - that actually makes it easier for the club to turn a profit. because crews are more likely to spend an extra $20 to buy an event Shirt as memorabilia since they didn't kick in the entry fee a crew of 4 will drink more at the bar than a crew of 1 or 2. but the cost of setting up the course, providing judges etc. is mostly dependent on the number of boats the cost of running the course for a 50 boat regattae is about the same for a 24'er as for a 14'er. slightly more gas for the 24'er mark set boats as the marks need to be set a bit further upwind, but a bit more gas for the dinghies for crash boats so that's a push. So the reality is that its easier to deal with the budget of a 24er regattae rather than 14'er regattae. Again the bottom line is that even at your club, entry fees don't cover the costs. as you yourself have pointed out The club kicks in the operations of the club for free even though that takes away from member usage of the space Club Members sponsor the mark set boat rental Club Members sponsor the gas for running the markset boats None of those costs are covered by the Entry Fee. And yet Wess is claiming that entry fees and class dues are enough to cover this. In our case, club members will donate the use of their boats and gas but they could easily be payed back and we wouldn't be in the negative. For the most part we don't have an issue with the use of the club since we keep things in the boat yard and not at the main club. Members have no issue using the property for their own sailing or boating. We still continue operations with regattas going on; we have the flexibility. We have plenty of space for members to use the facilities on their own during an event that there are no issues there. Could always have a conflict with the use of our main clubhouse but that's rare and really there haven't been any complaints by members when they want to do something at the club. My bottom line is that we have members use their boats to help out and many donate their time, boat and gas. I don't care if it's sponsorship by the members, we could cover it and still not lose money. I still don't get why people would lose money on an event. You budget it properly and there shouldn't be a problem.
  4. Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

    Sounds like you haven't run a regatta before and that is a pretty big generalization. People don't set out to lose money on an event whether it be local or international. That's why they budget things to either break even or make money, no one sets to lose money on something. Big events can get sponsors but you can break even or make money with a regatta easily. It's not that hard to lose money when running a Laser event, in fact because it's a laser you can make it even cheaper if you do food correctly. You are of course correct Sir. I have not organized or run multiple National level regattas in the last five years or any others and if I had they would not have set attendance records. I never serve as PRO multiple times in a year and do not do RC at least 12 times a year either. Only a fool would do so. I do not race in multiple classes, and would not be caught dead in dinghies, multihulls or monohulls. For sure my wife would kill me if I raced about 50-75 days a year so I would never do that either and kids are obnoxious so I would not have introduced dozen to the sport. I am in fact such an a** and so unpopular that I can't ever get crew to sail on my boats. It is all rather shamful. I am the bad ignorant person you think I am. But in every dark cloud there is gold to be mined from the pockets of the little people. And its mine; all mine! My comments were directed towards Baltic and his generalizations about running events, not you.Again I didn't say that people set out to lose money. Rather that clubs rarely make a profit on a regatta FROM ENTRY FEES.. That in fact what sailors pay in entry fees usually has to be subsidized - either by class $$, Fleet $$, club $$, Sponsor $$ or usually some combination thereof. And every budget I've been involved in building (from local beer can fleet to national champs in J-24s) does it this way and ONLY the local beer can racing with a round robin for who does RC with the club's runabout and dues going to gas money ONLY (and no use of clubhouse because they can't afford the cleaning bill) has broken even ON DUES ALONE.My club, which runs local up to major events budgets in the use of gas and such for the club boats and the volunteers offer their boats as well as gas to help out. Most of the time we don't get sponsors but from entry fees alone we never lose money. Things get interesting when certain events have to have people fly in (judges) but we cover that in our budget. We are lucky if we get some sponsors but we can run events and make money on entry fees alone and the fees are reasonable if not lower than what you see for some events. We also may be talking about different fleets where you mention J/24s we are usually smaller one design boats. Also you mention the club turns a profit for the use of the club, at least the way i do it, the club runs the event, not the sailors. I think of something like SSA in Annapolis they have to pay back to the club, but in my case the club runs the event and has the budget.
  5. Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

    Sounds like you haven't run a regatta before and that is a pretty big generalization. People don't set out to lose money on an event whether it be local or international. That's why they budget things to either break even or make money, no one sets to lose money on something. Big events can get sponsors but you can break even or make money with a regatta easily. It's not that hard to lose money when running a Laser event, in fact because it's a laser you can make it even cheaper if you do food correctly. You are of course correct Sir. I have not organized or run multiple National level regattas in the last five years or any others and if I had they would not have set attendance records. I never serve as PRO multiple times in a year and do not do RC at least 12 times a year either. Only a fool would do so. I do not race in multiple classes, and would not be caught dead in dinghies, multihulls or monohulls. For sure my wife would kill me if I raced about 50-75 days a year so I would never do that either and kids are obnoxious so I would not have introduced dozen to the sport. I am in fact such an a** and so unpopular that I can't ever get crew to sail on my boats. It is all rather shamful. I am the bad ignorant person you think I am. But in every dark cloud there is gold to be mined from the pockets of the little people. And its mine; all mine! My comments were directed towards Baltic and his generalizations about running events, not you.
  6. Lasers - Applying a Blow Torch

    Sounds like you haven't run a regatta before and that is a pretty big generalization. People don't set out to lose money on an event whether it be local or international. That's why they budget things to either break even or make money, no one sets to lose money on something. Big events can get sponsors but you can break even or make money with a regatta easily. It's not that hard to lose money when running a Laser event, in fact because it's a laser you can make it even cheaper if you do food correctly.