1215

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  1. Nothing wrong with any of that. I don't have a single "wall hanger" tool. Most of what I have is my or her grandfather's stuff --everything else is yard or estate sales so someone else's grandfather owned it. Nothing is a wall hanger because I have a hard time believing that the guy who made those tools pictured them all pretty hanging on a wall. You won't overstrike (that much) if you use them often. How are the plastic tools? Are they balanced? Also, I can't imagine teaching my kid or grandkid how to 3D print an axe handle.
  2. What do you have? I have a bit of an OCD obsession with blunt striking objects and sharp things. I have a lot of old axes and hammers. The only worthless/meaningless axe I have is the no-name 3/4 boys axe I used as a kid. Other than that, everything else is pretty cool. (probably have about 30 restored axes) My go-to axes are a U.S. Army (1945) Plumb hatchet or a 4# Plumb Victory full axe. Both of which I picked up at yard sales. Somehow I found a keeper. She doesn't mind linseed oil (smell). Says it reminds her of her grandpa's house when she was a kid. Not so sure she will feel the same way about MEKP but it seems we may be about to find out.
  3. Funny you mention an axe. I completely understand the reference. I have her grandfather's axe. Her dad gave it to me. When I got it, the haft (handle) was split and the poll (back, butt) was cracked and was missing metal in a V pattern. Her grandfather (her mom's dad) was a tool and die maker (a good one) but her dad --not so much. He used an axe and a hammer to split wood, not a maul, sledge and wedges. The axe was ridden hard and put up wet. (beat to shit) Obviously this is a sentimental item but also this is a very early 5# (five pound) Collins Legitimus axe. Very hard to find and rare to come across them on eBay or even yard sales/flea markets. Axe was made in CT and had the old, hand stamped logo (so very early, funky hand/crown and no box around logo). I heated the haft (handle) out of the eye, glued it back together and then used calipers to take measurements every inch down the haft. I further took the haft to three different paint stores to get an approximate patina/color of the haft matched. Then I went online (the Internet is wonderful, isn't it??) and found a new-old-stock hickory haft. One with good grain orientation and ring pattern consistent with the original haft. Fixing the axe head was easy. Found a blacksmith/forger in CT who was able to reverse some of the mushrooming (from using a hammer on the poll) and make it look like the damage never happened. Then I sat down in front of the fire pit with a khukuri knife (from Nepal), a draw knife, a rasp and my calipers. (sort of like when we fair a keel or a rudder) Only took about four hours. Then put the haft in the head, ended up going a few shades lighter on the hickory stain, painted the axe head red (was originally part of a series that was sold to fire departments) and I used it. Well, I let the axe soak submerged in boiled linseed oil for a few weeks before I started using it. Then I used the axe. (equivalent to splitting about a cord of wood, holy crap that'll get you in shape) I knew the whole time her dad would never take it back. Wasn't expecting him to get choked up about it though. I knew the whole time I was restoring a badass axe for me --that (god willing) he can see his grandkids to use someday. That probably wasn't the response you were expecting. There are free J24's out there and half of the J24's I see in the $5k range aren't much better than a free boat. Having done the work, the only difference between a disaster and a $5k boat is a small amount of time vs. a small amount of money. Sad part about the class is that it feels like you either need to buy a 5000+ series boat --or get something with a trailer because the scrap value of the lead + the trailer is most of the value in the boat.
  4. I think I've found another boat. Price is right, it's not publicly listed, it's a Fleet 50 boat that's been through the Waterline shop a time or two... With a trailer maybe I'll do both boats.
  5. Yes. I just don't want to be insulting to a lot of these guys. I grew up with a lot of them. I know how much my dad put into the boat we had. Yes, cash is king. (I worked on wall street, I understand that very well.) To be honest, the disaster boats (early TPI) were a mess. Keels were all over the place... Forward, back, way back --even some too far forward. If I happen to have found an early boat that's an absolute disaster... Except the keel is (legit) roughly at max forward, how much is a disaster boat worth that has its keel at max forward from the factory. (all lead, no trailing edge chop and bondo up front)
  6. Thinking about fixing up a J24. The deck is trashed but the boat can be saved (with considerable effort). It's an old boat and it needs everything. Literally everything. How do you pull a soft deck off a boat? Do I just build a female cradle on the top of the boat then drill through and bolt the deck to the cradle, undo all the deck/hull fasteners and have at it? (get a few friends and maybe have a hoist on hand and pull off the deck) Then what? If I make sure the cradle is square and solid can I fix the deck up-side down on the cradle or should I fix the hull first then put the deck back on and deal with the wet balsa from above?
