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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

sreiz

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About sreiz

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  • Location
    On the shore of Lake Geneva, Switzerland
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    Multihulls and red wines

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  1. KISS T30 Trimaran

    Difficulties to adequately twist the mainsail and also to produce enough forestay tension. This is now resolved with hydraulics and dyneema with virtually no creep (DM20)
  2. KISS T30 Trimaran

    Stefan Törnblom and I are discussing offering a new type of Aerorig on the T30 using hydraulic downhauls fore and aft. With modern high modulus textile and carbon materials this would certainly be a very interesting alternative to the rotating wingmast in particular. As a comparison, we have measured a maximal main sheeting load around 1600 Nm on the T30 with wing mast compared to 90 Nm maximal on the wing sail version when sailing close winded at 15 knots true wind speed and no reef in either sail.
  3. KISS T30 Trimaran

    Seagul, Thanks for your question on the soft wing sail. This sail is still not ready to hit a larger market. The 7th generation this year comprises a number of simplifications, such as getting rid of the boom, removing parts of the elements in the camber system and taking the control lines to the outside of the wing to create more power than what was previously possible. We can now produce about 400 mm of displacement between the windward and leeward parts of the wing envelope which is about the maximum of what is required to produce sufficient power at open wind angles. Also, the nose of the wing can easily be pointed upwind. Close winded the wing tacks through 68-70 degrees at 12 knots true wind speed and at 8 knots of boat speed. Obviously, there is no conventional jib that can be used at such angles. VMG is approximately the same as tacking through 90 degrees with a jib at the same wind speed. The wing rotates around a 15 m high modulus spreaderless carbon mast weighing 52 kg, that can be canted 12 degrees to either side. Canting improves performance by 10-12%.
  4. KISS T30 Trimaran

    Hi triple trouble. I'm the one responsible for the technical side of the T30 project whereas Hans Ahlinder is managing the commercial aspects. Here is some first hand information. T29 was the prototype, non folding version, of which two have been built. One of these has a conventional rotating carbon wing mast rig and sails in Brittany, France. The other, which is mine serves as a platform for development of a soft wing sail, now in its 7th generation, presented in Seahorse and also on sailinganarchy a year ago. The definite production version, which is folding horizontally without water stays, was named T30, first because it's 30 feet LOA, and second to distinguish it from the prototype T29. It has been sailed and raced extensively this year to test any potential weakness of the all carbon construction, weighing in at about 1350 kg total sailing weight including sails, engine, mattresses and warps, and before going into series production. The T30 is also different from the T29 in the deck construction and in having a toilet compartment. Also, the side hulls have been lowered about 50 mm and the boat widened by 20 cm compared to the T29. If you need any further information, contact me by email: reiz@analgesie.ch
  5. Folded trimaran's stability

    True, an exception to the larger dragonfly tris. You will also find older 800 and 25 with wing masts. I was referring to the 28, 960, 32, 1000 and 35 models.
  6. Folded trimaran's stability

    Trimarans that fold horizontally are more stable folded than those that fold vertically, perhaps with the exception of the Dragonfly 28 that has little volume in the side hulls and folds to 2.5 m, compared to the Seaon 96 and the Kiss T30 carbon (the production version of the T29), that fold horizontally to about 3.40 m. They enter a regular berth for a similarly sized modern monohull. In the T30, the large volume side hulls, when completely folded, are positioned 105 mm lower in the water compared to the unfolded position, thereby increasing stability. Quorning refuses to equip his trimarans with wing masts because of the risk of tipping over when folded, whereas wing profiles are standard on the Seaon and the T30. According to the manufacturers' instruction books, it is still recommended that their rigs are secured sideway with ropes to the dock in wind strengths above 40-50 knots to avoid being tangled up in the neighbours' rigs. This is certainly more a function of the sea state than of the risk to tip over.
  7. Dyneema Max Technology

    The heat stretching makes the dyneema more compact and therefore stronger. For the same diameter this procedure produces a rope that weighs more. We have tested different diameters and qualities of dynema from various manufacturers both spliced and unspliced and the average numbers as given by the manufacturers are correct with little standard deviation. As I said, for monohulls, creep is important, in contrast, for multihulls on which stays are lashed to textile chain plates, it has absolutely no importance. Usually, after splicing you load the stay to estimated static load which will set the splices. If you compare Marlow Max 90 with their DM 20 here are some numbers for 7 mm that we use for our trimaran standing rigging: Breaking strengths spliced (Max versus DM20) 8067 vs 6272 kg, stretch (mm/mm/1000kg): 00.0049 vs 00.0063. Creep is significantly less for DM 20 whereas stretch is greater so the difference on our forestay lenth is 2 vs 3 cm resulting in a change in the rake of 7 vs 10 mm. Completely insignificant for a tri where you can adjust length by re-lashing.
  8. Dyneema Max Technology

    Hampidjan is the producer of dux. On their web site that I posted in my previous comment you find their catalogue which contains the technical information on the DM20. It's breaking strength is clearly less than that of dux for the same diameter. If you are rigging a monohull it might be an idea to use the DM20, for a multihull with larger angles in the standing rigging and less tension in the rigging, and where you use lashing, you should go for the appropriate breaking strength, 2-3 times the maximal static load. What I know, the best breaking strength for diameter available on the market is the Marlow MAX90. It is a ton higher than that of dux for 7 mm.
  9. Dyneema Max Technology

    Go to www.hampidjan.is for technical information on DM20. The breaking strength is considerably lower than Max 90 and stretch significantly worse so you will end up with large diameter shrouds.