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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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  1. scallywags cause uproar at rhkyc

    Hey! That's a hilarious breach of procedure in my opinion! I don't think the rules allow them to simply 'cancel' the hearing like that, based just on a retirement!!! In the statement from the committee, it is stated that a date for the hearing was set. This implies that the committee had found from the investigation that there were grounds for a hearing. So the committee has acted under 69.2(e). 69.2(e) If the protest committee decides to call a hearing, it shall promptly inform the person in writing of the alleged breach and of the time and place of the hearing and follow the procedures in rules 63.2, 63.3(a), 63.4 and 63.6 Once arriving at the decision to hold a hearing, and setting the date, the committee is required to 'follow the procedures in the rules 63.x'. In otherwords, the hearing should go ahead! Particularly, 63.6 requires evidence to be taken. 63.6 Taking Evidence and Finding Facts The protest committee shall take the evidence of the parties present at the hearing and of their witnesses and other evidence it considers necessary. Nowhere in rule 69, does it appear that the committee may rescind a decision to hold a hearing! (The rules are written presumably like this to stop any kind of 'bullying or persuasion' of the protest committee to drop the hearing after it becomes clear that there could be trouble. Normally if that happens, the misconduct has already occurred. Also, to make it impossible to simply 'get away with it' by retiring.) In other words, once the decision to go to hearing has been made, it seems to me the hearing must go ahead! Conversely, a boat has up until the committee acts under 69.2(e) to 'fess up and take the penalty. After that, its too late. ----------------------------------- Retiring from a race, doesn't and shouldn't fix a 'misconduct'. You can't call someone a C*** and then say, "OK...I'll retire are we quits now?" Likewise, you can't refuse to take a penalty when you learn you've broken a rule (that 'refusal' being the misconduct), and then when it suits, take a penalty. You still have to answer to the time when you refused to take the penalty in the first place. I'm not sure what's going on over there in the Far East, but it looks as though there was an ulterior motive for the retirement, and also someone has managed to persuade (let's hope not bullied) the protest committee to (unwittingly?) step out of procedure and drop everything! Maybe time for the MNA to wade in. Fascinating....
  2. scallywags cause uproar at rhkyc

    Even I can get a GPS track from my computer and very quickly know whether I took a mark to left or right. Who knows why it took them 3 weeks.
  3. scallywags cause uproar at rhkyc

    No doubt they made a mistake. No doubt when they signed the form, they beloved they had sailed the correct course. No doubt too, when they learned of the protest, they very quickly knew they had made a mistake. At that point, shouldn't a new declaration have been submitted?
  4. scallywags cause uproar at rhkyc

    I agree. The more I think about it, it smells. The timing is just too coincidental...a hearing next Monday.. there is a reason for the retirement at this point in time. I sincerely hope they don't get to 'dodge' a hearing by their retirement. That would not be right. Time to retire was when they learned that they may have broken a rule. Page 1 of the rule book..."A fundamental principle of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule they will promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire." The key word here being 'promptly'. The race result is incidental to the possible breach of that fundamental principal of sportsmanship. The RET doesn't make it all better. Well, let's see if the hearing goes ahead. It would be curious if it did not. This also intrigues me. How were they meant to inform Scallywag if they had left the area? Hmmm...
  5. scallywags cause uproar at rhkyc

    Wow. What does that mean for the hearing? Seems to me an easy way put it all to bed.. Too easy... Why is the focus on the declaration? At some point Scallywag must have known.. Maybe even after the first hearing? Surely the obligation to 'take a penalty when you learn you've broken a rule extends indefinitely... Or at least while the race in question is being talked about... Why then so long to retire? Clearly a great deal of time and effort has been put into this so far.. is that just the past now? Something doesn't seem to be right.
  6. Barging question

    Not sure I agree. The communication is different but still there. Maybe a bit more mature, and with a bit more understanding. I encourage 'non - required' comms. Approaching a mark, some quiet discussion well in advance often gets everyone around more orderly. Warning a boat of rights you may need to use in the future..., waving a boat through early (that you won't be using your rights), swinging your arm to signal 'no overlap'... These all help. I think this is the difference. Dw
  7. scallywags cause uproar at rhkyc

    What was the result of all this?
  8. scallywags cause uproar at rhkyc

    A track would surely do it, no? Are you sure there was a track? It mentions their tracker here: But perhaps it was not theirs but one of a witness? Certainly reading the evidence from fellow competitors they sailed the course incorrectly. They signed a statement saying otherwise? Ignorance or else? http://www.rhkyc.org.hk/upload/Sailing/Race-and-Regattas/SanFernandoRace/Report-by-Protest-Committee-to-RHKYC-re-protest-by-Standard-Insurance-Centennial-III-against-Scallywag-in-the-San-Fernando-Race--April-2017.pdf I think only track there is from a witness boat. Not sure though. what about the declaration...does it mean that much? they would have signed that before the protest was in...no? maybe just ignorance. Nothing naughty.
  9. scallywags cause uproar at rhkyc

    A track would surely do it, no? Are you sure there was a track?
  10. Memorizing Racing Rules

    1. Learn the definitions verbatim. 2. Read the Casebook. 3. Read the rule book. Substitute the definition any time you read word in bold or italics. 4. Split up and learn the rule book as its parts and sections. Notice that each facet of a race only has a few rules.
  11. Race Committee Scoring Errors

    If I'm reading this right, it's rubbish. Any boat can request redress on behalf of another boat. (60.1b) The request for redress must be based around the fact that a boat's (any boat) score has been or'may' be worsened. (62.1) So, for sure. You can request redress for a boat who comes to your assistance per rule 1.1 (62.1c) Dw
  12. What a prick of a comment. Surfing down a wave is fun. 21 kts for some boats is incredible. Why not let them have their moment?
  13. Crew Overboard Drill Requirement

    There is no excuse for not doing this drill...especially if going offshore. I normally split the drill into two parts and practice separately 1. Handling of boat to return to MOB Cue 20 million posts on the best way to pick MOB up! Before this gets too heated a debate ("My way is better than your way!") let's just remember that there are many good ways of doing it. I personally think that many people 'overthink' this part. Each time I've had to recover an MOB for real, we have always used a modified method to suit the conditions. The main part, is that everyone has a few techniques in the back of their minds which they can draw upon in the heat of the moment. 2. MOB Egress Many people underestimate the 'egress' part. Taking a dead-weight body is hard. It needs to be thought of in advance. The method will depend on the size and design of boat.
  14. RRS 20 hail when no Obstruction

    Sailx all over again!