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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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About Unplugged

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  • Location
    Ontario Canada
  • Interests
    racing , Cruising
  1. Laser 28?

    I think you are right . Carrying too much sail also kills you up wind
  2. Laser 28?

    Thanks for the correction , I think they raised it recently to that - in a blow you can't have too much meat on the rail
  3. Laser 28?

    Class rules are 1000 lbs for the crew if I recall correctly , PHRF is wide open .
  4. Laser 28?

    As with all boats everything is a compromise . While the L28 certainly wipes out it is not the lone boat doing it when it does . I would expect that more modern sport boats are better now. If I was doing 11kts power reaching in say a 1984 C&C 35 I would be at risk of wipe outs too, it the case of the laser in the same conditions you would be at 14+ kts . While the L28 does not compare favorably to a modern sport boat for wipeouts why would anyone expect it too ? Probably because it drives and sails so much like one .
  5. Laser 28?

    Can do ,I have the original drawings for the boat from them . Not going to do it just yet but would like to see what is up with it . Was thinking more of a wing . I would imagine as the glue in the grid fails it overloads other areas . I know they can take damage from groundings too. Anyway , will do a preemptive glassing in one day soon .
  6. Laser 28?

    Well to be fair I did not include for stripping the boat and clean up or repainting , just said the glass work would take about a weekend . Fiberglass work is easy and I strip the boat every fall anyway and scrub it front to back in the spring . To get to the grid does not require much dismantling , might need to pull the batteries though , pull up the floor and open the benches and it is all right there - floor comes up every fall anyway . I was working from how long it took to glass in the whole bulkhead at the chain plates-start to finish couple of hours, repaint 10 min (seattle grey matches the factory color FYI) , yep boat needs a front to back cleaning after , but then don't they get that every spring ?
  7. Laser 28?

    Yes , I was guessing more like 200 lbs on the keel should do it but have not done any math and I would guess for the 400# they did . My aim would be more middle of the road as opposed to making the boat as stiff as some others . These boats are high powered for what they are , a cruiser /racer, and you change down from the one as early as 8kts true . So many leave too much up and it does not pay at all . You discover that fast in a fleet of them . You will also note that those wiping out are in double digits of hull speed in a 28 foot 1980's cruising/racer displacement hull . The area they suffer is short handed sailing , they need meat on the rail to sail to their PHRF - you owe time to bigger boats of the same era and they have always been well raced so the #'s reflect that . When cruising I will often have a reef in and be at hull speed and when it gets light I am still sailing while others are adrift or powering .
  8. Laser 28?

    I have thought that if I ever short hand cruise my laser I would go with the bulb = to 2 guys on the rail . Do you have the drawings ? As for the grid , I believe that it has more to do with 1980's glues than the grid not being strong enough . They glued the grid in and now 30 years later of hard sailing and being put away wet the glue is failing . The chain plates are a particular concern - so you tab em in - takes a few hours and then stronger than new . Will next year tab my whole grid in- take about a weekend and for the heck of it the hull to deck joint while at it . It's all so easy to get at after all , except for behind the breakers - rest is easy .
  9. Laser 28?

    Do you know which rudder you had? I find that the rudder is not small so much as the rig is powerful . The rudder is not tiny but both the keel and the rudder are minimal and you can stall the flow on both. As for upsizing the rudder , well at 18 knots you do need a safety valve of some sort , it is a 28 foot 80's racer /cruiser displacement hull after all .
  10. Laser 28?

    Here is the thing about your wipeouts - not many 28 foot cruising boats doing 18 knots in waves that big won't wipe out occasionally . Particularly anything from the early 1980's era . Heck , not a lot of 37 foot boats that would not be wiping out , I suppose you can find a sport boat that would do 18 knots without wipeouts but the list is short . Laser has a bit of a rep for wipeouts , but it is an easy boat to handle , you put the kite up in anything where others won't even dare and carry double digits for hours on end . When it does crash the cockpit comes up dry and at 4000lb she accelerates again in a flash . It is the gusts that usually does you in where a more heavily ballasted boat might give you more wiggle room , cept you would not still have the kite up on it or be doing 18 knots . Not perfect , and there might be better out there but I have no idea what can match it for the same bucks .
  11. Laser 28?

    There are two different rudders on them , purported to have the same surface area so no hit and both class legal . I have two slightly different versions sitting in my driveway right now . I find with my boat when I wipe out I deserved it, remember lightly ballasted boat and she will be over pretty far before the rudder lets go . So you do get a warning , you can get laid down by a sudden gust or regaining wind as you pass a bigger and supposed to be faster boat (tip dig as you come out from their shadow ) . When on the edge crew movement can screw you too- It's fun though power reaching with the chute up the whole crew in the back corner of the boat steady 11's -12's all day long . Not sure what she will hit dead -ish down wind surfing down waves , so far never hit the limit .
  12. Laser 28?

    I have not tried to get one , but that is what is reported on the Laser 28 site . They are pretty good on that stuff .
  13. Laser 28?

    The boats are pretty well matched out of the factory , and the construction quality was quite good however some are all kevlar and some glass ,most have closed mold decks, the first few do not . Performance seems to be near as the same across them . Naturally owner neglect is the biggest issue leading to varrience between boats apart from repowering . The salt can be hard on them . Masts are also unavailable - it was custom . The thing with the engine that would make the most difference is drag .
  14. Laser 28?

    No Idea, but the white one looks to be a weed collector while having less wetted surface ...... . Certainly would be a pain figuring it out when Lasers fleets often finish overlapped - 3 lasers and a committee boat in this finish - you can't see the other one because he is behind me and got me by about 2 feet. That same guy had the boot come loose on his sail drive in his first year and he was 1/4 knot lower than us . In this case , not making excuses I had an issue with a bad repair on the keel and while I was well out in front from better luck/tactics (depends on who you ask) I just could not hold him off boat for boat . Further up the thread you will see a shot of 5 lasers all hitting the offset at the same time . So while I agree totally on a boat at this age it is time to start giving a break for mods that are beyond your control like re-powering it is beyond me how one would keep the wonderful benefit of one design where the boats are so equal and where unfair advantages/ disadvantages are kept to a minimum. I suppose as long as it was a sail drive in the same location and no smaller dimensionally it would be OK , but things get odd if you change to a shaft or outboard . Adding = weight down below will not be = if the drag is different . In fact adding weight down low could make you faster as the boats are lightly ballasted and benefit strongly from meat on the rail.
  15. Laser 28?

    True , almost any engine swap is going to be heavier and at least the same drag short of an outboard .