Sisu3360

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Everything posted by Sisu3360

  1. “They’re not faster, they just happened to cross the finish line first!”
  2. Sisu3360

    Team NYYC

    Might be for worker safety, removed for racing.
  3. Sisu3360

    No Dumb Questions

    True, and most high performance keelboat racers would say that their sailing is athletic too. But it's a different kind of athleticism than grinding all.race.long. The 12s, IACC, and other keelboats require dedicated grinders, but not half the crew and not grinding all race. A more appropriate expression of athleticism might be to make the crew hike.
  4. Sisu3360

    No Dumb Questions

    True, I'm being somewhat facetious about automation, but I see that debate coming as the human element becomes more of a barrier to raw speed, sort of like the manual vs automatic (among other driver aids) debate in motorsport. I think you're right about overemphasis on grinding being a bad thing, although I think it's interesting that we both agree that we should de-emphasize the most visibly athletic positions on the boat. Sort of speaks to the disconnect between the experience most of us have in sailing and the AC, which I think is at the heart of the foilers vs displacement angst.
  5. Sisu3360

    No Dumb Questions

    That's more of a philosophical debate about what constitutes a "real sailing." Some will argue that canters aren't "real sailboats" because they need a generator to run the hydraulics. The DoG boats in 2010 used generators because there was no rule against them, but in general the Cup organizers since then have felt that using a motor makes it seem less authentic to the fans. Thus we have a platoon of grinders spinning away all race. Pretty soon we're going to have more and debates about automation, until finally it will just be two tacticians on shore sending commands to the machine brains on the boats, which can sail faster than any human. Then we'll decide that the machines can make better decisions than the humans, and Skynet's takeover of sailing will be complete.
  6. Sisu3360

    Team NYYC

    I agree, the team aspect is huge part of my personal enjoyment of sailing, and why I've gravitated toward keelboats and scows instead of small dinghies. There's still a huge team component to these boats (even the grinders), but it's not very visible.
  7. Speaking of droughts (or ducks?), how about NYYC since '83? Between America II '87, Young America '00, S&S '03, and now AM (probably), they have a knack for backing expensive flops, usually involving structural failure.
  8. Sisu3360

    Team NYYC

    Take it to CA
  9. Sisu3360

    Prada Cup

    Isn't the question here what happens if there is a challenge and the defending club refuses to defend? In that case, the challenger would win by forfeit, as confirmed by the MBBC vs NYYC litigation. The immediate past holder doesn't come into play unless they happen to be the CoR.
  10. Sisu3360

    Prada Cup

    Separate out tactics (boat-on-boat interaction) and strategy (picking the fastest way around the course). Strategy-wise maybe 6 (again, it's hard to execute good strategy when you're arbitrarily forced to tack), tactically around 2 or 3, for the simple reason that maneuvers are so costly. Cross, boundary, cross, boundary. Maybe if one side is heavily favored you tack a little early on the unfavored side, but that's about it. Forget tacking to lead your opponent back - unless you have a huge lead you'll just get run over. Foilers will be much better for match racing once they can maneuver faster and more frequently. If they can get to that point I'll shut up about missing the keelboats. It's funny that the big debate in the last few days has been over a really-not-that-close port/starboard, not a millimeter-tight leebow tack. Your point is well taken that it says something when routine ducks, crosses, and loose coverages are treated as big events. But, maybe that will improve as the boats and crews mature - we're watching them learn with every race, and that's a lot of fun.
  11. Sisu3360

    Luna Rossa Challenge. AC 36

    Have I missed it? Is there speculation who will be on the RNZYS commodore's yacht, pen in hand, when and if ETNZ is on match point?
  12. Sisu3360

    Luna Rossa Challenge. AC 36

    I guess turnabout is fair play on that one, given why the NYYC put that rule in place.
  13. Sisu3360

    Luna Rossa Challenge. AC 36

    If you guys win it, you can put all this "back to sailing" talk to bed and make it a fleet race around the Isle of Wight again. No class rules, just run what ya brung.
  14. Sisu3360

    Prada Cup

    Nothing can make you look more like a tactical genius than superior boatspeed.
  15. Sisu3360

    Prada Cup

    Actually, that's kind of my point - it seems like when anyone tries to make a traditional match racing move (close cover, aggressive prestart, etc...) they end up blowing it. I remain open to the possibility that the boats and sailors will get better, but right now it seems like typical match racing doctrine backfires more often than it pays off.
  16. Sisu3360

    Prada Cup

    Bingo. This is certainly a form of sailboat racing that is fun to watch, but the only thing this event has in common with the established discipline of match racing is that there are only two boats on the course at a time. In particular (and I'm sorry to keep harping on this) the boundaries and windward gates really nerf the match racing tactics. I'd be interested to see how the racing would change if they used a shorter version of the 2007 course. Try going back to 5 minute starts, too.
  17. Sisu3360

