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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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-12 Douchebag

About SimonN

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  • Birthday 06/05/1959

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  1. Wanted Missing VOR Skipper

    I wasn't going to post again, but I wanted to address this because it shows the problem with the internet. I read you post, thought it was probably the best thing you had posted for a long time even if we didn't agree on all issues. I did not realise I needed to respond in any way, because we had both presented our views and it was there for all to see. Some might think otherwise, but I see no point in tit for tat arguments when the views expressed speak for themselves. I certainly wan't ignoring your comment. Just shows how easy it is to interpret what somebody does on a forum incorrectly. I heard there was more than one complaint, but have no other details. My final comment on this remains about how dismissive some people are about this. A complaint or maybe more than 1 was made. A highly respected independent assessor investigated the incident and he recommended that Witty should be charged with a rule 69 offence. If this was nothing, why has it made it passed the first step? Others clearly think there is a case to answer and that there is something problematic. Let's see where it goes from here.
  2. Wanted Missing VOR Skipper

    Despite making it clear in my profile that I now sail an A Class cat, which should clearly identify me, some people have been giving Simon Nearn, a well known 18' skiff sailor, grief for my views. While I know Simon Nearn and have the pleasure of sailing against him in a number of classes, I want to make it clear that I am not him and that my views do not represent his views in any way (I don't actually know his view on this subject). I find this particularly annoying because I make no attempt to hide my identity by providing my full history, which is different to Simon Nearn's, yet some seem to get so hot under the collar that they don't bother reading and jump to conclusions. This is a shame because I have now felt obliged to change my profile details and remove mention of past sailing which I am proud of. The irony is that I want people to know who I am yet by now removing detail from my profile, it makes it less likely people will be able to identify me.
  3. Wanted Missing VOR Skipper

    Can you explain why that is in any way sexual harassment? There is absolutely nothing wrong with what they were saying. They were making a joke about something that everybody would know was not going to happen. If Charles had done a Trump and said he was going down to his bunk to grab her .......... that would have been a different matter. But instead, they were having a laugh about something that clearly was not going to happen. It could only be offensive if anybody would believe that it was going to happen and that Carolijn wanted it to happen. Trust me on this. It was not going to happen and Carolijn is not interested in Charles!
  4. Wanted Missing VOR Skipper

    I suspect that some of the attitudes shown on both sides of this argument are cultural. What to some nationalities this seem wrong, to others it is harmless banter. I am sorry i am in the former camp, but it is probably a result of my background. I used to be business development director for a major computer manufacturer looking after the UK. One of my side roles was being a champion for women in the workplace and in that role, I used to speak at conferences and also was a spokesman for all press including TV. When we had problems of sexual harassment, I used to work with the director of HR to resolve the issues. In that situation, we often took legal advise and on a few occasions we needed to get advise from a specialist barrister. By coincidence, some years later, the one we used joined the same golf club as me and we became friends. I decided last night to run this past him, to see if i was being a dickhead about this. His reply, besides claiming I am always a dickhead whether I am right or wrong, was very interesting. His view is that if this happened in a UK workplace, he would have recommended the termination of Witty and Hayles and formal written warnings for the others. If the sponsor had been one of his UK clients, he would have recommended the sacking of Witty. What I didn't expect him to say was something I had completely missed but I totally agreed with. Anybody who thinks this was a one off is simply kidding themselves and that it is highly unlikely that this was the worst behaviour. He also pointed out that clearly Witty knew that what he was doing was offensive at the very lest. No excuses!
  5. Wanted Missing VOR Skipper

    That is not what I said at all. He had no other option in the Volvo. Did you follow what he said about mixed crews in the Volvo and his disparaging comments about women in the race? This is not the first time Witty has been called out for inappropriate comments or behaviour towards women. As for the S2H, why do you think Witty liked to have women on board.
  6. Wanted Missing VOR Skipper

    Some of you are hard work! What you do in the privacy of your own boat with your own friends or guests on board is totally up to you and you can set your own standard. The Volvo is a professional race, the boats are their work place and the crew are employees. They have to behave to a totally different standard to what you do in private. I have known Witty for over 20 years and I would say he is a misogynist. Yes, he will pick an argument with anybody, but he is deeply prejudiced about the ability of women and their place in our sport. People saw a hint of it in his original comments about women on his boat and on women in the race in general. The only reason a woman is on his boat is because he had no other option. Added to his deep set views is a total lack of filter, which does mean you know exactly where you stand with Witty and what he thinks, but which is why most people consider him to be a loose cannon and why, until now and despite trying hard for the last 20 years, he had been unable to get a sponsor for the Volvo.
  7. Wanted Missing VOR Skipper

