bistros

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Everything posted by bistros

  1. bistros

    Kleen Breeze

    Great eyes, Luc. I agree that it is Kleen Breeze on the mooring. I took a screen shot & expanded it to confirm. Sad thing is that it looks like the two new sails are just dropped in the lazyjacks and the rudders are down - as if the boat was placed on the mooring with no preparation for long term storage. Some boatyard stooge has tied it up and it is probably sitting abandoned waiting for the estate to be settled and the title cleared. Could be months to years before it can be cleanly sold. Once a boat is left on a long term orphan mooring, it doesn't take long for the wildlife and vandals to start the process of turning it into a wreck. Homeless boats compost faster on a mooring ball than last night's dinner does in the garden compost heap. C'est vraiment triste. Got to say I really like the two people on the Heavenly Twin cat (Kittiwake). They are certainly sticking to their mission of cruising to the Med on the cheap while young enough to enjoy it.
  2. bistros

    Kleen Breeze

    Proasailor: This thread about Kleen Breeze isn't a battleground about the differences between WTW designs and proven Pacific proa designs. Robin Warde made his choices and built his boat. You seem to be arguing about his design choices and missing the real point - a shunting proa has been built and is in need of a home and someone to bring the boat to completion. He's not here to defend his choices. Every boat built is a collection of compromises and choices, and every owner who builds one gets to pick what is important to them. From what I can derive, Mr. Warde wanted a large cruising boat for his family and his objective was reasonable performance, good accommodation space for four and optimized cost to achieve his objectives. Kleen Breeze (with obvious inspiration from Harryproa designs) met his criteria and since he was writing the cheques and manning the longboard, he built what he wanted. He could have spent four times as much money and bought a condomaran - would you have been happier? I do not doubt that Kleen Breeze could perform as he hoped. I'm also certain that the someone else with different objectives could produce a faster design that was more in accordance to your dogma. Why don't we stop carrying on the same old holy wars about design variants that make 90% of Sailing Anarchy members shake their heads about proas and their enthusiasts?
  3. bistros

    Kleen Breeze

    Putting aside the design discussion for a minute, I find the human tragedy here is monumental. People like Robin Warde who actually build their dreams are rare and precious. It seems almost cruel and disrespectful to tear apart his opus before it ever was played as it was intended. The risk and investment here was significant and real - Mr. Warde gave years of his life, engineering capabilities and family time to Kleen Breeze. It would be a fitting tribute to find someone who could get the boat over the finish line and successfully through trials. I can't imagine the sadness of his wife and family seeing his dream abandoned and almost worthless. Much of the discussion here seems like vicious armchair judgement from non-participants who have strong opinions without respecting the vision and commitment necessary to get the project so close to fruition. Although coldly rational, most of the vitriol expressed here sounds like prejudiced knackers assessing parts value to a dead thoroughbred foal racehorse that died before ever racing. The romantic in me holds hope that Robin Warde's monumental effort does reach the success he envisioned. I can envision Kleen Breeze quietly driving through offshore passages at far higher average speeds than other cruising designs of the same length and investment. You can see the genetic potential in it's historical predecessors. I know it is a Disney Movie of the Week childish notion though. There IS a magical confluence of design, engineering and material science to proas. They are phenomenal performers when kept within the boundaries of this magic - acknowledging that accommodation space, creature comforts and social acceptance will never be part of that formula. Sometimes weird can be better.
  4. bistros

    DC Designs

    I've been lurking, so you aren't alone. I don't have time to sail the boat I have right now, so a canoe is out of the question. What time I have got I've spent teaching my son how to sail. I know most of the Ottawa skiff folks follow this thread as well - The East Coast Canoe folks are long time supporters of the Ottawa Skiff Grand Prix. -- Bill in Ottawa
  5. bistros

    DC Designs

    I for one would be glad to see common sense continue to prevail in a world gone mad. There is no fundamental need for idiotic border security between Canada and the US - it's like setting up a Berlin Wall between your kitchen and dining room. We are basically one family, and the borders create more trouble than they are worth. I was hoping for Steve's answer, but afraid Dick Cheney disease had infected folks. Paranoia they destroy ya. The Kinks had it right. I'm going to try again to get out to Sugar Island in August this year. Made it to Gan last year! Maybe I'll break some laws and sail to Clayton. -- Bill
  6. bistros

    DC Designs

    Cool canoes indeed. Check out the sliding seat on this baby. Is there any problems with Hopeless Security (whoops I mean Homeland) / US Customs sailing across? You are leaving a Canadian departure at Sugar Island to a US destination. I've always wondered about how things were handled around there since the whole river there is a mishmash of boats going like kicked-over anthill. Do you have to phone ahead anywhere? -- Bill
  7. bistros

