12 metre

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222 F'n Saint

About 12 metre

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    English Bay

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  1. 12 metre

    New 6 Meter Rigs

    I believe Bob Miller (aka Ben Lexcen) once said something to the effect of "the fastest boat is the prettiest boat". So the jury may still be out on this one.
  2. 12 metre

    New 6 Meter Rigs

    What set of conditions was Bribon designed for? Given her launch date in 2017, I assume she was designed for the 6mR Worlds in Vancouver, but she never was shipped over here for it - I think they just sent Bribon Gallant. So was Bribon that much of a dog or was she never intended to go to Vancouver? Because it wasn't that hard to optimize for Vancouver condition. Donny Martin took New Sweden (an older not very competitive Norlin design) and "chopped and channelled" her into possibly the fastest boat at that regatta. Photo below is New Sweden after Donny's surgery on her and a brief description of the boat and mods are here; http://6mrwestcoast.com/new-sweeden/ The new one by Cela, is that the one in the photo back in post #13? May be an effective hull shape that allows a longer keel span, but she would have a large chain girth penalty, and that has never worked out too well in prior designs over the years that have gone that route because you have to give up so much sail area and/or sailing length.
  3. 12 metre

    Rudders and roundup

    Looks like this Randumb sock has cast his trolling line into this thread.
  4. 12 metre

    Leebow one last time?

    Certainly in the ocean, the "lee bow" phenomena does not exist. Either you are in favourable current or you're not. But maybe in a river, or some other shallow body of water there will be a velocity gradient so the bottom of the keel could encounter an apparent current angle different from that at the bow - maybe. Just spit ballin' here because I sail in the ocean and what happens in a river is of little or no concern to me.
  5. 12 metre

    Rudders and roundup

    Okay, I should have said an overlapper with reefed main vs full hoist blade & main. Twist off the sails. Hollow leech overlapper even better. Whatever it takes to lower the CE while keeping as much power on as possible - in a seaway.
  6. 12 metre

    Rudders and roundup

    +1 I had a boat with an outboard rudder and the tiller pressure was due to the unbalanced rudder. A lot of other guys with the same boat didn't like it, but personally I loved it. Mind you I was 30 years younger then so I may not feel the same way today. I drove a boat with a balanced rudder and hated it - no feel at all. Was like driving a '59 Caddy with power steering vs a Lotus Elan. Could not get the boat in a groove upwind at all, probably due to lack of familiarity so I would have figured it out at some point, but gawd I hated the feel, or lack thereof.
  7. 12 metre

    Rudders and roundup

    If by slog you mean a seaway, then yes, invariably a boat with a genoa, or better yet a No. 2 or a heavy No. 1 with a hollow leach will beat a boat with a blade or No.3 up. Those sails have a lower CE so you can power up more, which is what you want in a seaway. In flat water, you will sail higher and faster with a blade.
  8. 12 metre

    Rudders and roundup

    Or shooting the mark.
  9. 12 metre

    New 6 Meter Rigs

    Yes, realized my mistake when I noticed the Swiss flag on the transom. Looks like the same boat posted by Zenmasterfred. So any idea which boat SUI 140 is? Found an article that indicates the Juan K boat shown under construction back in 2017 was launched as Bribon XVII in May 2017, and yes she has a vertical transom https://www.expansion.com/nauta360/regatas/2017/05/25/5926fc77ca4741ef548b45a9.html Stella (ESP 16) is another Juan K 6mR that competed at the 2019 6mR Worlds in Hanko. Not sure if she was a new build or if she is ex-Bribon XVII, but there is a photo of a boat with the same vertical transom in that event. So, onto the photo I posted of the new Spanish 6mR from Jun 2020, I doubt it is a Juan K either since it does not have the vertical transom that seems to be favoured by Juan K. The transom on that one looks quite similar to SUI 140. However, the midship section bares a lot of similarity to Bribon XVII. Anyways, I really cocked this one up in my speculations. My bad.
  10. 12 metre

    New 6 Meter Rigs

    Glad BobBill started this thread. Found a photo of what is described as a new 6mR nearing completion dated Jun 2020. Some similarities to the Juan K 6 shown above. Maybe a development of it IDK. Keel has similarities to USA (US 61) whose keel was designed by either Mull or Calderon (depending on who you talk to). Torpedo bulb with no winglets and no bow canard. Midships section has a narrow IOR look to it.
  11. 12 metre

    to work or not to work.

    In the present time in Canada, residential tenants have the option of paying rent or not. The banks have been forced to permit mortgage deferrals (I thought Aus had a similar deferral program). And anyone who applied (even students living at home) receives a monthly $2000 CERB or CESB payment. I have also read that some people have double dipped on the CERB by applying for it through both CRA and Service Canada - no one in the government asked any questions about whether someone actually qualified or not - the cheques were rushed out ASAP. Of course it will ultimately be a bit more complex than that come tax time - and hopefully the cheaters will be caught at that time. So now some businesses are looking to bring back employees but are finding they would rather stay home or work minimal hours in order to continue collecting the full CERB amount (in other words, they will make more by not working than working full time or even working at all)
  12. 12 metre

    New 6 Meter Rigs

    Unfortunately, a 6mR, 110, and Flying Fifteen have very little in common other than being old classes. A 6mR is about 50% longer and displaces around 10x as much Other than offwind in a breeze a 6mR will sail circles around the other two. The classic 6mRs are almost as fast the moderns (PHRF 125 vs 108 IIRC) Actually 125 is a bit of a gift for a classic IMO. Pretty much nothing can touch a well sailed 6mR in the light stuff.
  13. 12 metre

    New 6 Meter Rigs

    Pretty certain that is the Juan K design that was the topic of a thread here a few years ago: Yeah, try building this in plywood in your garage. BTW, I don't think it is a fast 6mR since they didn't bring it to Vancouver for the 6mR worlds back in 2017. Ain't gonna plane no how either - but no 6mR ever will.
  14. 12 metre

    Rudders and roundup

    The Rutter thing is a SA inside joke (3,000 sq ft catamaran thread), much like the use of the word elk on here.
  15. 12 metre

    Britton Chance jr designs archives

    The scale factor was due the size limitation of the SIT tank, which I believe could only handle models up to 4 ft in length. In the following Americas Cup, 21 foot models were being used for Enterprise. As to Chance being fooled, I will quote a post I found in boatdesign.net on the topic: " Many years after the fact Pete DeSaix (who ran the Stevens tank) claimed he knew Mariner was no good when Britt was testing the hull. I believe he told Britt the boat was not the best they'd seen. But Britt was very secretive and wouldn't allow anyone to see the data, Pete claimed Britt took it all away before they could do anything comparative with it." I can't verify any of that quote, so make of it what you will - but here is the page the quote is from: https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/britton-chance-portfolio.20892/page-3