  7. One of my concerns is the boat being competitive. Put me in any of the last 10 boats that have won the worlds and I can't come close to sailing at that level. (I know, I grew up with all those guys, I'm not that good) But I at least want to end up with a boat that can be even with them so if I'm having a good race --or my kid is an awesome sailor, we have a solid platform to compete with. Early TPI boats were a mess. Some of the keels came out brand new further forward than max forward rules of today. Those boats were all over the place. If you happen to find a good boat (that can be saved) then maybe there is a chance you don't have to put battens and bondo on your leading edge to get to max forward. If you DIY the work you can end up with a boat that looks as nice as a 5xxx series boat for much less.
  8. Goal is to have my own (4 kids + me) but I'm a couple years out from that Also at least a year out from having a race-able boat. Anyone have info on Will Grahm? His old boat (#369) has been sitting for a LONG time at a random consignment shop (close your eyes and picture a pawn shop for boats). Spoke to the guy today and he said the boat has only been there for one month. I told him the trailer has two flat tires, the water in the cabin is up to the floor boards and there is mouse shit everywhere inside the boat (all the chutes are mouse nests --but they are vintage 1995 Sobstad chutes anyway). Guy from the boat pawn shop said "yeah OK buddy" to my comment that the boat has been sitting for longer than a month. It's a waterline boat. Stanchions are done and reinforced. Keel and vermiculite is done. Diform (spelling) shrouds but (I believe) Kenyon mast & boom. Boat needs work. Cracks and weeping at leading and trailing edge of keel, there's been water in the sump for a long time, awlgrip (topsides and deck) is all cracked from sun damage... But would be 1000x better of a starting platform than the other disaster boat I'm looking at. I remember Will's boat from when I was a kid. Just don't have his direct contact info to reach out to him/his family. That boat (369) is probably 2-3 years out from being borderline chainsaw too. No way I'd pay what the pawn shop guy quoted me today. Boat still has stupid stuff like sailing gloves hanging from the chute slider basket lines --boat looks like someone packed it up from a Newport Regatta and/or Fleet 50 Thursday night then left it exactly as-is... and it has sat for years. Kind of weird. Would love to talk to Will or his family directly about the boat.
  9. Thanks. Are those numbers for that 1991 boat? I understand. Put 20-25 in and get 15 if I sell. Interesting that you consider anything not North or Quantum to be off-brand. I wear a Doyle hat & belt. The 105 I raced on was out of City Island. I'll buy my sails from Paul. So then a question about resale value: Tim Corbett was/is asking $20k (now looks like 18) for his boat (1948). If he can get 15+ for 1948 then what's the difference between a 48xx boat and a 19xx or even a 10xx (converted) vintage boat? And more importantly, what is the difference in resale value between a 5000 series since they sell for the same amount (5321 wants $15k)? Given the same line items you just used, my numbers look like this: (Free or stupid cheap) Boat $500-$1000, maybe $1500-ish for an excellent condition used Triad trailer $5000 Mast - complete I honestly don't know. $5k is the number I have in my head. I used to know enough people to get stuff like that at cost (or free) but not anymore. $500 Boom - Complete I'll find something decent for cheap 5,500.00 Sails (complete set - off brand, NOT North or Quantum, etc.) Again, no clue. In looking at such disaster boats I hadn't thought about sails. Not even on my radar... But when the time comes, I'll make a phone call down to City Island and put a suit of Doyle sails on my boat. I don't really consider the cost of sails. In my mind they are an operating cost or a cost of doing business. Also, I plan on doing something a little different with sails. Remember that weird phase when they were doing that thing with the 110% or 125% jibs? When I buy my first suit of sails I'll get one (standard, class measured, etc.) set and then a second main and jib. Second main will be cut down to --idk... roughly where the reef points are and jib will be whatever that 100%+ contraption they were using for a while. As I said, a lot of this is for fun/pleasure too. My other half has only been on a boat a few times in her life (and already talking about kids sailing foiling opti's). Our 24 will be used as a fun/teaching boat as well as a Thursday night/weekend regatta boat. No idea what I'll have to pay for all the sails --I know the price will be fair enough that I'll probably keep my mouth shut about what I paid. $5,000+ repair costs (including deck core replacement, fiberglass, epoxy, topside paint, bottom fairing, etc. NOT including any labor cost) I'm starting from zero. In a former life I had everything/anything to work with boats/composites. Then I got a real job, shoved as much as I could into a storage unit and gave away the rest to friends. I'm going to have to buy