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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

LionIsland

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About LionIsland

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    Pittwater
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    Boat'n

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  1. Rushour on its roof.

    Actually, rereading the Rushhour account. I know of atleast two other multis where the jib alone has been the cause of the boat going over. It’s surprising how much affect on bringing the boat back from the brink easing that little fucker up front makes. But it most certainly does. As for leaving sheets in self- tailers. No thank you. Because we (one) normally have a minimum number of turns of the sheet on the winch (where as halyard winch drums are normally stacked fully), when that big ol’ gust comes along I have found that sheet wedges itself in them st jaws there nice and tight. In a scary “fuck! fuck! fuck! I can’t get the fucker out!!!” kinda way. Combine that with the inevitable retention of rhe winch handle which will get tangled in the sheet when you do finally rip the sheet out of the st jaws and imo you have the makings of a major fuck up. Unless it’s really light breeze and I’m being naughty (read: an idiot) and hypocritical I always take the sheet out of the st jaws and put it in a cam cleat. Roller cam cleat, that is. The old crappy ones are a death trap.
  2. Rushour on its roof.

    I guess it’s a bit like having a low powered motorbike and a 200 hp weapon. You can wind that throttle on hard without too much threat of losing control if there’s not much power but a little whoopsy on the powerful bike can end in tears. Anyone can get powerful cars, boats or bikes but on the powerful one things can go pear shaped really really fast. Rushhour is a racing weapon (with a cabin and not a production cruising cat or even close to that so comparisons are ridiculous but, yes, it obviously can be safely cruised, of course) and in anything over 20 knots can bite the hands that feed her. Such is the nature of a big comfortable albeit powerful boat designed to race well and go fast The owner is a great racer and has proven that and racing by its nature has its risks. Racing or practice accidents can and normally benifit everyone as lessons and systems are developed that can help everyone. For mine a boat that can steer well (I won’t mention my previous tri and her woeful steering and that of her sister ships) plus a clear picture of “are we gonna dump jib and head up or keep gear on and bear away if we get overwhelmed.” is vital. In big breeze being overcanvassed upwind is normally manageable , over canvassed downwind is normally manageable, pulling away around a top mark or reaching is when my sphincter tightens. To me this is a reminder to go out and practice, have clear communication, good systems and experienced sailors on board, some luck and to remember that sheep stations are overrated. Great fun and that feeling one gets flying along in a multi can’t be beaten but with rewards are risk. But don’t start trying to tell me monos are safer. That’s an unwinnable argument.
  3. Rushour on its roof.

    Bummer, but maybe not too much damage to mast head and not too much water ingress and good all well of course. Always interested in how the rerighting was managed and lessons learnt. Especially on a bigger boat such as this. And in shallow water. I still wonder if a small aero capsule (maybe the size of those Hobie mast head ones) with a gas cartridge inflated bag and inclination switch set at say 100* would be feasible and inexpensive insurance against inversion. Should stop the mast head digging in, hopefully keep most water out of the hull and motor and make reeighting easier. A con is the boat would blow away downhill faster. Maybe carefully deploy the anchor if that’s an issue. My theory is that on average Murphy gets his way once every 1000 hours of Boat’n. The little fucker. Some people more or less than others. So if you do lots of Boat’n it (unspecified stuff up) will happen from time to time, if you don’t do much Boat’n then you can probably say “Hey, I never have fuck ups because I’m shit hot at boat’n“ or if you don’t own a boat you can just slink away from the steaming pile of Murphy pooh and leave it up to the owner to take the rap. SB.
  4. 2017 Australian Multihull Championships

