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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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About samc99us

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    Annapolis, MD

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  1. I'd say that is pretty damn good! How does she compare to the Dazcats in terms of accommodations? Would love to go see the boat in NYC.
  2. Did the boat perform to its rating?
  3. The Jay, Am I reading that correctly, you are out of the class? If so that's a shame. I really don't think a radically different hull shape is coming along in the F18 world and obsoleting the fleet, but that has always been a bit of a risk. The latest hulls shapes have more or less converged IMO and it comes down to the sailor to make it perform. ACS, have you sailed with a decksweeper in 5-12+ ft waves on the F18? I would like to hear from those who have, because I have skin in the game. I don't know why Mischa skipped the sealed tramp, I suspect time. I have one on order primarily because I find the mesh tramp is pretty tightely sealed anyway and the advantage of the sealed tramp is a stiffer platform. Goodall seem to think it's worthwhile. Perhaps Mischa found the sealed tramp hold water on the wet F18 and there isn't enough drainage without full mesh? Team_GBR, you make a valid point. My point is because of the relatively open F18 sail rules, there has been development, and I think that has been a good thing over the life of the class. Possibly bad at times with folks buying new sails but this has also kept the class from going extinct imo as boats like the Nacra 20 faced when their SMOD sails were found to be significantly outdated.
  4. Congrats to Peter Duncan on his win. Carlo's letter is pretty interesting to me. Does anyone have the facts to his situation from a 3rd party? If his letter is truthful, then he did nothing wrong, advised the measurement committee of his actions, and his boat never failed measurement, they just declared it illegal under some sort of guilty until proven innocent clause? I'd be taking that decision on up the appeals chain then to CAS frankly, but I'm sure there is more to the story.
  5. Pro-Set isn't the most readily sourced resin. You will likely be okay with straight West Systems and maybe a little bit of cabosil so it isn't as runny. Given your location (northern latitude) I don't expect the heat to be much of an issue.
  6. We did 100+ mile legs in the Tybee 500 days and they were common in the Worrell 1000. These are reaching courses generally so go fast when average speeds are in the high teens low 20's with no tacks or gybes. Plenty of Hobie 16's etc. have done Key West to Havana.
  7. Class/Organization for offshore beach cats? You must be joking. We can hardly organize a trip to the bar! As best I can tell, the classes that are organized in the U.S are the Hobie 16, maybe some other Hobie racing out West, the F18 class, the A-Cats (not offshore rated, personally I wouldn't accept a request to sail from an A-cat in the open ocean on a distance course, the boats aren't fragile but they are fast, prone to flipping and singlehanded distance racing is risky), and to some extent the F16 class. The F20c's are also organized in Florida and are making inroads to the distance racing scene. U.S Sailing does very little outside of Olympic Multihull sailing and generally isn't involved in anything offshore. A far as a SER, I would look at the requirements for the Florida 300 and the Great Texas 300 races. Your best bet is to use SCHRS for the rating system (Portsmouth hasn't been updated in forever), personally I prefer the 2016 ratings as there is some funniness in how the F16's are rated in 2017 but that is another discussion. Hope that helps.
  8. There is small diameter rope glued in back there? Odd. You have the piece that came off? Use epoxy, pro-set would be best but West Systems will get the job done to bond back on. I'm not entirely sure what the mast was made from but 99% it is carbon and epoxy. Maye have been wet layup but likely a pre-preg like most carbon tubes. The reason for recommending a more advanced resin system than standard west is the latter has a pretty low heat deflection temperature, about 125 degrees F, which a black carbon part will easily exceed in the sun on a hot day (numbers like 150 degrees F ring a bell).
  9. Well that's good news Soma!!! Hows is everything else down there? What is the best way to help?
  10. A new decksweeper boom from Mischa is 450 euro, compared with ~200 USD for a new Nacra F18 boom today. This is the largest cost delta, I agree in reality the cost is probably $100 more but it did take Mischa a fair bit of experimenting to get the boom right and he certainly wasn't starting from scratch! A sealed tramp isn't much different cost wise than a mesh tramp. Its primarily a material change. Not a big deal, I have one in the works as I needed a new tramp anyway. On boat costs, Exploder are at the 16,500 euros ($20k usd) mentioned above for a base boat with sails and rigging but no beach wheels, trailer, trailer box, hull cradles, covers or shipping. So you are back in the $23-$26k range with those items, which is still a good deal considering the other builders are at ~$23k base. Two builders I have spoken with are at $27k USD base. I think the general market recalls when new boats were in the $12k USD range a decade or more ago and expect new boats to still cost that much which is very rarely the case.
