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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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About WGWarburton

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  1. Hi, I can see that- Although I havn't done any research at this price-point, as it's a couple of orders of magnitude out of my league, I'm happy enough to accept that this design is attractively priced - my point was more about the "designed for the masses" comment than the price on the sticker... Maybe my view of the world is narrower than I thought... my assumption was that a $250K toy would be something enjoyed by a minority... Cheers, W.
  2. Hi, A couple of seemingly connected comments in the above grab my attention briefly: The IC37 by Melges is designed to be a one-design for the masses An attractive price of $259,000 I'd like to join these masses someday... Currently many of the families I introduce to sailing struggle to justify $1000 (or so, in Sterling) for a boat that their kid needs to have to go to junior regattas... I know there are many tiers of affluence from the "Just About Managing" to the "if you have to ask..." but Really? Seems to me we're a long, long way from a $260K toy being a product for the masses... Cheers, W. P.S. you can be One-Design without being Single-Manufacturer- Optimists are one-design, achieved through measurement, despite having many sail suppliers. I've heard some interesting stories about SMOD sails, where gains can be made by carefully picking which sail you take of the rack at the loft... Your manufacturing tolerances need to be very carefully managed by someone to ensure an acceptably level playing field...
  3. Hi, Optimists are a huge class for good reasons. That doesn't mean they are the perfect solution for everyone's problem but to write them off as the work of the devil or a piece of shit suggests a lack of understanding. Even if there is another boat that ticks the same boxes, it doesn't have the international class infrastructure that the Oppy does, and probably won't have it anytime soon. That counts for quite a bit. If a kid/parent wants to be able to race their dinghy locally but have the option open to move on to regional, national and international competition then the options will be pretty limited. Fans of SMODs should note that the Oppy one-design format allows sails, spars and even foils to be varied to suit the size of the sailor, extending the competitive life of both the boat and the sailor. One key thing to bear in mind is that it's very easy to sail an Oppy badly- if you are new to sailing, you are likely to be sailing badly so having a boat that is easy to sail that way is a Very Good Thing. It's less scary, less cold, and being less exciting is also generally a good thing at this stage. The boat is also very, very difficult to sail well... which means that the front end of the racing fleet is likely to be a challenging place to get to... hence the number of Olympians who learned to sail in Oppies. So, that's two groups of sailors well catered for- small kids learning to sail and kids that want competitive racing. Often I find that the first becomes the second pretty quickly! Any boat is a compromise and no boat is ideal... In many ways what you are looking to do is minimise the bad points, especially those that are specific to your own situation (eg I teach small kids on cold water, keeping them dry helps a lot. eg2: a nearby club gets serious tidal flows, as a result they don't do very small kids and don't use Oppies). One other example I'd like to cite is of a parent who came to our club as a cruising sailor and was adamant that he didn't plan to get involved in racing, just wanted his kids to learn to sail- his younger son is now in our national junior programme and has qualified for several international event teams... things change :-) So, to the OP- I'd advise not focussing too much on the choice of boat but look harder at the opportunities in your area- if there's a good junior sailing programme at a club nearby then get engaged with that before buying a boat.
  4. Hi, Good post PropellerSafety... I hope that we're in agreement that it's not a simple issue and a decision about the use of guards needs to be made with careful consideration of the risks inherent in the particular environment and application the boat is intended for, not mandated (either by government or other organisation) in a knee-jerk reaction to a particular tragedy. Cheers, W.
  5. Depends on the child. My usual answer to this (I run the junior sailing at my local, small, sailing club) is "some are ready at five years old, some are not ready at fifty..." The main issue is water confidence- if they are enjoying playing close to water in a boat then they can learn, if they are terrified of falling in, they won't learn anything (any age). After that, the main difference is teaching style- if they are over about ten years or so (depends on the kid...) then they can be taught by using drills and explanations, if they are younger then what you are aiming to do is to put them into an environment where they can learn, not "teach" them. So you put them in an Oppy, show them where to sit and how to hold the "stick" and the "rope" and get them to steer their boat across the wind to where someone will grab them and turn them around to sail back (on a rib?). Once they can steer, you get them to tack (being VERY specific about facing forwards, not swapping hands early etc) and then they can figure-8, then close reach, to get them going upwind, then set them up to work out how to "zig-zag" up to their destination. Fit in all the other stuff they need- knots, rights of way, capsize recovery etc when the weather's wrong for sailing. Oppies have some big advantages over other small singlehanders that easily outweigh the downsides in most (not all) cases. Bigger kids (early teens) are better in a bigger boat. A laser is too powerful (yes, even a 4.7). In the UK we often use Toppers, I think most countries have something similar- Splash? Sabot? etc Are Sunfish the US equivalent? I haven't sailed one but the 7sqm sail looks too big, unless you are in a light wind area. Main thing is the fleet- it's a lot more fun to sail with your friends, and that's a lot more fun if you all have the same type of boat. A kid doesn't don't want to be the only Oppy in a fleet of Teras any more than they want to be the only Tera in a fleet of Oppies... what does your local club sail? If it's Picos or Bugs, try the next club and see if they know better... Those El Toros look pretty good! Local geography/climate matters a bit- Oppies work well for me because the high freeboard and stability keep kids drier. The fact that you need to bail them discourages small kids from capsizing for laughs and hence getting cold and quitting (Scottish Lochs have cold water!). If you have light winds, warm water & sun that's a bit less of a concern!! Cheers, W.