    For mine I’m a pretty big advocate of OMR but it’s always quite a pain administering it for weekly racing and at this time RMYC races are just running scratch and phs. I wish we could run OMR weekly but the main obstacle is not measuring, not getting people to sail their boats in the measured configuration but to convince people that the RULE WORKS and that it’s fair and thus have enthusiasm for it. I certainly would like to see a lot more discussions about the intricacies of the rule rather than the usual “its good/ it’s bad/ you suck” banter. It’s about mathematics. General discussions are fine but we need data. I think it’s formula has by and large come up with tcf’s that have rewarded well sailed and well designed (for racing performance), well optimised boats (and I don’t think that necessarily means getting the lowest number possible otherwise they’d be a lot of tubby (heavy) boats with small low aspects sail plans winning). Omr wise the really interesting thing from recent regattas (although the numbers have been dismal- 20 for Nationals, 16 for LCMR - they are both well down to previous) is seeing the change (or not) in results when crews change boats. I haven’t looked closely yet but that must say stuff about the rule. But, alas, within boat racing there are so many variables (eg sailing abilities, boat set up and in our racing boat design and quality of sails) even strict one design fleets often have such huge distances between the top boats and the middle runners. However we shouldnt throw out the baby with the bath water because the rule has generally worked well for us but we must keep developing and refining the rule from data not whims. Does that mean we need a review committee? Do we thus need an administration body? That old chestnut. I’m stoked that QLD bought a single point hanging weigh cell and I’ll hopefully be able to utilise it down here and need to talk to you about that. Eg Cost and it’s weigh capabilities. Eg there’s a 60 ‘tri being relaunched down here for one. SB.
  5. 2017 Australian Multihull Championships

    Ok. Finally I see. Funny. Gee. The devil is in the detail.
  6. 2017 Australian Multihull Championships

    Eh? 1) which original post? I don’t see the word “multihull”in Plywood’s original post of Jan 30 if that’s what you refer to and, 2) what will make more sense?
  7. 2017 Australian Multihull Championships

    Not sure,Alan, but there's another Nationals in 3 months time if your keen. Might have to pull out my OUI OUI!!
  8. Lock Crowther Multihull Regatta

