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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

      After fifteen years of volunteer moderation at SA, I will no longer be part of the moderation team. The decision to step aside is mine, and has been some time in the works but we did not wish to announce it in advance for a number of reasons. It's been fun, but I need my time back for other purposes now. The Underdawg admin account will not be monitored until further notice, as I will be relinquishing control of it along with my administrative privileges. Zapata will continue on as a moderator, and any concerns or issues can be directed to that account or to the Editor until further notice. Anyone interested in helping moderate the forums should reach out to Scot by sending a PM to the Editor account. Please note that I am not leaving the community, I am merely stepping aside from Admin responsibilities and privileges on the site.

samc99us

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  1. I would find someone local to re-do the whole hulls. You'll save a good amount of change by sanding and fairing yourself, then re-spraying gelcoat. It also depends on how much damage there is. I'm assuming a typical older Hobie 16 that has been beach launched and landed hundreds if not thousands of times. For a newer boat that perhaps was always moved on wheels, just re-paint the damaged areas.
  2. This just up: https://www.thebeachcats.com/classifieds/catamarans-for-sale/p15231-1994-hobie-sport-cruiser-21-sc.html
  3. Depending on the size of the piece, you can apply with a foam brush a bit thick, I then like to use a coat of Partall PVA applied with a bottle sprayer, let cure, then come back and sand starting at 320 grit usually and working up to a mirror polish. The other option is to find someone local who can spray the stuff. Their time and effort is usually cheaper than yours.
  4. I've been lead to believe you can never get gelcoat to spray and NOT orange peel. I could have been lied to. It all polishes out easy enough.
  5. I missed the "self-contain" statement. I haven't used a turbine sprayer myself, but your description sounds about right from everything I've read.
  6. Panoramix, Yes and yes. Most 30 gallon compressors will get the job done and a cheap gravity fed HVLP gun will work fine for your job.
  7. True. Then as TN_kiwi points out, add an extra day for air freight. Generally speaking on something like this, it's preferable to have the design and build team right next to each other as the timeline is too short to generate detailed drawings for an overnight fab job. TN_kiwi, I agree with you, if they had a faster foil design already, they would have gone with it. If they thought they could have done better when they got up close and personal with the NZL boat, they would have had that in the pipeline already. My take on their asymmetric board choice on Sunday was they knew Sunday morning that they had a speed deficit in those conditions and by putting two different foils into the boat they would at least get the opportunity to test two foil configurations in one day, giving them valuable data in the off time. They now know which foils to run and can focus on optimizing the boat for that configuration. I also agree that the best Oracle can do now are improve their control systems, maybe move ride height off JS and work on their boat handling. Will these changes be enough? That's hard to say-I don't think NZL are going to fall into a trap this week and will be working to improve their boat handling and boat speed as well. It seems that Burling/Ashby are a pair of fast sailors in a fast boat and know how to get a foiling multihull downwind with better VMG than probably anyone in the world. JS/TS better come out swinging come Saturday or I fear its game over.
  8. Lets assume for a minute you have an industrial CNC mill and autoclave on site in Bermuda (not too far fetched). Lets also assume for a minute you have a new light air tip design ready to roll today. You need four molds-top left, top right, bottom left, bottom right. That is an easy 24 hours of machining time, likely more. Then you have the layup. That's where the real issue is, lets say they have the molds ready to go tomorrow AM. You have to debulk every 3 layers or you will have air entrapped in your pre-preg. I'm guessing these laminates are in the neighborhood of 30 layers of UHM uni carbon pre-preg in the 9 oz/yd^2 cloth range. That equates to 10 de-bulk sessions per mold at an average cycle of 2 hours (1-1.5 hour of debulking, 30 minutes to lay cloth into mold). That is 20 hours of time. Then you have the cure cycle in the autoclave, which is likely a ramp up ramp down cure cycle with about a 12 hour total cycle. So total time we are talking about 32 hours plus the machining. Again, this is all just for a new horizontal shaft, and I may be optimistic in my times (my shop takes 3x this for the same process but they are slow and working multiple projects and don't have everything they need on site). I'm guessing another four hours of de-mold and finishing time, again that could be optimistic but this isn't their first rodeo. So maybe, very optimistically, within 36 hours after tooling is available they can have a new set of horizontals on the boat and out on the sound practicing. That would be ~Wednesday, and again my numbers are rather optimistic and assume a full professional team working around the clock. I suspect the 3 month lead time is about right for an outsourced board build. Tooling alone takes about half that time to have produced at an outside shop (6 weeks ARO).
  9. +1 to the above. Here in the U.S you can get a good boat suitable for conversion like a Marstrom, Flyer, Evo or A3 for well under $10k, more like under $8k. The big thing to look for is a reasonably stiff platform in good shape with the front beam as far forward as you can get. Most used boats won't have new rigs-I'm not yet sure how critical that is, certainly for winning a major championship it is important, but for learning how to foil it is likely less important. Then it's another $5k for the decksweeper and Exploder foiling kit. This is pretty good bang for the buck, especially if you do the work yourself. I just caution those considering this about the work involved. Its more like 100 hours and that's if you are handy with composites. Folks that have done it before can likely do it in half the time.
