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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.


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  1. Doug, I think that a healthy dose of Occam's razor needs to be applied here. Just as the 12M yachts were optimised for conditions, if you don't design two sets, you will be slower. In the AC, you can't leave speed on the table, because your competitors wont. Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. (On a completely unrelated topic, where is your thread about the Superfoiler? ) Bruce
  2. In my humble opinion, they are generally one in the same when it comes to foiling boats. The difference is being able to foil tack vs not will make a dramatic difference in the amount of time it takes to cover the racecourse distance. So in essence better manoeuvreability gives you a faster "corner" bottom end and exit speed and you are faster over all. If you question refers to 'maximum' speed, I would also say no, unless you are talking about VMG, as most race boats rarely sail in a mode trying to get maximum straight line speed upwind or down within a race. ( The start line drag race being one notable exception in the AC courses. ) In summary, fastest average speed will win the cup, but manuvers are a key factor in determining what your average speed is.
  3. This is a total non issue, the "new guys" are multiple Olympic medalists who have already been racing against their AC competitors for years. The only difference is the price of their toys and the amount of resources they have to develop and train with. you all forget that helming these cats is not " seat of the pants" sailing like a. 49er. These boats sail you!... the technology is measuring everything and you are sailing to the settings, target, and numbers on tbe dashboard.There is target numbers for everything and the skipper never looks at anything accept the numbers. The tactician/ mainsheet does the numbers trimming and has all tactical options on the tablet. These boats are heads down machines and not heads up ... accept for wind pressure and angle visuals up the course. No. I am not forgetting that. The original point was that they would be "awestruck". Pete has been sailing AC45s for 4 years now (since the youth americas cup last time around). They haven't just been doing the Olympics, they are very familiar with the AC circus.
  4. This is a total non issue, the "new guys" are multiple Olympic medalists who have already been racing against their AC competitors for years. The only difference is the price of their toys and the amount of resources they have to develop and train with.
  5. So what? World sailing could be made to look rather stupid choosing a youth design at the moment based on the fact one has delivered more boats to date. It would only be a relevant factor if the boats delivered were in the hands of youths, which there is little evidence of. Instead, WS should and I am sure will look at all the alternatives. The UFO seems to me to be far more suited to being a youth boat than the Waszp which is effectively a detuned Moth, even with the smaller rig option. The UFO is $3000 cheaper, it appears more robust, easier to learn on and about the same speed. It is being built by a family who have rather a good track record of scaling up to meet demand, so that isn't an issue. The reality is that the lead that the Waszp has is worth no more than a few months. +1 and nothing a ramped up manufacturer couldn't overtake.
  6. Stepping away from intent of classes, (one design, one commercial owner vs open, multi supplier development class), to someone who has never sailed a moth, and is starting at the bottom of the learning curve both boats are, in essence, the same. 11 feet long, narrow skiffs. So the stability and manuverability are, in percentage terms very similar. Waszp is a lot heavier. Stays hurt when you run into them so removing them is a good choice if you don't care about absolute performance. If you compare the Waszp to the UFO you will get much bigger differences. I would try both before you buy either, and don't rely on an Internet forum to make your buying choice if you are considering buying one. If you are trolling and trying to start a flame war, please don't.
  7. I don't agrree. the main reason is that if you don't foil tack you have to lose a huge amount of vmg to get up on foils after the tack,especially in light airs; or at least this is what really makes the difference in moths;it's not the speed difference during the manouvre, but he vmg loss to get back up on foil if u crash down. So I once worked out based on GPS traces a couple of years ago that I was loosing 70-100M per tack (land, turn then get flying again) to our pace setter who sailed the whole race "dry". That translated to ~1/4 - 1/3 of a windward leg each lap. You then change your tactical thinking that it is better to minimise the loss and say, sail on a knock and loose 30 instead if tacking and loosing 80. In the moth fleet, (outside the top 20%) your tacking ability is the main factor in your finishing position in most races. We are only doing 15-18 knots upwind, the AC boats last time out in low mode were doing 24s so the gain will be much bigger for them. When you compare a "touch and go" tack to a fully flying one, the difference is much smaller, but still very obvious.
  8. There have already been smaller super high modulus smaller masts (I have 35mm diameter one). To go smaller the wall thickness has to go up, and stiffness becomes a trade off. 40mm seems to be the weight / stiffness / cost / diameter sweet spot. I have gone back up to a stiffer 40mm mast and gone faster.
  9. It is more about mast sail combination than diameter. There are many many different mast types and each has different bend characteristics. These are then matched to the sails desired fullness, luff round and skipper weight. For example, the Lennon A3M is designed to be used with a CST Elite 22, or 23 depending on skipper weight and how hard you are prepared to pull on the vang and cunningham. Any 50mm moth mast will be at least 5 years old, probably more and won't work with much beyond a MSL 12 (the bladerider X8 sail )
  10. Everything is a cost vs weight vs drag issue. Remove the spreaders, you need to increase the weight and/or size of the mast. At this stage, at least based on the experiments that I know of it is a net loss not a gain to do it.
  11. Not if you know what you are doing. There are some wand geometry tricks to sort out that problem.
  12. Thoughts on production volume affecting the end product? I wonder what a Mach2 would look like/how fast it would be if they were selling 10 per year... AMAC does seem to have a completely different philosophy about design. Yes. He is very good at designing for manufacturing at scale.
  13. So it looks like the smarter option is to buy a rocket. Obvs. quick but a shorter wait to get one ?
  14. I guess most of the mach2s from the ac teams which didnt'do the 2016 worlds are basically the same as sorrento (outerridge, oracle boat used by goto, etc). I've been told bowsprit will come as standard on m2s next year along with new rudder, sail and tramps, but it's just chat,so not really sure. I guess amac is really trying something new before garda,now that the waszp is up and running. That is one of the big differences with the Exocets. You are always getting the latest gear when you buy one, you don't have to wait until the next "version" is released. An Exocet can, in theory, win a worlds "out of the box", a Mach 2 can't anymore.
  15. Phil ... I call bullshit the : RS Tera RS Quba RS Feva RS Vision RS Venture RS Vareo RS 100 RS 200 RS 300 RS 400 RS 500 RS 600 RS 700 RS 800 RS 900 RS Aero RS Elite Are all unique boats, each adding value to our sport, and they do nothing to dilute fleets. By contrast, when you have multiple manufacturers building within multi-design classes e.g. A Class or NS14, the competition for sailors business actually benefits the fleet numbers.