    There will be pics and reports coming shortly. It was actually a really enjoyable weekend. It has restoked my fire somewhat so that can't be a bad thing. Okay then, it's late but I can try to articulate some thoughts now; I thought the lower than usual numbers would reduce the fun factor but the visiting boats including Geoff Floyd's Corsair 28 "50/50" from Victoria, Mke Kirby's large Schionning Waterline 'Viento', and Greg Bridge's Crowther Windspeed 31, 'Bob', both from Cronulla and Shane Russell's Peter Cherry designed Lynx 'Foxy' from Wangi in addition to the Pittwater locals really helped to make the 16 boat Regatta feel special. As did Beryl Crowther's attendance at the Presentation Dinner There seemed to be lots of other boats willing and keen to enter but individually they had boat problems, clashing of dates with other events or prior family commitments preventing their attendance. Hopefully, the optimum numbers of 22-25 boats will again be sailing this Regatta next year. The Friday Ocean race begins proceedings for the LCMR but with only two boats participating with Bulletproof having to withdraw with recently discovered mast track issues and several other boats and/or owners either away or not prepared for ocean racing a "dead heat" on phs was "organised" for the J'ouvert and Bob. Very amusing, Alan (the handicapper) but good fun. Both my crew (Sarah and Beth) on Jouvert and the Crew of Bob including Nuddy and Barbara and owner Greg (and another?) enjoyed a really nice day out sailing off the coast. The conditions were light and shifty initially but a steady sea-breeze filled in which made this beautiful spring day close to perfect. Seeing a large seal sunning itself on Shark Rock at Barrennjoey Point as we sailed out of Pittwater, then really large pods of Dolphins and several breaching whales, not to mention sailing the course's long legs of several miles along this stunning coast with virtually no other traffic and steady winds (compared with inside PIttwater) and with the course being between Pittwater, Maitland Reef And Newport it means no one is ever further than a few miles from the protection of Mother's Bosom (Pittwater), it was a really memorable experience. I certainly would like to share thèse experiences with more multihulls and to do some proper offshore racing too. I expect more multihull sailors to accept the challenges and reap the benefits of sailing "outside" in RMYC's offshore series, the Pittwater Coffs, and/or Pittwater Southport, the SSAA races if we can get them reestablished, Brissy- Gladstone and this LCMR offshore race in the future. It really is a great boating expérience, racing offshore. The low Multihull numbers are a bit piss poor when you consider the number of Monos racing offshore. Anyways, the real racing of the 4 inshore races obviously had proper and legitimate handicaps applied and I note that Xena again sailed very well but it would have been trounced by the amazing efforts of Joe Finch's Burgess trimaran float based catamaran 'Bluey Zarzoff' had Joe sailed the correct course in race 2. But with a new bigger rig (pinched from his Dad's now decommissioned Crowther Twiggy) just installed and all the "challenges" that that was providing for the young sailmaker Joe and his young crew, returning to pass a mark on the correct side was considered too hard at the time in the gusty conditions. But what a transformation that bigger rig has made!! Talking about the gusty conditions, on Saturday morning's gusty race 1, Orca, the F-82R of long time multihuller Kurt, got blown over with it's kite up. Amazing effort by him and the committee boat to have it back on it's feet and sailing within an hour. Impressive stuff. Of course the sails, including the kite, were in perfect trim seconds after rerighting. However, with the waterlogged motor and no doubt bits and pieces wet and or missing Orca retired after sailing home. In the strong breezes Race 1 was completed quickly so we had a long lunch break for all boats, some rafted up with friends, which allowed time for the committee boat to reright Orca and get back on station in time for the Race 2 start off Macketal Beach. Winds were expected to drop off in the arvo which they did eventually but not before providing some exhilarating rides to Lion Island and up to Juno Point and some good right racing and I saw 30 knots true breeze at one stage. Sunday was another beautiful day but light shifty breezes created a bit of a lottery in the morning race and boats that seemed to be blitzing found themselves back in the pack and boats that seemed to have wandered off into the never never found themselves leading. The afternoon race was just delightful in 8-10 knots of breeze and the easterly breeze on this north/south waterway made screechers the sail of choice. Again the generous sponsorship made for lots of prizes at the dinner presentation and a nice touch is thatvl non prize winners receive a complimentary bottle of wine. Well done and thanks to Alan Brand and his crew John Mitchell (and congrats to them and Paul Pascall on their Regatta win) and the crew at RMYC for organising a very nice Regatta. I'm now looking forward to next year's. Stephen (J'ouvert)
  9. Gitana 17 on Foils

    I seriously had to scroll up to the top to check the subject of this thread. So, back to Gitana 17. How friggin amazing is it! And get all those blokes off the boat at it will be a tonne lighter. But my two questions are: 1) will the amazing feats of the crewed Idec and the solo Thomas Coville be beaten (by any significant amount) if one can't leap forward to the next low pressure cell and so will these new generation boats be able to do that? and 2) how the fuck are you meant to be able to sleep (and not crash into shit!) on these things while sailing (foiling!!!) at 30/40/50 knots for days and weeks on end on your own?
  10. 2017 Australian Multihull Championships