  6. Seems to me that the hook is right at the beginning! First thing ever written on the thread: "Have you ever wondered (hypothetically) just how far you could go if you set sail one day and headed out over the horizon in a Craiglist special 4ksb with almost no preparation? Well...now you dont have to because....." Yet, here we are, 18,295 posts and almost four years later, still wondering... the question remains unanswered, except to say that the answer is (or can be) much, much longer (though maybe not much further...) than we all thought! Cheers, W. P.S. Not that I was here to witness the first departure, bit of poetic license taken...
  7. If prop-guards were a magic bullet, we'd all have them: http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/training/Training Notices and Guidance/Training Guidance/TG01-13 Prop Guards.pdf I don't think anyone's mentioned entrapment risk. I would be wary of compromising the performance of a "safety boat" that would potentially need to be able to get to a turtled boat, and manoeuvre efficiently beside it to help a trapped sailor. No easy fix: attitude, training, experience... and there's no evidence that any of these were missing in this tragedy. Cheers, W.
  8. There's context being those numbers, too- the low attendance for the Oppies in '13 is because they rotate the event location around the country and many south coast families choose not to drive to Largs, Scotland for the event. Same in 2016 but with the added hit that they changed the squad qualifiers and the Nationals don't count for national winter training places anymore... Same with the Toppers (GBR design plastic plank for teens)- the 2016 Nationals were in Scotland, so numbers were down. Entry for this year in Wales is already 172 and still open... will be up again when back in Weymouth on the south coast, because that's where most of the sailors are... Cheers, W.
  9. Really? I find that hard to believe... A Star weighs over 650Kg... Even if the keel was removed the hull would exceed the weight limits for the vast majority of European cars and vans... with the trailer added in as well? Surely not...! It might be possible, might even be legal (though I doubt it) but common? I say again.. surely not! Cheers, W.
  10. Sadly, it's all more complicated than it first appears... The cycle helmet and ski helmet scenarios are probably pretty sound examples to explore... Not because the risk levels, types of accident etc are comparable but because the way the sport and public responds is relevant. We are getting (from the sounds of it we already are in the USA) to the point in skiing where you may be seen as reckless or foolish if you are not wearing one, though I've yet to see any actual evidence that they are effective. I'm not going to get involved in a complicated exposition here, just would like to highlight that, for example, cycling is relatively safe in Holland, where few wear helmets, that there's little solid statistical evidence that wearing a helmet on a bicycle actually makes you safer, overall and that the perception that cycling is dangerous does a lot of harm to its popularity as a healthy mode of transport. After all, if it's safe, why would you need to wear a helmet? It's already been pointed out a few times in the thread that if you really want to reduce head injuries in children the thing to do would be to mandate helmet use in cars... though I shudder to think what the effect of that on other road users would be, if it applied to the drivers!!! Concussion and brain injury is a hot issue at the moment... one of my sailing friends recently published a paper on the effect of "heading" a football on the brain which garnered a lot of publicity internationally.... but her son doesn't wear a helmet when sailing... Cheers, W.
  11. Joakim, Insurance: be wary when trying to apply logic to insurance underwriting. It's a different branch of mathematics. It seems there's general agreement here that a 40.7 can be repaired properly, and I daresay that with the right documentation it would be possible to get it insured by someone. Whether that would be cost effective is another question and it might well depend on your local laws and culture (risk of liability varies). What seems to be the case, though, is that a 40.7 that has been grounded is (currently) determined by, at least some, mainstream insurers to be a higher risk than many other boats, so they may decline to quote. In the case of the Bavarias you mention above, there's been over ten years of data accumulated since the risk was first observed, so it's perhaps not surprising that insurers are more comfortable covering them. The key thing for the insurer is to be able to assess the risk- if the manufacturer won't stand behind a repair then the boat is arguably no longer a "production" boat, so the risk is now unknown. If the repair is well executed, and documented as such by a surveyor, then it's likely that an underwriter could insure it as a one-off, if they were looking for that sort of business, but you might need to go to a specialist and you could expect the premium to be higher. If the owner can't find an insurer that will accept the repair/survey that's been carried out then from their point of view the boat is "uninsurable"... That does not mean that the boat is unsafe. Just that the owner is unable to prove it to the satisfaction of the insurers they are in discussion with. You can easily see that having Beneteau write a nice letter confirming that the repair is at least as good as the original would help, here, and that a refusal to do so might raise alarm bells... AFAIK all insurers will expect full disclosure of anything relevant to the policy. If the owner doesn't know that the boat has been grounded then they can't declare it: fair enough, but if they find out that is has after the policy was taken out then they are OBLIGED to inform the insurance company of the change in circumstances, and failure to do so would potentially invalidate their insurance, as it changes the basis of the contract. There's an interesting issue if a failure occurs and the owner denies knowledge- how would they prove they didn't know that there might be a problem? This sort of thing is likely to come up when a claim is made (and the stakes are higher) rather than when the policy is taken out... Not a good place for the claimant to be... or worse their family, if the owner went down with the boat. W.
  12. At the risk of stating the obvious... If the owner didn't disclose the history of the boat, he won't be insured... W.
  13. Hi, E-boat? Proven transats. Designed 1976, still being made in Italy. http://www.rlmr.co.uk/E-Boats/ ..or an Etap? Cheers, W.
  14. http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=89257 Hi, Been looking at some archived content- the "Half Tonners" thread used to run to two pages but is now showing "no replies" and displaying only one- looks like it's got corrupted? Am I missing something? I think a new post was submitted recently... surely submitting a new post to an archived thread shouldn't take a whole page offline? Thread is above (can't seem to format this properly... sorry!) Cheers, W.
  15. That's great info. Thanks for the responses. Sounds like we would fit in if we can get there! Family are keen sailors (both kids have been dinghy sailing since they were small and daughter is in NJS), so they would be ok. Good to know. Thanks again! Cheers, W.