    I have no idea how AB was affected, but it is totally irrelevant. When it comes to sexual harassment, or even sexual assaults, the reaction of the person it was aimed at does not in any way mitigate the behaviour. To be clear on this, the skit was an ambush planned to get a reaction, whatever that reaction might have been. It was then broadcast. That is not behaviour I want to be associated with. I am pretty certain if that had happened in an office in London, the people involved would have been dismissed on the spot. The Volvo is a professional race and the behaviours need to match. In this case it does not. Has it brought the sport into disrepute? Maybe.Consider the non sailing mother of a 1-14 year old daughter finding that daughter watching the video on the Volvo website. My bet would be that most mothers would be pretty upset by it (after answering the question of "what is a scrotum!") The number of people on here who do not realise that this behaviour is unacceptable highlights why we have an issue with harassment in society today. You cannot tolerate any such behaviour, because as soon as you do, you open up to all sorts of excuses. I don't know many on here, but I would be surprised if more than one or two would actually behave like this even though they are saying it was acceptable. This is about basic respect. It is that simple.
  8. Wanted Missing VOR Skipper

    I agree you are entitled to your personal view, but you are mistaken that the only opinion you should respect on this is from Annemieke. There are 2 reasons for this. First, most women subjected to sexual harassment do not speak out for any number of reasons. It is considered one of the biggest issues in stamping out this type of behaviour, using the "she didn't mind" excuse. Secondly, the issue isn't how Annemieke reacted or what she thought. It is that 2 men deliberately planned a course of action to get a reaction from a woman by using inappropriate content. The fact so many others have reacted negatively tells us it was inappropriate. Now you are just being naive. Why do you think they said "scrotum" and not chest, or ankle or any other part of the body.
  9. Wanted Missing VOR Skipper

    The more I hear about what happened, the more I believe that many of you need to get your heads out of your arses. According to the reports, a group of men rehearsed a a skit that they then sprung on the only female in the crew. It doesn't matter how she reacted. it was done specifically to see how she would react. That is harassment, pure and simple. If it had been banter that got out of hand with comments comments came out in the spur of the moment, while not acceptable, it is excusable. But make no mistake. Now it seems likely that it was premeditated and they knew what they were doing, there are absolutely no excuses. You cannot even take the reaction as evidence it is acceptable. I have watched and i cannot tell if the reaction is shock, disbelief, resigned acceptance of poor behaviour or even fully happy to be part of it, but that is irrelevant. The event that is wrong has already taken place. Just to be clear. A premeditated attempt to get a get a reaction from a woman by using explicit and lewd material is sexual harassment. It is that simple.The reaction of the woman is irrelevant. The location is irrelevant. The fact they are a mixed crew on a racing boat is irrelevant. This is not PC gone crazy or people needing to harden up. This was sexual harassment. If you cannot get that, then you are part of the problem.
  10. Wanted Missing VOR Skipper

    I would like to offer a slightly different view on Witty and his now infamous video. I should declare up front i know him and like him, plus I know some of his crew. I have no problem with that type of banter on board a mixed boat, so long as the women on board have no problem and feel able to comment if they do have a problem. I know women who would find that funny, but I also know women who would find that offensive. I believe there are lots of men who would equally find it uncomfortable if women were joking around about their private parts, but so long as it is all consenting adults, it's OK. One of the real issues is that in most environments, and in reading above, any woman who found it uncomfortable might well feel they cannot speak out because they risk being considered an outsider who shouldn't be there. Then consider that we should be trying our best to make sailing equal opportunity and be encouraging women to participate. Is this really the way to be encouraging women to take part? Is this what we want our children to aspire to. i have 2 daughters and I am imagining them at the ages of, say 12 and 15 following the Volvo. I think they would be horrified by what Witty said and that it would significantly reduce the chances of them wanting to take part in a Volvo While the behaviour might be considered OK on one level, on board. there are so many other levels at which it is wrong and is sending out the wrong message. I don't "blame" Witty as such. He clearly didn't want women in his crew but realised he needed at least one. In addition, Witty always has been "one of the lads", so such humour is well within character - you know what you are going to get with Witty. He is also the product of one of the most misogynistic societies I have ever lived in, so again, it is not outside the norm. I don't know the answer to this because I hear attitudes in Australia are changing, but I think it is outward behaviour has changed, rather than attitude. What was totally wrong was to publish that video in the first place. I think there needs to be a strict test - would you play it to a mixed group of Optimist sailors (under 15). I also cannot see this as being the fault of the OBR. If HQ isn't censoring the output, if they haven't issued strict guidelines, they are in the wrong. Some of you might know I don't come on here very often any more, only for really important issues and I see equal opportunity for women as one such issue. I am passionate about it because 3 out of 4 in my household are women and they deserve equal rights, opportunities and respect. This incident doesn't give them that and is not a good advert for offshore racing for women.
  11. AC 36 Protocol