    Well, firstly, I don't think we will do ourselves many favours if, like a flock of seagulls squabbling over a few hot chips, we are bickering over numbers of attendees in what seems to be a generally current low attendance period in Multihull yacht racing in Oz. There seems to be a bigger picture issue to address. But I will say that IMO the unfortunate position that the earlier organisers of this year's Nationals took in regard to the scheduling was not helpful and may well contribute to lower numbers attending both Nationals and LCMR. I, for one, would likely to have attended both if both were held at seperate times. Or maybe it's made buggerall difference. LCMR has been a great success for multihull sailing in this part of the world for the past 21 or so years since the unfortunate and premature passing of Lock Crowther with numbers of multihull yachts attending rarely below mid twenties and for many boats it's the only Regatta they enter. Seems to attract both racers and cruisers which is pretty cool. St Helens Cup has also been popular for a long time and I would love to be able to attend that. However, Plywood, I think it's stretching a long bow to suggest that the traditional clash of dates of LCMR and St Helens Cup justifies putting the Nationals on at that time as well. Hopefully that mistake won't happen again and I wonder if a properly organised state and national class asssociation would have helped with that. And on that topic, and back to the bigger issue of the number of 'hot chips' available, (and these are casual observations and collating numbers to be factual would be helpful), I think many sports or areas of some sports especially multihull racing seem to be going through a low ebb in their cycle at the moment. I don't really need to give too many examples to make the point but generally; the numbers attending multihull club racing around Australia, B2G, Pittwater Coffs, short handed series, Airlie, Magnetic, SOMR and possibly, but hopefully not but likely, the 2017 Nationals and LCMR entries seems to support that view. How have Bay to Bay and Surf to City numbers been going? Hammo is an interesting case in that buggerall boats (5) entered in the racing div yet the cruising div was hugely popular (33). Mind you, multihull racing in Kings Cup seems well attended. What about other OS multihull racing? Eg Europe and North America. I don't think foiling cats and multis in the AC, despite how cool they were to watch, made much difference to attendance numbers in general multihull sailing. And I don't think foiling monos (if that's what will happen) will make much difference to general mono numbers either. Yet will probably be spectacular too. Side show circus' both. But AC is going quite strong really where it could have died probably if kept in sluggish dull monos. Eg Admiral's cup. Yet some classes of sailing racing (mono and multi) are going gangbusters. Revivals of previously low numbered classes and also emergence of new classes. It's a curious thing. It would be interesting to collate numbers on that and try to work out what could/should be done to boost multihull yacht racing numbers. There are interesting things to consider when it comes to attendance numbers include the enthusiasm and the effectiveness of who is promoting and supporting a class. This, I suspect, is the greatest influence of all. You know, that magic mix of ingredients that fires up enthusiasm that makes people to want to take part. Making it desirable. Also other conderations include, are there too many classes and options?, the impact of the modern era of communications (such as SA!) and the diminishing role of traditional magazines, online magazines and websites and accessing information and the impact of social media, the economy, insurance, cycles of ebbs and flows of established classes and boats and emergence of new classes and boats eg Admirals cup, Syd-Hob, Pittwater- Lord Howe, 12, 13 14, 16 18 foot skiffs, Farr 40, Sydney 38, Lasers, trailerable multis, moths, America's cup, how well various individual local clubs are going ie some are killing it, some not so much, kiddie wink classes such as BIC Open, sabots, flying 11 etc, Oppies also ORMA 60/MOD70, G /Ultime Class, Imoca 60, B2G. Off the beach cats, sailboarding, Olympic classes. Etchells, sports trailerable monos class doesn't seem to be huge, yet J-70 looked huge.
  11. Multihull Lifeline requirements.

