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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

      After fifteen years of volunteer moderation at SA, I will no longer be part of the moderation team. The decision to step aside is mine, and has been some time in the works but we did not wish to announce it in advance for a number of reasons. It's been fun, but I need my time back for other purposes now. The Underdawg admin account will not be monitored until further notice, as I will be relinquishing control of it along with my administrative privileges. Zapata will continue on as a moderator, and any concerns or issues can be directed to that account or to the Editor until further notice. Anyone interested in helping moderate the forums should reach out to Scot by sending a PM to the Editor account. Please note that I am not leaving the community, I am merely stepping aside from Admin responsibilities and privileges on the site.

Brass

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  1. You've slipped a cog here. Rule 17 is contained in Section B of Part 2 When Boats Meet. Preamble to Part 2 states The rules of Part 2 apply between boats that are sailing in or near the racing area and intend to race, are racing, or have been racing. However, a boat not racing shall not be penalized for breaking one of these rules, except rule 14 when the incident resulted in injury or serious damage, or rule 24.1 But because proper course is not defined until the starting signal, a boat cannot sail above her proper course, and thus cannot break rule 17 before the starting signal.
  2. Did you read the rest of that case: "Question 2 What should the call be if due to shifty winds and/or rough seas it is not clear whether the boats are over-standing the mark? Answer 2 Penalize both. It is not yet clear that Y's only proper course is on the other tack. Y breaks rule 17 when she sails above her proper course (close-hauled) without promptly sailing astern of B. If B could have responded to the luff and kept clear, but either did not respond or did not respond enough, she breaks rule 11." That says quite clearly that it is not enough on a beat that the other tack is faster, it needs to be the only way to the mark. It is not even enough that you think you are on a layline. It needs to be clear that you are over-standing the mark thus well above layline. When you tack normally, you don't sail above close hauled for a longer time, you just quite quickly turn pass the wind. In my opinion Answer 2 is what might be understood as a 'genuine call': that is a call issued to provide consistent interpretations for umpires on the water. For a protest committee, taking evidence in detail from all parties, with time to consider that evidence in detail, what is required is for the protest committee to conclude whether or not the boat's proper course was to tack. The protest committee is not required to consider whether it is 'clear' or not, merely to reach a conclusion based on the evidence and argument available in the hearing.
  3. No. You're going to have to bring evidence and argument to persuade the protest committee that, in view of the existing conditions including the wind strength and direction, the pattern of gusts and lulls in the wind, the waves, the current, and the physical characteristics of the boat’s hull and equipment, including the sails she is using, tacking was the course that you needed to sail to finish as soon as possible (Case 134)
  4. I based my comment on 2009-13 MR Call D7. I realise this is a Call, and that rule 17 has now been deleted for MR, but it was an Ump call, and I think it's persuasive. I am mindful of Case 15, but I don't think there is inconsistency. Case 15 says "... Provided B keeps clear of A and gives A mark-room if A luffs (even if A luffs as high as head to wind) ..." For boats tacking from port onto starboard it runs as follows. Y's proper course is to tack. Y is right of way boat and B is required to keep clear (rule 11) regardless of rule 17. If Y can luff B so that B goes past head to wind without Y going past head to wind first (and thus breaking rule 13), then, up to that point Y breaks no rule. If Y passes head to wind after B passes head to wind, then B is required to keep clear of Y (rule 13 last sentence) while both are above close hauled. Both boats are now on the same tack (starboard), some time later, one of them will reach a close hauled course and a breach of rule 13 or then 11 (or in the situation illustrated in the call, 18 may occur, but that is not related to the original proper course/rule 17 issue. In the case of boats tacking from starboard onto port, L will need to remain on starboard tack, or after passing head to wind keep clear of W after she has forced W past head to wind, but, with superior boat handling, it's doable.
  5. If your proper course is to tack due to wind shift etc., it doesn't mean your proper course is to luff above close hauled in a situation you can't tack. Otherwise you could always claim that proper course was to tack and luff as much as you liked despite 17. Not quite sure what you envisage. Agree that if L cannot tack without breaking a rule, then tacking is not her proper course (for example, leeward attempting to tack from starboard onto port).
  6. Does rule 17 apply? Yes: a boat clear astern becomes overlapped within two of her hull lengths to leeward of a boat on the same tack (rule 17). Does the leeward boat have a proper course? Yes: proper course exists after the starting signal (Definition: Proper course) Is luffing well above close hauled the proper course for the leeward boat? it depends. If the leeward boat's proper course is to tack, say because the opposite tack is the favoured tack to the mark, or If the leeward boat's proper course is to pinch high, say to shoot the pin , then luffing all the way up to head to wind is her proper course and she does not break rule 17 by doing so. OTOH, if the leeward boat's proper course is to sail close hauled on the present tack, then if she sails above close hauled, she breaks rule 17.
  7. Rule 17 most certainly does "apply" to boats before the starting signal, it's just that there is no "proper course" See Case 13 below, specific words highlighted.
  8. And rule 26, Table, last Row: Starting signal consists of a Visual Signal Class Flag Removed and One Sound Signal. Notwithstanding the qualification in rule 26 stem that time shall be taken from the visual signal, the Starting Signal is the combination of flag fall and sound signal (gun).
  9. Good discussion on taking turns here http://www.sailingworld.com/how-to/faster-penalty-turns
  10. But is IS the job of the race committee and organizing authority to maintain credibility and goodwill with the port authorities and coastguard and local commercial seafarers, so that we don't get regulated to death. Bear in mind that running a race concentrates numerous sailboats in a smaller than usual area, which increases risk and difficulty for port traffic and rescue.
  11. Brass - you are well known for precise use of the rules (RSS), but you are being sloppy here. A tug/tow is not automatically RIAM. If they want to claim RIAM they should be flying the appropriate day shapes (or lights). Rule 27 a RAIM vessel Shall exhibit. And I know that you know what "shall" means. There is precedent stating that "Under most circumstances, vessels engaged in towing do not have any privileges over ordinary power-driven vessels" Now, putting aside the pedantic mode . . . . most of us to try to stay out of the way of tug/tows whether they are fly the day shapes or not. And when in busy commercial waters racers would be advised to have a watch on vhf 16 & 13. I guess the OP does not know whether the tug was flying day shapes or not? But this tug captain also seemed to be having a bad day. Most of them know to try 16 if they want to communicate with pleasure vessels. And going outside the channel makes him less predictable to other vessels, which does not effect the rules, but does place an increased seamanship burden on all involved vessels (including him). Thanks guys, I stand corrected. Learning new stuff and 'more correct' stuff is what we come here for.
  12. Why? If the tug and barge are not constrained by their draft why should they stay in the channel? How would being in or out of the channel affect other vessels obligations under IRPCAS? (IRPCAS apply: RRS Part 2 Preamble second paragraph). But a tug towing/pushing a barge is a vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre, and IRPCAS Rule 18 ( b ) (ii) requires a sailing vessel to keep out of her way. It's certainly good practice for a race committee in areas of heavy commercial traffic to monitor channel 13 or the relevant local port operations channel, and possibly pass on information about traffic to boats competing. A race committee, unless so provided by the Sailing Instructions has no authority to 'instruct' boats competing, either forcefully or otherwise.
  13. CASE 68 ... A boat that may have broken a rule and that continues to race retains her rights under the racing rules, including her rights under the rules of Part 2 and her rights to protest and appeal, even if she is later disqualified.