    DC Designs

    Steven: You have missed the point entirely. You saw one of Doug's Rube Goldberg complexity extravaganzas, and I was trying to get you to see a tiny mechanical part of it. If you look at the sliding mechanical attachment of the battery pack to the "plank", you will see a single block at the outboard end, with a line going from a centerpoint fixed attachment on the boat around the block, and then attaching to the seat pan (battery pack in this toy). If the seat pan slides on rails on top of the plank, this will cause the seat to be pulled progressively outward as the plank is extended normally - by hand and and then with your legs. Completing the picture, add the same line and block on the other side and you have a system that will automatically center the seat as the plank is centered, and move the seat outboard as the plank is moved is either direction. Pretty simple and functional actually. There is no bungee cord necessary, and no tension or elastic loading incurred in seat location at any point, so a lot of the problematic issues talked about earlier are not in play. If you would like a line diagram, I'm sure one could be done. Like most of Doug's bizarre schemes, there is a little part of it that shows promise. I went and got Doug snarky mad at me for posting a link to his "property" for you. I got a pissy PM from him because of this, even though I credited him. -- Bill
  8. bistros

    DC Designs

    Giving credit where credit is due, perhaps you could take a look at Doug Lord's sliding ballast "plank" used on his model boats. Basically, the design causes the ballast (batteries) to move outward on the "plank" as the plank is moved from side to side. When the plank is fully outboard, the battery pack is at the end of the plank. God knows, I'm no Doug Lord fan, but if you rigged the "seat" on your plank to work like this, it would auto locate itself properly. The picture is pretty self explanatory. -- Bill
  9. bistros

    DC Designs

    Bump. Just because this thread (the best on dinghy anarchy) deserves to stay on page one. -- Bill
  10. bistros

    DC Designs

    And I thought you lived in the sunny south! I guess that makes Ottawa an arctic wasteland. You can walk our racecourse now. -- Bill
  11. bistros

    DC Designs

    Almost to be expected, his new boat looks like its going 25kts just sitting in the trailer. My wife and I watched things from afar on Saturday - we were down in Gananoque/Lockport/Ivy Lea being Thousand Island tourists. Wasn't hard to pick out the ICs from a distance, although I couldn't find a boat willing to ferry us out to Sugar Island and back. We didn't take our canoe down, and after seeing all the ridiculous power traffic in the channels there, I didn't think my wife would have approved of us crossing to the island. What a beautiful day you guys had there on Saturday! -- Bill
  12. bistros

    DC Designs

    Great to see all those familiar names. Hope to see you all in October. Heineken HPDO 2009 Great Racing Great Friends Great Beer I've kind of liked how this thread had been kept on topic so I can follow the canoe guys. I understand the need to pimp your regatta, but you've already got a thread going and these "pimp it everywhere" posts have kind of crossed the line to over the top. It's a great regatta. People from my club are coming. Enough already. Let's keep this great thread alive and on topic. -- Bill
  13. bistros

    DC Designs

    Perhaps training wheels? I've been microseconds from failing to unclip SPD pedals while stopped dead and just avoided falling like a chainsaw cut tree. I admire pursuit riders more and more for their ability to stop dead for incredible periods, and wish I had better balance. Crappy break at a crappy time why doesn't shit like this happen during the off season? -- Bill
  14. bistros

    DC Designs

    And a booming voice from above quashed the doubters discussion and gave them a code to live by .... It is so nice to have someone who can tell right from wrong definitively. I just love this thread. -- Bill
  15. bistros

    DC Designs

    Andy: If your bungee/tube tiller extension control thingies work well, please post photos. I've tried and wasn't happy with a SwiftSolo-like adaptation. Heel the boat enough for the top of the leeward extension to catch the water and the extension was behind the boat in a second. I know, the boat isn't supposed to heel, but my Jedi mind trick "That isn't the direction you want to heel!" isn't working in gusts. -- Bill
  16. bistros

    DC Designs

    That boat is going to get MOMA in NYC to send in a SWAT team to steal it so it never gets sailed. One word. Wow. -- Bill
  17. bistros

    DC Designs

    Bump. This thread is too good to let it slip off the first page.
  18. bistros

    DC Designs

    Steve - I wasn't intending to doubt you, I was just trying to get people to think outside the most obvious box. I've been on product development process bug/witch hunts many times and it is surprising how many incident causes are the result of unpredicted combinations of circumstances and timing. With a production process sample of one, you really do not have enough data to figure out the cause.
  19. bistros

    DC Designs

    Maybe he didn't use the same ruler on one set of the measurements. Perhaps the cradle changed. Environmental conditions and humidity may have changed. This is wood we are talking about. This thread has been looking only at one possible result: the IC changed - perhaps the deviation was elsewhere. Perhaps the result is a combination of minor change to the IC and minor changes to to measurement and environment. I am not doubting Steve Clarke, but when hunting for causes of unexpected results, it pays to consider things from many possible perspectives. Everyone is concentrating their focus on the materials & vacuum bagging process. Forensic engineering is one situation where Occam's Razor(1) is best ignored. Trying to find a simple solution to a complex issue doesn't always work. Calibration and verification of measuring systems is the first place to start. 1 - "All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best."
  20. bistros

    DC Designs

    Dan: Very clear and concise explanation. Well done. It's nice that the DC folks soldier on keeping on an interesting topic while the bulk of us swarm Doug Lord out of boredom and frustration. I wish this level and type of discussion happened more frequently. I'm not entirely clear on this point. I would think that sheeting angles are made with respect to the apparent wind, not the centreline or the track. I'm certainly open to accepting your thesis - but I don't think I sheet based on anything but apparent wind. When in doubt, I look at flow over the sail on telltales and adjust, not track or centreline. OFP