    Team NYYC

    This is an interesting point. I’m a yank who spent some time in NZ when I was in college. My observation is that Kiwis are intensely passionate about ANY sport their athletes excel in. If New Zealand, had a championship chessboxing (look it up) team, ordinary Kiwis would become experts in the sport overnight. Kiwis stick together and celebrate each other’s achievements (and use sport as the primary outlet of their nationalism, which is MUCH healthier than how nationalism manifests itself here). I LOVE this about NZ, and wish I lived in a society more like that. The rest of the world doesn’t work that way. There’s too much competition for attention and nonsailors aren’t going to learn the sport for the sake of watching it. I will grant you that sometimes us Yanks will pay attention if one of our athletes is REALLY good at a niche sport, like when we all started watching the Tour de France when Lance Armstrong was winning*, but until a homegrown American starts dominating sailing (blood doping optional) I don’t see that happening. The same is true elsewhere. There are many sports objectively more exciting and easier to watch than sailing. I promise you that New Zealand is the only place on the planet where the AC is - or ever will be - mainstream. For the rest of the world interest is minimal outside the host venue.
  18. Sisu3360

    Team NYYC

    I accept that the AC has been more a design competition, aligned with the latest tech, rather than a proper match racing tournament for most of its life, but I agree wholeheartedly. I absolutely did not get into sailing to go fast, and neither did most of my contemporaries. I like sailing for the tactics and strategy more than anything else. If I want to scratch the speed itch, I’ll do something else. In some ways, Perth ruined the AC because the organizers have been chasing the high of public interest ever since. The interest in ‘87 was the result of unique circumstances that will never happen again. Before that there wasn’t much fervor to pique the interest of casual fans.
  19. Sisu3360

    Prada Cup

    I think @sailman's point is that prior editions, before 2013, have been on open water outside the harbor. Also recall that the DoG (yes, I know this clause can be waived by MC) specifically stipulates "all such races shall be on ocean courses, free from headlands."
  20. Sisu3360

    Economics of owning a trailer

    Enterprise rents 3/4 and full ton trucks and allows (even insures) towing. I used them to pick up my Dolphin from North Carolina and I even got a free upgrade to the Ram 3500 diesel (I booked a 3/4 ton). Total cost for a week's rental would be around a grand, but if that's all you'd be using a truck for it's cheaper than buying.
  21. Sisu3360

    Prada Cup

    Are you suggesting that before 2013, it was typical to just have the boats bang opposite corners? Not sure what races you watched. Sure, the boats split tacks but they came together frequently as they worked to the favored side. Boundaries restrict tactical decisions, not the other way around. Also, you’re disparaging the courses that almost every sailor races on. I assume that if the racing was dull we would have quit awhile ago.
  22. Sisu3360

    Prada Cup

    I made a chart for another thread last Spring because I'm a hopeless nerd. 2013 and 2021 had the fewest teams in a non-DOG match since 1967. Between 1983 and 2007 (excluding 1988), no event had fewer than 9 teams, and most of the events remembered for competitiveness (either in the AC itself or the LVC), with the notable exception of 2013, had high numbers of challengers and/or defenders. Also, remember when we had more than one defender? That was dope.
  23. Sisu3360

    Prada Cup

    So I've been reflecting on this debate and I have a theory: those who see sailboat racing as a race are enjoying this event. Those who see sailboat racing as a game are probably still enjoying it but feel that something's been lost from the 2007 and before events. I'm in the latter camp. I'm not blind - it's pretty awesome watching these beasts zip around the course and appreciating the insane technology and skill that makes it happen. But sailing's always felt more like a chess match than a race to me, and I've always been more interested in strategy than boatspeed (probably why I'm mediocre at the sport, but that's besides the point). I especially love team racing and match racing for this reason - it feels more like a game than a race, more akin to football (either type) than F1. So that's what I'm missing in this Cup - the tight coverages, the tacking duels, the intense prestarts and the drama of the lead boat carrying a penalty on the last leg. Stuff that probably turns off casual fans but stuff I like because I want to see all of the aspects of the game I love reflected in the highest level of the sport (I agree with you on short courses, though; they're a godsend when one boat runs away with it). That said, it's hard for me to admit but here's the truth: the America's Cup as a premier match race is more of an exception than the rule. The best match racing in the Cup started in the 12 Metre era, steadily matured as match racing grew as a specialized discipline, and climaxed in the 1-second delta of the very last IACC race. For most of the event's history, it was much more weighted toward design, boatspeed, and "big picture" strategy, and was sailed in boats that didn't allow much aggressive boat-on-boat interaction. So perhaps, paradoxically, we're actually back to a more traditional form of the America's Cup. But man, I'd love to see another cycle or two in match race-optimized monohulls. My first Cup to watch was 2000 (I'm 32, so call me a premature boomer if you want), and I'll always remember that epic battle between Prada and AmericaOne. I remember not always being able to follow what was happening (what's this "proper course" Cayard is screaming about??), but it got me curious enough as a 12 year old to learn.
  24. Sisu3360

    Prada Cup

    Speaking for myself, I don’t like the boundaries because they force the teams to break the first rule of sailing strategy: pick a side and work it. They’re crossing the course on every tack. I’d rather let the tacticians loose to work the whole course between the marks. They got the course length right - I think many of the “watching paint dry” reactions to the old keelboat cups were that the races were so damn long.
  25. Sisu3360

    Prada Cup

    Ok, pick a more comparable sporting event then. My point wasn’t regarding the organizational structure, it was to challenge the assertion that noncompetitive teams shouldn’t bother showing up and we shouldn’t care that they don’t. Minor teams have their role to play. Just because we can make the cost of a campaign as expensive as we want doesn’t mean we should. The 12 Metre class was picked as a way to make the event more affordable in the postwar economy, and it worked. If we were still in J Class-esque boats, I doubt ‘87 would have been as fun with its deep challenger field.