    Hmmm. "3.12.1 answers everything. " Not really to me. If the intention was that one must be clipped on if there isn't a continuous fence then surely it would sumply read "if lifelines are not continuous then the crew shall wear safety harnesses and be attached ... etc." that's not what it reads. There's an "or" in there. If it read "and are not continuous" not "or are not continuous" then there's no ambiguity. Big difference to my reckoning Many cats are fitted with lifelines which are not continuous ie just along the gunwhales and in addition most have front and rear beams. And if it's clear then can you explain to my thick head 3.12.4(d) "a cat without forward or aft crossbeams shall have transverse lifelines". Like I said it implies that a cat with front and rear beams shall therefore not be required transverse lifelines. I guess for what it's worth I can ask Australian Sailing. (Can't believe the name change.) Bruno, while not doubting the intelligence of having an aft transverse lifeline if there isn't a net behind the rear beam (which incidentally I have) there seems to be no indication of or specifications for said net. Eg, how wide it shoukd be, how it is to be attached, eg thecaft end of this net would be attached to what? As it is my rear net is attached according to normal net Regs on all four sides behind the main rear beam. It is attached to the hulls on the sides and a rear beam to aft and the main rear beam at its forward edge and yes it does afford an extra layer of safety however many cats have nothing behind the rear beam or they have a hard deck (rear patio) there, and then there's boats like Seawinds that have SS framwork above and behind the quite low rear beam incorperating Targa, Seats and BBQ etc. I saw one the other day on a SW1000 that was modified to be part of a continuos fence. My point is there's a difference between what is super safe (and possibly overkill with all the inherit disadvantages and what is actually required. I initially got excited about a continuous fence ie front and rear lifelines but now can think of as many cons as pros. Actually there's heaps more cons. Cons, Extra weight and windage. Trip, rope tangling, sail tearing and injury hazard. Complex and expensive to fabricate. Have to reach over or through or something to access the bow cleats and bow blocks and restricted access to stern steps. Makes access to davits and dinghy awkward. Pros, they might stop someone doing a forward roll or getting washed over the front beam in extreme conditions. Might stop someone falling down or doing a backward roll down the transom steps and out the back door. Or stumbling over or going arse over backwards over the rear beam if there is no rear net. Being clipped on at all times is a pain. (Although I normally am when solo or night time or offshore in rough conditions but not always). You can't cover every situation. But still unsure of what the requirement is.
  12. Just like to mention and to remind all multihullers of the 22nd consecutive running of LCMR coming up on the long weekend at the end of this month. Yes, I know, there's a clash with not only St Helena Cup as usual but also the Nationals in Brisbane this year. Hooray for multihull organisation. However, if you're not going to the nationals we'd love to see you at the LCMR. I'm confident we can still get 25 or so boats. Normal program. Friday's fun little Cat 4 ocean race and 2 races each for Saturday and Sunday with a 'Racing' div with extra sails (spinnakers screechers etc) And 'cruising' div with no extras. If Hammo is anything to go by cruising div could be becoming very popular. OMR pointscore is included for measured racing division boats and in the ocean race. But being the Regatta it is the main game is the Welcome to the Regatta feed and drinks for all on Friday evening (after the ocean race), getting out there for some fun racing on Saturday and Sunday, having a picnic, raft up and a swim between races and a great big dinner presentation and lots of prizes (no one misses out) on Sunday evening. Hope to see you there. Cheers, Stephen (on behalf RMYC and organisers.)
  13. SAers. Question: To comply with Cat 1-4 Regs for lifelines in Special Regs 3.12 on a catamaran it seems to me to be rather ambiguous as to whether one is required to fit front and rear transverse fences on a pretty standard bridgedeck cat design. Ie your pretty typical front beam at the forward edge of twin front trampolines and aft rear beam across the boat at the aft end of the cockpit setup. The ambiguity comes from reading 3.12.4(d) "a cat without forward or aft crossbeams shall have transverse lifelines etc.." That seems to imply that front and rear fences across the boat are not required on a 'normal' bridge cat setup that has front and rear beams. Any ideas? Ta, Stephen.
  14. OSR 2.04 (General Requirements)

    Came into this discussion late and too tired right now to even check what 2.04 is about but...I have a question, peobably a stupid one, but in regards to flares what would be the odds of having to use flares during a race and then going on to finish a race? Can't really think of any scenarios for that situation As for other consumables like water, co2 on life jackets, extinguishers, cooking gas etc are people really gonna use up or throw away those to reduce weight. Nahhhh. And someone protesting if those consumables are used rendering the boat's supplies non compliant.? That's just being ridiculous-shirely. Mind you, we lost a large portion of water with a shower mixer tap being flicked open by falling jacket in boisterous conditions on the first night of a race. We had enough other water but we had to be a bit miserly. And I think we used some of the emergency water when the race dragged on at the finish. Would've rather lost the water through having a nice hot shower. And what of boats with water makers?