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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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About Brass

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  1. Bouy room (again) mixed fleet.

    Would have been handy if you had sad that in the OP. Bit of a rewrite is in order
  2. Bouy room (again) mixed fleet.

    Yes. I'll note that in your original situation C didn't need to do what they did. C could have kept sailing right at A's transom, Except that, as you say, C must keep clear of A: she has to do something: she can't go to windward, inside A, because if she does that she will fail to give A the mark-room to which A is entitled. So, given she's travelling faster than A, she has to avoid A by going to leeward of A. maintaining her overlap with B. Since C is clear astern she must keep clear of A, Yes so A is an obstruction for C Yes Since C remained overlapped inside B, as the inside boat approaching an obstruction she has the right to pass it on either side, No. rule 19.2( a ) gives the right of way boat the right to choose which side to pass the obstruction on. Between B and C, C is the windward, give-way boat: it's B that has the right to choose. and so B must give C room to go around A If B chooses to go to leeward of A, which she did, way back when B became overlapped on A, she must give C room to pass between B and A while C =is overlapped inside B and while rule 19 applies to B and C. Rule 19 applies to B and C with respect to A, as long as A is a right of way boat to both, that is, as long as both boats are clear astern of A. The instant .B becomes overlapped to leeward of A, B gains right of way (rule 11), A ceases to have right of way over B, and rule 19, as between B and C ceases to apply. (this becomes, if necessary, in addition to the mark-room C gets as inside boat). OP said that, as a result of manoeuvering to keep clear of A, which she was required to do, C lost her overlap, that is, became clear astern of B, and, AIUI, that this was before B reached the zone. C, clear astern of B when B reached the zone is required to give B mark-room. IF, on the other hand, C had managed to get around A while still remaining overlapped on B, then C would have been overlapped inside B when the first of them reached the zone and B would have been required to give C mark-room..
  3. J70, cheating and pros

    I'm with JimC. Displays of personal moral outrage, asserting that my sportsmanship is bigger than your sportsmanship, don't really help the sport. JImC is not being an aoplogist. He is just pointing out that what is 'well known' about what the owners knew and had been told is very likely to be embarrassingly insufficient for a protest committee to be comfortably satisfied in making a rule 69 decision or a WS disciplinary panel in making a WS Regulations disciplinary finding, particularly in the face of a very likely formal restraint of trade action by the boat yard corporation.
  4. Dragging a line

    There are two cases that deal with this issue. Case 77 Definitions, Keep Clear Rule 12, On the Same Tack, Not Overlapped Rule 14, Avoiding Contact Rule 31, Touching a Mark Contact with a mark by a boat's equipment constitutes touching it. A boat obligated to keep clear does not break a rule when touched by a right-of-way boat's equipment that moves unexpectedly out of normal position. Case 91 Definitions, Clear Astern and Clear Ahead; Overlap Definitions, Keep Clear Rule 12, On the Same Tack, Not Overlapped Rule 14, Avoiding Contact A boat required to keep clear must keep clear of another boat's equipment out of its normal position when the equipment has been out of its normal position long enough for the equipment to have been seen and avoided. I would be happy to presume that a spinnaker halyard dragging in the water was not reasonably able to be seen, and that Case 91 is not determinative. MR Call A4 is also helpful A spinnaker in the process of being set or taken down is not ‘equipment in normal position’ in the context of the definition where this term is used. So, by extension, a spinnaker halyard, outside the boat, in the process of the spinnaker being taken in is not in its normal position. Note that 'normal position' is only relevant through the definition of Clear Ahead, Clear Astern, Overlap This means that the 'lline abeam' for determining whethere a boat is clear astern or overlapped (for purposes of rules 12 or 11) does NOT go from the end of the halyard, but from the aftermost point of the hull or equipment that IS in its normal position. This means that, if boats are on the same tack,the right of way rule in play is rule 12, boat clear astern must keep clear. The test in Case 77 is useful [A boat clear astern} B ... keeps clear of [a boat clear ahead] A, ... [if] ... nothing B did or failed to do required A "to take avoiding action" (see the definition Keep Clear) So: For a port/starboard cross, rule 10 applies. If P was unable to see the trailing line and nothing P did or failed to do required S "to take avoiding action",then P has not broken rule 10. Maybe, just maybe, if P was crossing close astern and part of the trailing line was readily visible, it might be different. For a boat on the same tack coming from clear astern, where she will first engage the trailing end of the halyard: whether she gets to windward or leeward of the trailing line won't engage rule 11 and rule 12 will apply; If B was unable to see the trailing line and nothing B did or failed to do required A "to take avoiding action",then B has not broken rule 12. In either P/S or CAHD/CASTN, if it was not reasonably possible for the give way boat to see the trailing line, then it was not reasonably possible for to avoid contact and she has not broken rule 14. Presumably there will be no damage or injury so if a protest committee concluded that it was reasonably possible for the right of way boat to have avoided contact by not trailing the line in the first place, then the right of way boat shall be exonerated for breaking rule 14 in accordance with ruel 14( b ).
  5. Rules??

