12 metre

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  1. 12 metre

    Sun Fast 3600

    Probably does well in a breeze against other IRC fat bastards...but for racing in North America, especially in any light air region, she will likely suffer given her numbers. SA/D of 25.6 is on the low side, especially for a frac rig with twin rudders. While trendy, twin rudders add a lot of extra wetted surface. It seems that quite a few Quest 30s in NA have been converted to single rudder, and they have a similar SA/D of 24.6 As for planing, a D/L of 150 is pretty high for any boat with aspirations of planing. But it depends on what you call planing. Some seem to believe that when a boat exceeds "hull speed", then it is planing. My old 27 had a D/L of 150 and we hit 14 kts one time, but I didn't consider that planing, we were just surfing IMO. The Moore 24 below - now that meets my definition of planing: Although ironically the video is titled "Surfing a Moore 24"
  2. 12 metre

    Keel Bolt Questions

    Or beg or borrow a torque multiplier like this one - max torque of 1,110 ft-lb https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/torque-multiplier/A-p8160665f
  3. 12 metre

    the greatest

    And yet, an old 36 ft pos IOR shitter (the venerable Sweet Okole) is currently 120 miles ahead of the J/35 in this years Pacific Cup. Actually, she is ahead of every other boat that started the same day. OK, so, she is actually a Farr One Ton, and made from dead trees at that, but still. And way nicer looking than any J/35.
  4. 12 metre

    the greatest

    I would add that Peterson also came up with the trapezoidal keel - which is still a pretty efficient planform. It also had the added advantage of working well with the IOR CGF And as noted in another thread, Peterson really began the trend to higher SA/D ratios in IOR. Yes the Santa Cruz ULDB movement was making boats go faster, but not within the confines of IOR - which at that time was the only thing that really mattered.
  5. 12 metre

    the greatest

    Other than being on the lighter side of the displacement spectrum the pintail designs were almost the complete opposite of the kiwi approach. MH vs frac, narrow stern vs broad stern. Steep rise to the stern vs shallow rise Large SA and short L vs small SA and Long L Med Displacement vs Light Displacement I'll agree Ganbare defined the era from 1973 to about 1976 But the writing was on the wall after the 1975 QTC win by 45 Deg South, and reinforced by the performance of Magic Bus at the 1976 QTC I doubt you ever saw a new pintail design after 1976 or so.
  6. 12 metre

    the greatest

    The thread is about the most important single design. With Farr you would have to start with Gerontius or 45 Deg South (Farr 727). Gerontius did surprisingly well at AC and 45 Deg won the QTC The difference is that the OTC was THE event of that era while the QTC was not of the same stature. Ganbare dominated her fleet while 45 Deg did well enough to win. You mention pushing water, but you have to remember Ganbare was ironically thought to be too small and light to be a competitive One Ton. IIRC, when Gabare rounded the turning mark the wrong way, they were so far ahead that no one saw them do it. They later retired once they realized their error. I wonder how many pros would do the same thing today if they thought they could get away with it. While Ganbare is certainly one of the most important single designs, I'll go with Windward Passage. No boat I can think of had as long of an active and successful racing career. Also perhaps the best name ever.
  7. 12 metre

    Beneteau 38.1 Performance Version

    Fair enough.
  8. 12 metre

    Beneteau 38.1 Performance Version

    I don't recall mentioning structural failure - just structural issues. In the world of Limit States Design (LRFD in the US), a design has to satisfy two criteria: 1. Ultimate Limit State, where you are into plastic deformation and impending failure 2. Serviceability Limit State where a structure no longer satisfies it's intended use (i.e. a floor deflecting too much when walked on) When I said structural issues, I was referring to servicabilty failure in the sense that the bow sections will tend to bend and twist which will affect sailing performance (it's intended use) more than would be the case if the bow port lights were absent. And yes, you could account for that in the design and add some additional structure to compensate - but that would involve added weight in the second worst place you can add weight to a sailboat. In other words, it is almost impossible for these port lights to not compromise performance - it's just a question of to what degree
  9. 12 metre

    Snowflakes and sailing

    Hotfoot 20. On Bow River perhaps? Poster is from Red Deer AB.
  10. 12 metre

    Trailer-able performance cruisers under 5k?

    Probably, but you're looking at somewhere around $10k rather than $5k. Are they trailerable? Depends on how you define trailerable. If you mean you can put it on a trailer, almost any boat would be. If you mean launch or put away in an hour, then likely no.
  11. 12 metre

    Newbie from Seattle eyeing getting this boat...

    I can't argue with that.
  12. 12 metre

    Beneteau 38.1 Performance Version

    The fact it is an Oceanis pretty much says it all. Aesthetics aside, the large recessed topside port lights are an issue for me - and not just for obvious reasons like potential for leaks and added drag if they become immersed when heeled. I'm thinking more along the lines of structural issues. Studies have shown the bow sections of a hull (topsides in particular), roughly forward of the mast experience high slamming loads. Most boats can use additional stiffening in this area. Here, they have removed structure from this critical area. This is compounded by the chine running to the bow, creating very flat panel sections in the bow area, which have inherently poor stiffness. I suspect the bow of this boat will bend and twist quite willingly - at least when compared to a hull that did not have these big forward port lights. The German mainsheet system looks like a trip hazard, which is acceptable on a real racer, but not so much for a typical Oceanis owner. On top of that, there is no traveller, which pretty much removes any performance aspirations.
  13. 12 metre

    Newbie from Seattle eyeing getting this boat...

    Decent little boat, but MUCH shorter than what the OP stated as one of his main requirements.
  14. 12 metre

    Non Skid Gelcoat

    It's been done before: https://www.boatdesign.net/threads/thicken-up-gel-coat.44842/ I toyed with it on some small samples - maybe 1 sq ft or so, but bunged it up - mainly by making the age old mistake of going over it again since it didn't look right the first time. Need to find a roller that will create the surface you want. Some articles say to let the roller do the work and also that it can become a real skin scraper if you don't get the surface right. IDK, I may try it again once I get to that actual stage in my project.