a lot of stuff. I used to have piles of paint pails, stirrers, spreaders, tape, fillers, thickeners, fast & slow hardener (I guess now there is slow, medium and fast --and multiple decent epoxy resin brands)... The 4:1 or 5:1 (i forget ratio) pumps, etc. I gave away two really vacuum pumps... It's going to cost me a decent chunk of change to get set up properly. $250 carbon fiber spinn pole --Didn't the class recently open up the rules on carbon poles? You can get high quality carbon tubes for stupid cheap on (insert your favorite Chinese website) dot com. Then it's just gluing the jaws in. For $1,000 I'd rather build my own autoclave and make my own tubes. At least that way I could help the class and make the stupid markups on "carbon fiber" obvious. $1,500 all lines replaced (cheap lines) --I'll buy whole spools and make it all. No clue what it'll cost. Some stuff I'll buy at length and other stuff I'll buy whole spools. Going to have to re-read the rules and make sure on diameters then buy a spool/spools of whatever ends up being least common denominator. Usually if you buy it right the line is cheap. The hardware is the expensive part. Who knows. Maybe stuff has changed and my fids don't work anymore. $3,000 everything else (lifeline replacement, every block that needs to be replaced, winches to be rebuilt or replaced, etc) My gut says all the little things will add up more than I think. I don't have anything (fenders, compass, my old vhf's battery is toast, class and signal flags, optional and/or required equipment, porta-potty, etc.) $16,250 That's what my numbers put me at. Plus sails and a shit-ton of man hours. I used $1k for the trailer number. If you take out sails you are at $18,300. Add $1k for a motor (that 1991 boat ad said no motor) and you are at $19,300. Funny... Honestly I did not tweak any of my numbers. I didn't even put 2 & 2 together until I started typing that last sentence. Each of our numbers came in $3k apart --which is the cost of that 1991 boat. And that's really what I'm getting at as the heart of all this. The only difference is my time (which I have). To be completely truthful, I've done all this work before and it sucks. I don't really look forward to it but in the back of my mind I worry about things like in your example, if the boat needs a lot more work (keel sump, interior trashed, deck is a LOT softer than the advert says, etc. then what. My costs go up and I over-paid for a boat. In my mind if I can end up with a competitive (very fast) boat for close to $15k then when I take a bath on it and it sells for $5k-$8k I'm losing a lot less than if I put $30k into a boat and end up selling it for $12k. It's not that I have a hard-on for being miserable in a Tyvek suit, just that when both boats are done, I feel like there are more little things I could do to a total restoration (new style sink area, shelves, V-berth, aft quarters, etc.) than if I was on a budget starting out with a more expensive boat. I've typed long enough.... If you read all that I appreciate it.
  10. Living so close to fleet 50 means the j24 is the least common denominator for a small, easy (and pretty cheap) race boat. Thanks. Not sure yet what I'll do. Have three boats to choose from (all early boats). I started racing J24's about 25 years ago. Took a break for a while and did some 105 stuff but have sailed 24's forever. I'm familiar with the new boats (worked in the business) and I get what you mean about the two schools of thought. I hadn't really considered hull stiffness. Never really thought it was that big of a deal but just like everything else, every little bit matters. For me it's not a competition to find the lowest hull number. I don't really want an old style slider. Would rather find an early new slider boat if possible. Because I worked in the industry the repair work of a disaster boat doesn't really scare me. Been there, done that and know what I'm up against. I'm not that crazy serious about winning either. Been there & done that too. Was a cat 3 for a long time (too long). I want to have fun sailing and have something for my kids to grow up with. Would be nice to know that I have a boat that can point and sail in breeze with the big boys just so I can be competitive but other than that it doesn't really matter. Personally I like the teak toe rails but don't like the old cream/off-white deck pans and interiors. The interiors on the new boats are nice. Not worried about the masts being modified, usually masts are masts. Just that they are either new and stiff or old and tend to fall off up top in breeze. I'm worried about the hull and foils being messed with (sump and keel). I don't want a keel that's been thinned then loaded up with bondo up front to get to max forward. Would also like to do the cabin sole, sump, stringers and stanchion base bracing myself. (or find a boat has has the work done well) Found two other boats to consider as well. One is an old hatch boat that waterline converted and the other is 3700 series so I think 81 or maybe 1982. I'll keep looking. The old hatch converted boat is looking like the best bang for the buck right now. Thanks.
