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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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About ianlf

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    New Zealand

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  1. F-22 Update

    Here is another F-22F rendering, the sails starting to take the correct format now. Also, a photo of the latest set of F-32SR foils as shipped a few weeks ago is below, which are the same foils that will be used on the F-22. These are the Mk II foils which have the carbon uni on the compression side packed in a special way to counter interlaminar shear, as per our break testing: http://www.f-boat.com/pages/News5/FoilTest.html All foils are now proof tested before shipping, but while stronger (as strong as they can be) they are still not intended to fully fly the F-32SR, which would require a much larger section foil. It can be done, but foil should be retracted to reduce loading, otherwise a risk of breakage remains However, they are more than large enough to fully fly an F-22, with a good safety margin, and hence the development of the F-22F. And in reply to: he sucks at production. He is like the sign, free beer tomorrow. I don't have the energy to go through the posts or his website, but it's always about speeding production. He's on #15 in 5+ years. Really? Really? Talk about beating a dead horse. Now about to start on F-22 #17, while I also started on F-27 #17 in 1987, and in that year wrote the following “Meanwhile Back At The Factory” which says it all and is still as relevant now as it was then: http://www.f-boat.com/pdf/33-34Newsletter.pdf We had around 20 staff at that time, (only 10 here in NZ, all on a shoestring), so we are far more efficient here. Around that time a competitor claimed in Multihulls Magazine that we were "slow builders of slow boats". A couple of years later we had swamped him with 2 boats every week, and his boats were looking very slow. Just sayn. Unlike then we will not be at any Boat Shows this year - was trying to make Annapolis, but have just run out of time. We have far more orders now that we did back in 1987 (about 4 times as many), so the expense of a boat show is hard to justify. There are now 4 production F-22s in the USA, 5 by years end, with many more heading that way next year. This will be my last post here on this subject, as informative posts seem to bring out the haters, and there are much better things to do than to read their negative posts. Pity really, as this forum can be a good place to inform on, or discuss new things, and get feedback, but there are those whose only purpose is to knock and demean. If interested in hearing the latest on the foiling F-22 then send me your email address offline, or watch my web site as a design page on the F-22F will be available soon. Ian Farrier Farrier Marine (NZ) Ltd Farrier Marine, Inc
  2. F-22 Update

    Finding ways to make roomy cruising designs fast has always been a part of the picture. Even the original F-27 had curved lifting foils 30 years ago: The curved foils on F-27 #1 can be seen just behind the forward beams. However they were discarded back then as being too expensive, and they were probably too big of a leap at that time. The F-27 itself was different enough and something as radical as lifting foils could have been too much of a distraction. Thus they were only in use for a short time, but were used in one heavy air race, with large 4’ to 6’ seas, which are not the best conditions for foiling multihulls. However it went well and won the race. But now that F-22 production is starting to smooth out and speed up, and we already have the foils, it may be time to revisit. More soon
  3. Trailer Winch F27

    It is not the sun but how the strap can distort when raising mast, which means it can tear easily. The normal bow roller used to raise mast has a concave roller, which forms the strap into a U shape, which can then tear on the sides of the roller frame. I used one about 5 times on the original F-27, and then it suddenly broke by tearing. Have thus always removed such straps since and replaced by line. Would be okay if bow roller was same width as strap and a parallel cylinder, but these do not work well as bow rollers for anchoring. So best to avoid straps when also being used to raise mast. Ian Farrier
  4. Just a mock up at this stage to see how it looked. Final load distribution will use two or three straps to spread the load more, and that should be plenty for this type of test. Ian Farrier Farrier Marine Designs that work
  5. Not quite as impressive as the wing test, but we are almost ready to test break a foil: Jig and foil case still need some further reinforcement, and then just the tensioning system to fit, along with a digital load scale. However, I have to be at the Philippines factory next week, so the actual breakage will take place the week after. Ian Farrier Farrier Marine Designs that work
  6. A post re your claims is now under the relevant Carbon Mast Topic at: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=172766&p=5271639 Ian Farrier Farrier Marine Designs that work
  7. Carbon Masts

    Re Claims: Your quote to me by email on Dec 14, 2014 for supplying an Etamax mast for the F-22, in summary and converted to US$ (for a fair comparison), at that time was: Cost of bare 200 medium mast would be US$531 + GST per linear metre & an F-22R mast thus = US$5726 A fittings kit (Forestay lug, all sheave boxes, gooseneck, diamond stay fittings and spreaders but no stays or halyards) would be US$3984. Assemble the fittings to the mast, add diamond stays, and paint it would be US$3403 Making a total of US$13113. Include freight to NZ and net cost to my customers (zero margin) to put such a mast in the container with the boat would have been well over US$14000. The 200 section F-22 carbon mast fitted out to an equivalent degree, but also including all 4 halyards, PLUS halyard rope clutches mounted on the carbon foot (uncluttered deck), PLUS the gooseneck and stainless steel mainsail furling system, PLUS the matching molded carbon deck step. is US$13,438. So therefore my buying price from you would have been MORE than my selling price to F-22 owners, and for a less well equipped mast. As stated, I choose whatever offers best value to my owners, and I cannot recommend your masts until you get your pricing straightened out. Current exchange rates would improve your prices in US dollars, but still not nearlly enough My prices and specs are not hidden away, and are publicly available on the internet so a real comparison can be made - are yours? Ian Farrier Farrier Marine Designs that work
  8. Carbon Masts