  11. Check the Tornado Class Rules. If you want this sort of sh$t to stop, that is the level of measurement scrutiny that must take place. It is also why only one builder in that class really succeeded at the Olympic level, because they flat out built the best boat using the best materials and best construction method available at the time. The premium charged from the factory was worth it to those competing at the level where swapping keels would be a common place event. The J/70 class should have, some 2 years ago, said okay, we understand the boats aren't all the same, we are cutting all new tooling held to +/- 0.005" tolerance (i.e AC50 level tolerances) and all new boats will come from this tooling, they will cost a bit more but they won't require work from the factory to get them 'fair or make the keel 'better'. This wasn't done so now templates must be supplied, at least a couple sets per continent, to fix the boats that were 'illegally modified' to a rule that doesn't exist etc. How can you bring a keel back to class legal fair after legitimate damage if there are no templates to go from? One is at best left working from templates pulled from another J/70 but how do you know if that boat is legal if its keel, hull etc. has never been measured? Also, this whole situation proves the fallacy of pure one design classes and why, long term and in classes that are not Olympic, box rule classes make a lot more sense. It is far easier to check boats for compliance with weight, maximum draft, rig dimensions, sail area and a couple of hull checks than busting out full measurement templates for the whole boat.
  12. I own both a foiling A and an F18. I would like an F18 that is capable of being fitted with lifting foils, but there are limits to that, and this would primarily be for distance racing, NOT course racing. I'm personally not ecstatic about course racing a doublehanded foiler, because of the speeds and the mistakes the more average club sailors are likely to make in close quarters that will result in severe accidents. Heck, even Europe's top N17 team took out a mast in the last race at Worlds due to a pretty silly mistake! I just don't think foiling speeds are a good idea for your average club racer or weekend warrior. Its taken a lot of shifting in the A-Cat to get where we are today and I can say the A is no longer a boat that you can get around the course safely simply by practicing on occasional weekends or showing up to regattas. We are training 2-3 days a week on the foiling A to get around the course in full control and of course sail the boat to its potential. Very very few doublehanded sailors in the U.S can put that amount of training in as they don't have local crew at all times. You can read Mischa's comments on the F18 as well. It remains a very very good platform for raid sailing, its durable, its substantially cheaper than a foiler, its plenty fast, it has a large worldwide class association etc. There is a movement afoot to lower the price of new boats which is a good thing as long as quality doesn't come down, and I think the class association/management need to evaluate how best to keep the class relevant and active for the next 10 years. I don't think adding foils to the boat will change its relevance and will likely alienate sailors. The DS has the potential to go either way.
  13. I have to say that the F18 is under a good bit of pressure at the moment to stay relevant in the new foiling world. I'm just pulling one set of numbers, those published by the French class in terms of measurement certain, you can find the data here: http://f18.fr/jauge.php A whopping 8 boats with 2016 hull numbers were measured last year and a few with older hull numbers updated in early 2017. No boats with 2017 hull numbers appear on their online database. I'm not saying they don't exist, but a slowing in new boat sails is not a good thing, especially in the country where the class was founded. On the DS, the Nacra 6.0 had them. I've spoken to two sailors from that era, neither had pleasant things to say regarding them (a fair bit of swimming and useless sail area in light air). This is on a boat that was pretty heavy and generally underpowered, a bit closer to the F18 case than the A cat or the C-Class catamaran.
  14. Longboardebo, Nice reccount, but there are a couple corrections: 2) New Sailors: Use a non-decksweeping main. There are also mains that don't have quite as large a decksweeping area. 4) Cost: A new Nacra F18 Infusion is around $27k, as is the Falcon F18. Not sure what a Goodall C2 is. $37k is closer to the price of an F20carbon. I'm not saying this is cheap by any means, but there are second hand competitive boats available from $12k-$17k. Decksweepers aren't driving costs up. Pros: 1) Competition from the N17: This is a bit of a real concern but this is a 2-person mixed boat. There are hardly any foiling Nacra 17's in the U.S and if you want serious doublehanded competition your best place to find it still is in the F18 fleet. The 3 teams that podiumed at this event wouldn't even be eligible to sail in the N17. All are effectively semi-pro sailors, Robbie coaches for a living, as does Dalton and Ken is retired AFAIK and sails extensively. I also don't know what other 2 person boat is stealing sailors, as both the F20FCS and Flying Phantom don't have regatta circuits in the U.S or really the world for that matter. The issue with the class at the moment has more to do with events and peoples time. A set regatta schedule needs to be published well in advance, like the A-cat class does for their winter series. The class dues and there use should be carefully considered. The 505 fleet uses the membership fees to subsidize boat transport costs from the East Coast to the West Coast and vice versa for major events like Nationals and Worlds. IMO this is something we should consider seriously to keep attendance at these events high, which in turn attracts more sailors. I won't speak to performance as that has been proven on the race course in a variety of conditions and the sails used at 2017 North Americans were first generation Goodall sails as far as I know. What I will say is the class has a bit of an issue as these sails have been measured in at the 2017 World Championship. We have a World Championship starting a little over 1 year from now. I can say that the train has left the station and unless the sails are banned soon, their acceptance will continue gaining steam. Further, if it is halted, what does the class do for all the sailors who bought decksweepers (~$2.5k w/ boom) only to find them banned by the next iteration of class rules that appear in 3-6 months time? What about those like myself looking to buy a decksweeper and start training with it this fall/winter? Even some of the changes to the rules that were discussed in Denmark this summer haven't been finalized and I don't believe the decksweeper main was on the agenda for discussion there.
  15. Thanks for that, much appreciated! We were happy it wasn't blowing like stink on the way home, but that chop outside G7 wasn't much fun either!