  11. In my bigger picture, unless something happens and Fleet 50 dies out, this will be a boat my kids grow up with (in addition to jr sailing). So in the grander scheme, I know I should not walk away, I should RUN away --but the time spent now will pay dividends in the future. And to be perfectly honest... I learned on hand-me-down boats and it was cool to watch the opti's this weekend. Every once in a while a low 4-digit sail number would go by and I'd wonder if I knew who used to sail that boat. Truthfully my kids will probably be sailing some type of foiling contraption but who knows...
  12. How do I find a super early post-vermiculite boat with new slider that has never been raced (faired, messed with), also with a trailer and new mast --for a reasonable price...?? Carbon footprint: She can drive a model x. I'm fine with 10-12mpg and no insane mode.
  13. A boat is a hole in the water, surrounded by wood/fiberglass into which one pours money --right? Thanks for both replies (have not read bump-grind's reply yet). In terms of what my time is worth, I'm worried about a few things: First, I don't want to buy a boat that someone else messed with. I want to basterdize the boat myself. That's probably my biggest concern. Ideally I want to start from scratch and do it right. Will that cost more and take a lot more time? Of course, but when I'm done I'll have a competitive boat so at least I'll know it is the sailors that win/lose, not the sailboat/sails. (so first concern is hull) Second concern is the mast and standing rigging. I don't want to buy a $5k boat with an old mast. In my mind a $5k boat with an old mast is a $1k boat. And that's where the dilemma starts: any boat with a new mast has been messed with. No one spends money on a new mast without having gone to a speed shop first. Lots of boats hit shit (rocks) and get bottom/keel jobs for the price of a deductible. Masts don't work like that which is why I've been looking for an unmolested, free/disaster boat (with trailer) that I can do myself. Because for the numbers to work, if I need to buy a mast the boat needs to be free. My time: If I charged myself for my time I couldn't afford it. Doesn't matter what I do. Anything from fixing up the house, restoring cars, building BBQ smokers, etc. If I charged myself for my time I couldn't afford it. At least I'm more comfortable vacuum bagging boat stuff than I am welding so if nothing else it'll be less time. I'm willing to put in the time but only for the right boat.
  14. **Disclaimer** You don't know me, I don't know you. I am genuinely asking this community a question. If you have nothing to contribute, please don't. I'm not interested in posts about girls/boobs, sarcasm, rhetoric, etc. I looked at an early TPI boat (j24) that I'd like to fix and race in fleet 50. Hull # has significance and emotional attachment. Outside that a boat is a boat. It needs everything. Everything and anything you could ever possibly imagine --it needs all that and more. Boat also probably needs an intro to a chainsaw but I'm willing to do the work. This is a vermiculite J24 without a mast and a soft deck would be gracious. The deck is f'n scary (missing/non-existent). Hull looks OK. Was raced early then the boat sat. Honestly most worried about water that may have frozen in the sump (weak sump). Everything is trashed. Needs bulkhead, new deck, sump reinforcement, hatch conversion, etc. If I do it I'll probably split the deck and hull (with class permission) and hopefully drop the keel (again class). I'd spit the boat apart and rebuild it. So... Ballpark hours and expense? I have heated space and tools/facility/experience to make this happen. Looking for sanity check on price and maybe man hours for the job. For the record, hull number has sentimental value. Thanks. edit: spelling, formatting
  15. 1215

    Turning it upside down

    There is a very reputable J24 speed shop that used to turn boats over on old car tires. But he always dropped the keels first so it was just the hull. Boats generally don't do well on the hard. Don't try to flip one over with the ballast attached. That's going to lead to bigger (bilge/sump/stringer) problems. Buy a gallon of Dykem, sand and then thin the shit out of your baltaplate and spray 50 times.