  10. Windage is an issue if you are trying to pedal directly upwind for whatever reason (to make a tide gate). I agree with you Randy, its very hard to beat a fast multihull in terms of speed and cost. This would make a potential weapon if you could keep the foils in one piece: http://yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-catamarans/foiling-trimaran/168518 I'm not a huge fan of the Hobie Wildcat inspired floats or the price tag, but it is a 40' all carbon trimaran with top speed in the thirty knot range.
  11. It's pretty clear what works and what doesn't in this race. You need shelter and a fast boat that is easily pedaled. I will say that a very light monohull with high power to weight ratio and full time rowing/paddling capability likely stands a chance-much less windage when in rowing/paddling mode which certainly plays a factor in parts of the course. FYI, I know where a couple TP52's are laid up in ready to sale shape, might be able to get you a 2 for 1 deal.. Randy, I'm pretty jealous of your purchase, as soon as I saw what Tripp was taking to Alaska I did some digging then wondered if the boat was still for sale...seems like the right boat for a lot of good purposes akin to what Pete did when he owned the boat. Would love to see a photo of the below decks accommodations. One of the downsides to the SeaCart 30 is its very spartan and dark down below, it doesn't make for a good family cruising/glamping ride when you're not racing it.
  12. I've just been down this path. I still haven't launched my boat yet, but I'm getting close. I can wholeheartedly say that you are generally speaking better off buying a used foiler rather than working the conversion. I'm into my conversion for over $11k and I got a steal on the base platform. I'm missing the latest generation rig and sails, and my platform (an 05' Boyer Flyer) probably isn't as stiff as a newer DNA or Exploder, but I did end up with the latest Exploder 2017 foiling package (Z10's and 2017 rudders) on a lower volume platform (which seems to be the direction things are headed back) that is known fast upwind in floating mode. We will see how she goes as a foiler, as A Class Sailor points out this should be more than sufficient for learning how to foil and if I get even 60% of what I have in her back out in a year or two selling to another new class member looking to learn, I might come out okay on the $ side.
  13. Its going to be a nail biter for the finish. That forecast suggests going east of Duke Island might be the favored passage, but I have no idea what the terrain elevation is on Metlakatla vs. the main land looks like. Who has the better pedal drive system? The Nacra 20 was a balsy call for this race, as the Burd brothers found out with the ARC22 in the 2015 edition. Really fast when you can sail and push, but the lack of protection makes for a challenging ride to say the least.
  14. Interesting question. We are doing about windspeed, 9-10 kts, tacking through about 110 degrees on the Tornado in roughly 10 kts of wind (white caps just happening). In flat water I'm estimating we can do 16 kts upwind with 20 kts of breeze tacking through 90-100 degrees. Maybe not, but that is what I am estimating as we are easily pushing high 14 kts upwind in breeze with two on the wire and 2-3' chop. This certainly calls into doubt Toms Astus speeds, but I'm not claiming any doubt at the rest of his issues with the boat. Flat water is also a big difference from normal sailing venues. On the F18, 13.5-14kts is common upwind in big breeze and 3' chop with similar tacking angles, though in high mode we can tack through under 90 degrees and maintain speeds in the high 12's upwind. The non-foiling A-cat has about the same speed and tacking angles in these conditions, and I am comparing against very well sailed A's (one of the fastest sailors on the Chesapeake and on the u.s east coast in a Boyer Mk. V). Keep in mind these are conditions where downwind we are pushing 22-23kts relatively easily and can blast reach into the 25 kt range. I have little doubt about the upwind foiling A cat speeds, which are a good 4+ kts faster than my top speeds reported here, and the same angle or higher. Where the A really shines is going upwind, the tacking angles are small compared with most cats and the speed is high even in lower wind ranges because the boat is soo light. It takes a very good crew and conditions where it is double trapezning and active mainsheet trimming pay big to catch an A cat upwind in a sloop rigged high performance beach cat. I don't think the Astus would manage, but I haven't seen one in person, nor have I seen it line up against an A cat, F18 or Tornado.
  15. This is somewhat old news. Its pretty much the same setup that has been tested in the U.S by a top A cat sailor several years back. Increasing the wheelbase is the point, the drag delta is low but the moments imparted are worth looking at for sure. My interpretation of the rules prior to the 2017 re-write(which simplify things, and I don't intend to turn this into a rules debate) is that anything on the rudders was legally as long as it was 6" or more below the transom. Several boats at the last worlds had non-compliant rudder systems that required marking the blades such that the non compliant overhanging, i.e t-foils, were 6" or more below the transom at all times. Also, rudder gantries are specifically banned by the A-class rule. This approach, again per the 2016 rules, is one of only two methods I am aware of to extend the wheelbase in a class legal manner. It would be entirely possible under the 2016 rules to extend the rudder winglet some feet behind the boat. With the 2017 300mm rule I don't think this is possible. Scheurers concept isn't that radical and the extra wheelbase they show may not be worth the drag penalty, and most of their gains are likely driven from other modifications to the boat. However, I'm not yet sure their hype is over-rated, we won't really know that until Worlds. ALL the feedback I have heard is very positive and the design changes they made make the boat a more practical upwind foiler. That being said, I don't believe they were sailing against the very latest from the Exploder team so the Aussies may be on different equipment+skill level that have them upwind foiling more successfully and with higher boat speed than the G7 has shown thus far. Very little in terms of video footage showing Brewin or Bundock foiling upwind, and I suspect the cat will remain firmly in the bag until Sopot.