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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Team_GBR

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  1. Team Australia

    You really do make it up as you go along. ETNZ had 2 AC72's and they built one for Luna Rossa which they trained against. As for 2017, everybody only had one boat. It is very naive to think any team will get away with only building one of these new AC boats when others are building 2.
  2. Mothquito

    So what. Past sales doesn't give an indication of future sales, which is what I was predicting.
  3. Oracle Team USA

    This is where it all breaks down. How can you take the high ground and make a comment like this. ETNZ did not choke. They sailed their boat to the best of their ability and despite what some like to make out, without hindsight, there was very little they could have done differently. Their biggest mistake can only be seen as a mistake with hindsight - the agreement to the day off that allowed OR to make significant changes that would not have been made without that day off. People forget that ETNZ improved considerably over the course of the regatta and that took real effort. To call their loss a choke is disrespectful to them and to the achievement of OR in turning the situation around.
  4. Mothquito

    I am not sure whether I made myself clear or you don't want to understand what I posted. To be outselling the Waszp has nothing to do with how many boats have been sold to date. The question is how many were sold in, say, January and then in each month going forward. Numbers at regattas have nothing to do with current sales figures. It also wouldn't surprise me if the UFO would outsell the Waszp and have lower numbers racing. We have also seen it all before. Classes come and go far quicker today than we used to see. look at some of the Laser Performance, Topper International and RS boats. Class loyalty isn't what it used to be.
  5. Oracle Team USA

    Hang on a moment. I cannot remember any ETNZ supporter being against Ellison's efforts to bring Bertarelli to task. You seem to have forgotten that before Ellison and Coutts became the devils incarnate, they were seen as the knights in shining armour saving the cup.
  6. Oracle Team USA

    I will put it another way. What made AC34 great was all the things you talk about. It kept the interest and intrigue going for the whole event. Each of the sub plots enhanced the story, just like all of Dalton's outbursts did, and Spithill's wind ups and the LR temper tantrum where they refused to sail a race. Add the whole thing together and it was the best edition of the cup I can remember.
  7. Oracle Team USA

    Exactly the same grounds as ETNZ had in AC34. They protested because they did not accept the decision of the measurement team as to the legality of the foil control system,. In AC35, OR raised a number of concerns about the New Zealand boat but while they didn't agree with the decisions, they accepted them.
  8. Oracle Team USA

    Fanboys love to roll this out, but they never go on to point out what the Jury also said in their ruling. I wonder why? Could it be because it said that even if the protest had been heard, it was pointless as the system was legal. It seemed to me to be a pretty smart move by the Jury, so that no shadow hung over the result, but a very few NZ supporters don't accept it, so maybe it was pointless.
  9. Mothquito

    Cannot disagree more. The Waszp has succeeded because it had a first to market advantage over the competitors. Now new designs are coming through, I cannot see the Waszp continuing to sell in the same numbers because it is deeply flawed not least because it isn't that much easier to sail than a Moth. I would make a pretty big bet that the UFO will outsell the Waszp going forward (if it isn't already), and there will be other boats we haven't yet seen. The one thing I am pretty confident about is that the Mothquito is not going to be one of the foilers that succeeds.
  10. SuperFoiler Grand Prix 2018

    Skiing and other snowsports spend a lot of time and money researching how to make the sport safer and race courses are set to best protect competitors from injury. Equipment is controlled by a set of rules in an attempt to limit speed and varies depending on age and standard of competitors. Big improvements have been made in catch fencing. Races are cancelled when conditions are deemed to be too dangerous. So yes, the sport is dangerous but it does all it can to minimise risks and injuries. In the case of the Superfoiler, they could make the boat safer and set courses away from channel markers without effecting the visual impact of the event.
  11. Oracle Team USA

    Not quite. It was Luna Rosa that protested that the OR photographer was too close. It was a clever bit of work by the "alliance" because if ETNZ had protested, OR would have countered that they had been too close in SF. There was a great story of how OR dealt with ETNZ when they got too close. They went passed them in their biggest engined rib and soaked them with their rooster tail. Funny thing is, to be sure I got my story right, I did a quick search and I also found a quote from a well known NZ journalist who is known for having no love of OR. Richard Gladwell said "Oracle's alleged transgression is pretty small fry. In the end it came down to defining the word "navigating" and IMO, anybody who thinks it was a clear case of cheating is being unduly biased.
  12. Oracle Team USA

    There is no evidence for that while there is some circumstantial evidence for Burling not being as good at it as some of the others. The foiling AC45's used in the ACWS had foil control by the helm and most agree that Ainslie was the best at it. He was always the first to foil in the light winds and he seemed to have more control than others. After a while, Outteridge got to grips with the system and was consistently as good if not better than the rest. At best, you would say that Burling was unproven in this area, but it is a rather mute point.
  13. Oracle Team USA

    This is incorrect. Even if the claims against OR are true, which I have seen no evidence for, nobody has ever claimed their system was fully automatic. The claims have always been that there were supplementary systems that made the overall control easier. You are misunderstanding what i said and what happened. Not only did ETNZ have the system you are referring to, but they also had a fully automatic system that could "fly" the boat without any input from the crew and which for a long time was better than could be achieved by the crew. They used this control system to allow them to push development harder, as they didn't have to learn how to adjust new foils as the computers could do that for them. They also found that their predictive software could accurately predict foil behaviour, so they could develop a foil, programme the boat and sail the boat immediately. There was not the same imperative for the crew to learn how to control a new foil before they could get the results and the crew only learnt how to control the foil once the foil and its behaviour was known. Once understood, the computer could then indicate to the crew how to adjust the foil while all the other boats had to rely on the "feel" of the sailors. For a long time, the ETNZ sailors were unable to match the foiling performance that could be produced by the automated system. The predictive programmes and the automated control system was IMO the biggest single thing that helped ETNZ to win the AC. Without them they would probably have not achieved stable flight from their foils. Everybody focuses on the cyclors, but if the other teams had cyclors, they still would not have won.
  14. Oracle Team USA

    In the interests of keeping the conversation civilised, and taking your conversation seriously, even if it was a troll, the best automated foil control system developed by anybody was by ETNZ for their AC50. It took a long time before they learnt how to sail as fast and stable on manual control as they could with their automated system and it was one of the reasons why they won the cup. By being able to sail with foils that the automated system could control but which couldn't initially be controlled manually, they moved along the development curve faster than other teams. The only problem with the idea of automated controls for the SF is that the knowledge isn't available. If you are to believe a few cheater theorists, nobody at OR is talking because they have been silenced by Larry, while ETNZ would be foolish to reveal anything about their system because foil control is going to be critical for the next cup. The cost of developing an automated foil control system for the SF would be many times the cost of the whole project, so it isn't going to happen. They also don't need it. M&M screwed up the foil design. What the boat needs is more forgiving foils. They might reduce top speed by a couple of knots, but nobody will see the difference.
  15. Oracle Team USA

    To repeat what has been said above, this is exactly what what is being said regarding OR, except for one difference. This reminds me of old school policing that led to many innocent people being locked up. "he has a record, we can't be arsed to check out his alibi because we don't understand it so he must have done it. Let's fit the story around that". The scenario you says has no logic is exactly the scenario that is being used regarding OR with the added "fit up job". You are correct, OR was caught cheating but that is not evidence that they cheated again.