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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

The Jay

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  1. Yep, Ren, you're right, in reality the Deed is (and should be) hard to change. I was referring to another poster who apparently didn't realise it, so I ran with their hypothetical situation.
  2. Your own undoubted expertise in one subject does not mean that we must ignore the undoubted expertise of people in other subjects. Many people have done work on barriers into entry into sport, and what they tell us is that other factors like cost and time DO matter. The fact that you've done proper studies into the area does make your input valuable, but how do you work out whether the popularity on social media is a leading indicator of popularity or a trailing indicator? And when SUPping started it was only a tiny blip on social media, so how do you get the snowball rolling?
  3. There were also lots of cheap boats that were not actual working craft, but as Jeff says, had adopted their general design. They included Crickets, Shelter Island Sharpies, Gravesend Bay Flatties, canvas dinghies in Sydney, big fleets of Tuckups, Duckers and Hikers along the Delaware, development class sharpies in Brisbane Australia, "punts" in southern Australia and the Thames, 300 sailing Gigs in Amsterdam, over 50 gigs in a single race on the Thames as early as the 1870s, Wakatere Punts in NZ, Moths, 12 Square Metre Sharpies, 9 Metre Sharpies, lots of little local clinker classes in the UK, Swallow and Lark scows all round the world, Snowbird in Cali. You can go to online newspaper archives across the English speaking world and find accounts of local races in all these sorts of boats from the late 1800s on. A lot of the time the reason they are forgotten is probably not because they were not popular in their day, but because they tended to be very localised and almost all of them died out when they were replaced by the wide-spread classes of later eras. Some of these boats prove that sailing can survive lots of bad times if it makes allowances for them. The Snipe was born in the worst time of the Great Depression, but it gave under-employed men something to do at a time when they had lost the dignity of labour and could not afford a bigger boat. If the sport adjusts to the times and refreshes the grass roots during bad times it can thrive.
  4. TP52s, International 14s, A Class cats, C class cats, F18s, Minis, Open 60s and ORC boats are all development (or at least semi-development, in the case of ORC) classes. Why are the 130-140 boat F18s or ORC world titles, for example, not a "major" regatta when the 20-boat 18 regattas are?
  5. Good post. PS - there were boats specifically built for planing well before the summer of 1926, like the Smith Bros canoes of the 1800s.
  6. Evidence for this claim is.....where? If the media is the big problem then why are people getting into SUPping and plastic kayaks, which aren't huge in the media? And surely the lack of spare cash for many people must have some effect on the popularity of the sport.
  7. Congratulations on following up on your passion for speed. Why not go for a kitefoil instead? They seem to be faster and the faster is better why keep sailing a cat?
  8. But you wouldn't have an AC where two or three teams chose "slow" boats and others go full throttle. If the CoR and Defender chose "slow" boats then anyone who wants to go "full throttle" has to go and find another race. If pure speed matters so much why are you sailing a Tornado instead of a foiling kite or N20 foiler -they go faster.
  9. There was a big difference between AC boats and the fastest boats at times. A 12 Metre like Valiant would not have been close to the speed of the wing masted tri Pen Duick, which is the same age and length. Boats like the foiling wingmasted tri Paul Ricard and the 85' cat Jet Services V were knots faster than a 12 Metre or IACC boat in the same eras. Have you ever seen a crowd walk away from a WRC rally, motorbike race, Tourenwagen race or NASCAR because the cars don't go as fast as F1? As I type this, there are millions of people watching men go about 12 knots in the world's biggest sporting event. Pure speed is irrelevant to most spectators.
  10. Dennis seemed to have a very erratic sense for when cheating was going on back then. I think it was in Comeback where he wrote that Australia II was too fast to be a legal 12 Metre and that he knew it because he had such an incredibly well honed sense for how fast a legal 12 could go. Funnily enough, the same incredibly fine senses did not help him identify a cheating boat when he sailed ON one himself, as he did when he raced the Peterson IOR boat Acadia.
  11. No, once again the first ACs were NOT sailed by the fastest boat of the YC. You can keep on saying it, but that doesn't mean it's right. America was easily beaten by Maria, a NYYC boat owned by J C Stevens, in trials in New York before America left to cross the Atlantic. Steers also said later that America was probably not as fast as the working pilot schooner Mary Taylor. The first challenger, Cambria, started nine races in England in the year she challenged for the AC, and won only one of them. Egeria was clearly faster and Flying Cloud was clearly faster for her size. The second challenger, Livonia, had an even worse record and was one of the dogs of the English pack. Galatea was also a known slow boat. Valkyrie II, as another example, was going slower than Britannia before she left for the AC. Roll on to more modern times and your claim is still wrong. Many of the clubs that raced 12 Metres in the AC also had much faster boats like IOR maxis around the same time. When IACC boats came in, many clubs had faster IMS maxis, sleds or other boats that were bigger and faster than the AC boats Sorry, but you should perhaps consider not repeating claims that are not true.
  12. Nope. Maria beat America in trials before she left America, and George Steers said that one of his pilot cutters (Mary Taylor) was probably faster than America. The early challengers were normally pretty much just normal British first-class racers. For example Valkyrie II rated slower than Britannia and Satanita. During the J Class era there were a bunch of other British boats that rated pretty much the same as boats like the Endeavours, and raced closely with them in domestic regattas. The schooner Westward rated higher and beat them all at times. The 12 Metres were much slower than boats like Manureva (69' wingmasted tri), Jet Services (85' cat), Apricot (ORMA 60 predecessor), Lada Poch, Great Britian III and IV etc. Even the monohull maxis and the remaining M Class were much quicker than the 12 Metres, and of course during the IACC era boats like the IMS maxis, the 75 footers, the 80' IRC maxis and the Grand Mistrals were much faster. The kids are "not all on foiling stuff". There's only about 100-200 FPs in the whole world, and something like 400 N17s, and most of them are not sailed by kids. And the last time I checked, the number of kids sailing kitefoilers was tiny. So there's maybe a few hundred kids on foiling stuff in a sport that has many tens of thousands of kids. Go back 30 years ago and a windsurfer or a Tornado could often beat a 12 Metre around a course, but the AC was still the AC. Most fans either don't know or don't care if the sports gear they are looking at is the fastest thing that can be designed - did you ever see fans walking away from a Tourenwagen race or the Tour de France because there are faster cars or bikes, or did you see them turning off Michael Phelps because he didn't wear a streamlined suit and flippers?
  13. The AC boats were not much faster (if at all) than other boats from 1851 to 2010, and for long periods they were actually significantly slower. It doesn't seem to worry the public much.
  14. So how did it compare, in objective terms, to 1983 or 1987?
  15. We'll have to differ whether the issue is a lack of follow-up - no reasonable amount of follow-up will put a fleet of winged foilers on the typical waterway, just as it's never put a fleet of full-on skiffs on the typical waterway around the world. The TdF is not extreme per se - as noted earlier there's a full-on industry based on weekend warriors riding up the great mountain passes. From personal experience I know that the route for tomorrow's mountainous TdF stage, for example, is something that a competent middle-aged man with a bit of training and a $1000 bike can do - we just do it a lot slower than Froome and co. You may well be right that the AC and its boats are of little relevance, but Coutts etc claimed the new boats would change the perception of the whole sport.