    A one off post, to set the record straight. Very few warned of the evils of Larry Ellison when he went after Alinghi and Ernesto Bertarelli. Everybody who did was seriously abused and accused of being both an Alinghi supporter and an apologist. Of that few, Marion was the only one who I can recall who really was a supporter and apologist, because she had an agenda and relationship she never disclosed. Clean is right that she couldn't be trusted, she dealt in mistruths (the original "false news"?) and was actually very bitter and didn't trust many, if any. But for all her faults, Marion was right about 2 people, Ellison and MSP, both of whom were touted as saviors of the AC and both of them were shown to be anything but. She deserves some credit for that. The few I remember warning that there was no difference between Ellison and Berarelli were Marion, Dogwatch and myself. I am sure there were a couple of others, so sorry for not name checking them, but it was very, very few. The other big thing I remember was Spinbot and his promise that if Larry ever pulled any of the tricks that EB was accused of, he would be just as vigerous in his condemnation as he was against EB. That never happened. Shame on him. FWIW, I believe that Clean was also in the camp of not trusting Ellison's intentions. My final thought is that we now have a new defender and COR. Some are already suspicious and some are already totally blind to anything that may be wrong. The reality of the AC is that there will never be a perfect defender and there will always be mistakes. The reality is always in the event itself and AC34 was pretty special. AC35 was interesting for me but I suspect far less interesting for many. How AC36 will be judged will be interesting and I am pretty open minded about it. I think it is possible to hav spectacular monohulls, but I wonder how you do it and still get good match racing. However, I also suspect that match racing is way over rated in the AC and there have been very few occasions, if any, when proper match racing decided the AC. I will check back in after 2021 to see what the judgement is.
  12. A Cat Worlds Sopot

    Seriously? People keep asking me why i don't post on this forum any more. Above is one of the reasons. i don't need this shit. If somebody at the regatta site sends me a message and photo, I take their word for it and because nobody else is updating us, i post it. All WnW needed to do was to say it was sunny where he was, but no, he takes my comments and posts the word "bullshit". Fuck it. Why bother.
  13. A Cat Worlds Sopot

    I have only seen 1 boat that was hit by lightning, a 49er, looked perfect from the outside, but every single internal frame was toast and the boat was as floppy as hell. In that case, the helm spent a few days in hospital. I am pleased nobody was hurt on this occasion. I am not sure I could ever trust that mast again as the laminate has to have been damaged.
  14. A Cat Worlds Sopot

    It's funny you don't think writing "bullshit" about one of my posts was abusive? Seriously? And it's not as if what i posted was wrong. With the message I posted above from Mel i also got a picture of dark clouds coming. The race office had just told everybody to tie their boats down. Maybe your perspective of things is a bit different from other people's, but when a good friend sends me a message I trust her and when the race office also posts the same thing, I share it. What do you do? Nothing. If you are on site and are posting, why not post something useful? Woke up this morning to a new message from Mel Also went onto Facebook for news and the first thing I find is a message from the worlds f/b page that says "Racing cancelled due to expected thunderstorms". So WnW, I think I will continue to trust my sources over your "bullshit" Latest news is that tomorrow, the racing begins at 10.00am with 2 races to complete the qualifying series. then back to shore and the fleets will be split into gold and silver. Then there will be 1 race of the finals. Forecast, for what it's worth, says there will be 13-18 knots tomorrow, Thursday is looking like 12-15 knotsin the morning dying to light and shite in the afternoon while Friday will 16-20 knots.
  15. A Cat Worlds Sopot

    You should have read the official website which said batten down the hatches. It was on their WhatsAp feed warning all competitors. I also got the following text from Mel Brewin just before I posted Do you want me to also post the picture she sent me of the building thunderstorm which I believe has now hit leading to sailing being canned for the day. After receiving that text I spoke to 3 people who are there and they all said the same thing. so why are you being an arse trying to undermine me? Strange you are there and I know more than you. Did you look out the window and see blue sky in one direction and not look the other way? Or are you just being a dick?