Brass

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136 F'n Saint

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About Brass

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  1. Brass

    Room to Tack question

    Rule 20 is a rule of Part 2. The preamble to Part 2 states The rules of Part 2 apply between boats that are sailing in or near the racing area and intend to race, are racing, or have been racing
  2. Brass

    Room to Tack question

    Case 35 Rule 20.2(c), Room to Tack at an Obstruction: Responding When a boat is hailed for room to tack at an obstruction and replies “You tack,” and the hailing boat is then able to tack and avoid the hailed boat in a seamanlike way, the hailed boat has complied with rule 20.2(c). Case 101 Rule 20.2(c), Room to Tack at an Obstruction: Responding When a boat with right of way is required to give another boat room for a manoeuvre, right of way does not transfer to the boat entitled to room. When, in reply to her call for room to tack when approaching an obstruction, a boat is hailed “You tack”, and when she does so and is then able to tack again to keep clear in a seamanlike way, the other boat has given the room required.
  3. Brass

    armchair Protest Com.

    Damn irony font not working again. Didn't think it was your usual form. Problem of incomplete records, and had crossed my mind, together with possibility of not all offending boats being protested. My view remains that the protest committee absolutely must disqualify all validly protested boats that did not sail the course. Failure to do that, if appealed would be sure to be overturned. Having done that, any redress contemplated should place boats given redress after boats that sailed the course properly.
  4. Brass

    armchair Protest Com.

    You're kidding? 'individual "truth"'? This is a protest committee, not a metaphysical debating society. The job of a protest committee is to decide protests according to the rules, not make up some new rules of its own. There is one rule, rule 28 and it's authoritatively interpreted by Case 129. Validly protested boats that did not sail the course should be disqualified. If it was a local practice to sound a horn for each boat finishing, then the race committee might have misled some competitors. Even so, it might well have been doubtful that boats, in the absence of the sound signal would have recognised and corrected their error. Good fences make good neighbours. The fairest thing is to apply the rules, particualrly once it comes to a protest committee. That's as nice as it gets. How would we think the boats that had their valid protest dismissed , knowing that an Appeal Committee would belt that decision out over left field are feeling? I don't think that's a fair outcome. Some boats sailed the course in compliance with the rules. They deserve to be placed ahead of boats that broke the rules. If it was accepted that boats that did not comply with rule 28 were misled into doing so by an improper action of the race committee, they could be scored, in their finishiing sequence, in places behind the last boat that sailed the correct course.
  5. Brass

    armchair Protest Com.

    No. Theres a clear rule and a clear Case 129. Dont mess with it. Just finsh between the damn mark an the S flag.
  6. Brass

    Rules question

    Nor to me. Don't do it deliberately unless you have no other choice. I don't really know what you mean by 'mark of the course', but I think Case 129 tells us exactly the opposite of what you are saying: After the race committee shortens the course, the windward mark is no longer a rounding mark. It becomes a finishing mark Agree. Read Case 129 and Case 82
  7. Brass

    Rules question

    Sounds like a very complicated solution. You have two rounding marks, about 1/3 and 2/3 way round the course. Why not just shorten at one of the existing rounding marks?
  8. Brass

    Rules question

    When positioning a committee boat at a rounding mark to shorten course the race committee should keep rule 28 in mind. Case 129 tells us that "Rule 32.2(a) permits the race committee to position the vessel displaying flag S at either end of the finishing line" but that to position the race committee vessel on the side opposite the side on which boats would have been required to leave it if the course had not been shortened is poor race management. Doug explained this with his little diagrams. Rule 32 is supposed to be 'fool-proof' so that a boat sailing the [unshortened] course will properly finish at the shorten course finishing line even if she is not aware of the shorten course signal. For completeness, Case 82 deals with the situation where you can't tell which 'side' of the rounding mark the race committee vessel is on.
  9. Brass

    Rules question

    New mark needs to be a rounding mark. So if it's a W-L course, there'd better be a direction change as well as a length change.
  10. Brass

    Falsification of Race Data

    We can all read the rule. In the OP scenario: In what way did the boat not start in accordance with the definition? A boat starts when, her hull having been entirely on the pre-start side of the starting line at or after her starting signal, and having complied with rule 30.1 if it applies, any part of her hull crosses the starting line from the pre-start side of the course side. In what way did the boat not sail the course in accordance with the definition? A boat sails the course provided that a string representing her track from the time she begins to approach the starting line from its prestart side to start until she finishes, when drawn taut, passes each mark of the course for the race on the required side and in the correct order, touches each mark designated in the sailing instructions to be a rounding mark, and passes between the marks of a gate from the direction of the course from the previous mark. In what way did the boat not finish in accordance with the definition A boat finishes when, after starting, any part of her hull crosses the finishing line from the course side. However, she has not finished if after crossing the finishing line she takes a penalty under rule 44.2, corrects an error in sailing the course made at the line, or; continues to sail the course.
  11. Brass

    Falsification of Race Data

    How do you think a boat might break rule 28?
  12. Brass

    Falsification of Race Data

    No you can't do that. You can't morph a request for redress into a protest. A boat shall not be penalised without a protest hearing (rule 63.1). The SI will doubtless say something like 'Boats shall record their finishing times and report them to the race committee'. If you get evidence of a window, from boat in front and boat behind, and the reported time is outside that window, then the reported time is not the boat's finishing time and the boat has failed to comply with the SI. That conclusion is enough to disqualify the boat. You can certainly protest for rule 2, but you will need at least something more, such as evidence of intention that negatives the 'honest mistake guv' defence.
  13. Brass

    they both suck?

    I still can't understand why you disagree that rule 17 and the right of way and room rules are independent of each other. In overlap circumstances where rule 17 applies: A boat can break rule 17 without there being a breach of a right of way rule or rule 15 or 16. A boat can fail to keep clear or give room to keep clear without there being a breach of rule 17. A breach of rule 17 does not compel the windward boat to break rule 11 and does not give rise to exoneration for the windward boat. Certainly the same set of facts may support conclusions of breach or rule 17 and breach of the right of way rules or rule 15 or 16, but the conclusions are separate and independent.
  14. Brass

    they both suck?

    I'll say it again: Right of way and room rules are independent of rule 17. We don't need to know anything about rule 17 to decide the rule 11/16/14 incident shown.
  15. Brass

    they both suck?

    Up until 2008 rule 17.2 obliged a windward boat not to sail below her proper course. That rule was deleted in 2009. More important, rules 11 and 17 operate independently. A leeward boat sailing above her proper course is no excuse for a windward boat not keeping clear.