    It can be six of one, or half dozen of the other, with many aspects to take into consideration. Torbjorn (previously with Marstrom) has designed many of the masts that have been used on F-boats over the past 15 years, and has now done the F-45R mast. I started out with two sets of spreaders on the F-45R, and while to and froing, we changed to one long set with a large mast section. But the problem was no room for the jib, which would have then had to sheet on the cabin front - very awkward. Owner definitely wanted more overlap with jib sheeting on cabin roof, so we eliminated the spreader, and the jib then fitted fine. The only restriction is now on the screecher leach, but not by much. Ian Farrier Farrier Marine Designs that work.
  9. Carbon Masts

    Not that I'm aware of, there being many practical issues on larger boats. The F-45R was also never intended to be a full foiling boat, and the optional curved foils are only there to increase vertical and windward lift. The rudder T foils shown in the profile drawing are an owner driven addition and are being built by Waterrat. I have reservations, but Kim is a clever and innovative sailer, so it will be interesting to see how they go. I had put curved foils aside in 1985, but was only convinced to try them again by Kim demonstrating the potential performance possible with the straight foils on his F-31 Cheekee Monkee. Should the curved foils and T foils work well, then we will have the option of adding full lifting foils using the existing foil cases later, but right now that is an expensive step too far. Moderate curved foils are a marketable item as they will improve performance plus also increase room inside, without huge additional cost. Full lifting foils are much more difficult and expensive, with additional risks, so would be a hard sell. Ian Farrier Farrier Marine Designs that work.
  10. F-22 Update

    Thanks for the comments Keith, and pleased to hear you are enjoying your Sprint. And for those interested in F-22 progress, the factory website was updated last week http://www.f-boat.com/pages/News5/FM-Factory2016.html Ian Farrier Farrier Marine Designs That work
  11. Carbon Masts

    My first ever tri back in 1969 had an old Piver style plank mast with triple spreaders initially, but it came down in a southerly buster. Replaced it with a spreaderless mast and loved it - never had a problem. However such a mast was not possible with my early folding boats as the fixed mast as used then would have fallen down when folded, so I went with conventional fixed inner stays to the center hull and one set of spreaders - the Trailertri was radical enough without experimenting with the rig as well. One can also have trouble with overlapping head sails. However, now going with a spreaderless mast (no shear web) on Kim Alfred's new F-45R, and while it was a bit of a juggling match with getting headsails to work, it is all looking very good now. http://www.f-boat.com/pages/News5/F-45andF-45RUpdate.html Ian Farrier Farrier Marine Designs that work
  12. Carbon Masts

    Ian Farrier, on 21 Mar 2016 - 09:02 AM, said: Yerp - I see boeing is doing oval wings on their next plane. Funny, have never seen a reefable mainsail being run up a plane's wing before takeoff, nor have I ever seen the cabin crew trying to fly a spinnaker from the wing tip once under way. We could of course always use a full wing on a sail boat, whereupon it would be a true wing shape, but that is entering another whole new world of impracticality and marketing disaster. Ian Farrier Farrier Marine Designs that work
  13. Carbon Masts

    All these carbon mast posts are completely obscuring the original topic of 'F32 structure failure in Mooloolaba' so time to move it to a more relevant heading. Thus in reply to: Nelson, Can't help with the other manufacturers specs and prices, but Alex and the C Tech guys are pretty easy to get on with, so drop them a line. Kiwi dollar is pretty low, which will help. Freight will be a couple of grand, so check out Hall, Forte and Ted van Deusen in the USA as well. Masts from all of the above have been used on f-boats over the years, but there are some things to be careful of. For info contact me direct. Beefing up the 200 series mast, or going to the next size up (300 series) is no problem for the more powerful boat. There are also some other options, which reduce the weight considerably. If the 60 kg mast Goldfinger mentioned had been built the same way as the proposed F22R mast, it would have weighed 77 kgs. The 300 section Southern Spars oval mast as used on the F-33R actually weighs 62kg. The alloy wing mast weighs 75kg. What do we disagree on? 3:1 wing masts are more efficient than 2.5:1 wings which are more efficient than 1.8:1 ovals. And that this is why most racing multis use wing masts Have you still not noticed that racing multihulls do not sell well? I am designing and marketing racer/cruisers that offer room, good value for money, and a resale value. A plank wing mast just does not fit in that picture. What does the oval mast weigh? If it has 5mm walls (difficult to scale from the photo) and no tapering of laminate or section, it should weigh 47.5 kgs vs the untapered 200M at 37 kgs. It actually weighs 35kg with only one diamond, plus masthead is strong enough to fly a masthead spinnaker without any extra side stays. Very practical and user friendly. Ian Farrier Farrier Marine Designs that work
  14. Agreed, but I it seems those with no orders or boats to build can do nothing else but criticize others who do. However, sometimes their claims are so wrong that one has to answer, and now I can see even more false claims being made. Ian Farrier Farrier Marine Designs that work
  15. Jeepers Rob, that's quite a spiel. I have known you for a long time, but we will always disagree on some things. I've also seen many of your numerous debates on Proas etc., all of which seem endless and a very unproductive use of time. So let's just leave it at we disagree on masts, their shapes, and shear webs. I made my decision on which masts to use for the F-22 based on what I considered would work best for customers, and what represented the best value, with every aspect taken into consideration. I would now rather concentrate on developing, building and selling practical boats, than an endless public argument about masts. I'm sure there are F-boat home builders who could be interested in an Etamax mast, and it could be a good option for many. If it meets the plan specifications then it is their choice, and up to them. Ian Farrier Farrier Marine, Designs that work PS : I now prefer an oval carbon mast as it is a structurally superior shape - it also measures 200 x 113 by the way, not 145 x 95. A narrower wing mast may be a little faster, but a plank like mast is not a good structural shape and will end up heavier, as do narrow aluminum wing masts. Not the best for a general purpose trailerable where the mast can be handled frequently. I try to design practical roomy boats that work, that are easy to rig, and am not interested in offering absolute performance at any cost, as such boats just don't sell.