    Add, for completeness After @20.5, Y would have reasonable apprehension of collision (Case 50), and changed course; B did not keep clear of Y: B broke rule 11 and 14. Apparently neither boat protested the incident to the umpires at the time. A later jury protest decided that B broke rule 14 and penalised her.
  6. Rules??

    Within the words of the definition of room, it's quite easy: the give way boat keeps clear, acting promptly, but only by an unseamanlike act. I can't see any unseamanlike action by Audi up to the time of the whistle: maybe the umps did. I get the impression that thee European umps are looking for the right of way boat to give 'ample room and opportunity', which ain't in the rules.
  7. Rules??

    Can you go into this a bit more, Brass? I didn't see any avoiding action by Blue, can I just assume the umpire probably had a better view than me? Just repeating what's on Jos Spykerman's Facebook posts. Very 'European ' decision on failing to give room to keep clear without contact, but agree Umps prolly had a better view. But note heavy conditions and high speeds. Judging by the speed the ump boat came out of the gap, I'd guess the umps had the pants scared off them, and that was enough to convince them there wasn't room.
  8. Rules??

    Rule 14 infringement by the Audi-boat. Category C = -1 point in knock-out stage.
  9. Rules??

    At the beginning, Bavaria (Yellow) and Audi (Blue) are both on port tack, pretty much dead square, with foredeck hands at the mast, preparatory to either gybing or dousing the spinnaker, getting towards the leeward mark (visible @60). @11 Y is give way, clear astern (rule 12). @12 Overlap, Y is right of way, overlapped to leeward (rule 11), must give B room to keep clear (rule 15)). [@16 Y’s pole comes off the mast. No effect on obligations or entitlements of boats.] [@18 Umpires display Yellow Flag: Penalise Yellow: that would be rule 15. No effect on immediate obligations or entitlements of boats] @20.5 B begins to round down, onto a collision course with Y. B is by the lee, with boom and mainsail out on her starboard side, still on Port tack (Definitions: Leeward and Windward, Tack, Starboard or Port), same as Y, Y still to leeward of B, B still required to keep clear of Y (rule 11). @21 Y begins to round up, possibly to avoid B, or possibly uncontrolled. @22 Y’s boom goes in the water, slows her round up, B continues to round down. @23, B’s boom still out on her starboard side, B still on port tack. @23.5 B’s boom starts to fall across the boat into a gybe. @24, Gybe complete, B is right of way, starboard tack, must give Y room to keep clear (rule 15). Between @23.5 and @24.5, there is contact.
  10. Mast abeam!

    Yup, removed in the 1995 rewrite, where the whole concept of 'hailing to stop a luff' went, and was replaced by rule 16.
  11. Rule 52 / PHRF

    The Class Rules (which include, for a boat racing under a handicap or rating system the rules of that system) (Definitions: Rule), can switch off rule 52. For example, IRC rule15 MANUAL POWER 15.1 RRS 52, Manual Power, shall not apply. This Rule may be amended by Notice of Race. 15.2 (a) The use of stored power for the hoisting of mainsails, or the reefing or furling of sails need not be declared. (b) Boats using stored power solely for the adjustment or operation of backstays shall declare this to the Rating Authority. (c) Boats using stored power for the adjustment or operation of running rigging other than as noted in Rules 15.2(a) & (b) shall declare this to the Rating Authority So, a smart PHRF rule set, if the PHRF intends to penalise, or selectively restrict power winches, will start by switching off rule 52 and stating that rules are intended to apply. If the handicap rules do that, it is unnecessary to put a switch off in the SI.
  12. I think I might be being dim here. Uncle Al?