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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

rck

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  1. The term "great big brass ones" comes to mind, Zeyang... be careful. Is the shed strong enough to lower her down the other side, with come alongs from the top of the shed structure, or are you planning on jacks under the (now nearly horizontal) keel? Or both? Just don't let anybody be brave and macho and foolish enough to get under her. If she decides to roll, being 20 years old and nearly invincible won't be enough to stop her. Slow, deliberate, and careful will win this battle... but it seems like that's the way you're appoaching it, so carry on.
  2. Semi, around here it rarely gets too cold for epoxy... except when it's in the teens for a few days in a row, and that's usually only 2 or 3 times a winter. I use the slow cure West sytem, and with the boat sealed up and well insulated 2 little electric cube heaters get it up into the 50's by noon time, and it keeps climbing. There are days when I wait and do all the epoxy work for that day late in the day, say 5 to 7, then leave the heat on and come out at mid night and shut it down. In the shop it's not too much of a problem, as long as I'm willing to pay for the heat... I've never had anything fail to cure as long as I kept the temps in the 50's for a few hours until it kicks. Now if I were doing a wood hull all west system outdoors with no heat, there would be problems. I try not to do too much in the boat if it's in the low 20's or below outside, but there's always something to do in the shop. When I was welding the hull with no heat 25 was my cut off... too much moisture in the welds without pre heat... but again, there was always something to do in the shop. Best, Bob
  3. Bitches, I've been following your thread all along and it sounds like you're doing just fine with that boat. Just keep assuming there's nothing you can't handle, and you'll get it done. The table has not been high on my priority list and the fact that I'm thinking about it at all indicates that we are inching ever so slowly closer to sort of finished. The boat's big enough that the table won't be in the way, but the problem is that my wife wants to be able to turn a dining room into a living room, so she wants it to be able to drop and probably fold to make more like a coffee table. She's put up with an awful lot of craziness over the years; I figure it's the least I can do to keep her happy as far as the boat is concerned. But I haven't actually designed the thing yet, much less built it... we'll see. Along the same lines, the guy on the mooring next to us has a beautiful Seguin 46... one of only 2 built with the short house. Gorgeous boat. He removed his salon table for a passage south last year... said it was always in the way... and hasn't put it back yet. But his wife is not into the boat and is rarely aboard. And we have a lot more room to play with, to get it out of the way. Zeyang, that box keel will help stiffen her but I still hope you weld some temporary stuff across inside before you roll her, and don't depend just on the wood frames to hold her shape unless you know they're awfully stout and well attached.
  4. Good quote, Zeyang. Friends of ours (3 guys) spent 11 years building a big (56') ketch, then named her Perseverance... a great name for that kind of project. Even keeping it simple, your boat is an awfully large project for 1 guy. One of the things that worked for me, once you get a little further along, is to always have 3 or more sub projects going at the same time... 1 that your planning, sourcing parts or materials, figuring out how you're going to do it, etc., a second that you're more or less in the middle of, and a third that you're winding down on... it just needs more varnish, or final install. That way when you're stuck on one you just move to one of the other 2 and don't waste too much time being unproductive. Let the one you're stuck on sit for a day or 2 and your sub conscious will figure out the answer. I think that's one of the biggest things... just having the confidence to know that sooner or later you'll figure out a way to do it. Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes, art is knowing which one's to keep. I try to spend 2-3 hours every day after work, at least 10 hours on saturday, and 6-8 on sunday, and it works for me... but I watch no TV and I don't sleep much. And in the summer I live on the boat, do hardly any work, and just enjoy her. Good luck... you've done an impressive job so far.
  5. Evans, thanks for that... I appreciate it. Oddly enough, I was just reading parts of your blog last night, and I've always admired how you forged ahead and built that purposeful, practical boat and then went out and did it. I would have contracted it out and had someone else build my hull if there had been any good metal yards around in this country in 1979, but Howdy Bailey was just starting out, as was Kanter, and Huromic was too far away. So I did it myself, and then got side tracked by life. Kids do need some security and stability, but perhaps we've given them more than they actually needed. Ah well. I was struck by something Beth wrote a few months ago, in St. Thomas: "No commute, no pollution, no cubicle, no suit, no boss, no cranky office mates, no set schedule. No car payment, no mortgage, no monthly bills... but also no health insurance, no retirement plan, no vacation days. Well, you can't have everything." Health insurance and retirement plans (especially retirement plans) are pretty over rated these days, as many of us sat and watched them go to hell in the last 18 months. Friends of ours are good friends of Fatty Goodlander, and I remember him telling a story of when they were sending their daughter off to college, standing on the deck of the boat she very tentatively brought up the idea of an allowance and supposedly he replied " well sure, if you could send us $25 or $50 a week we could use it, but we'll survive." Good luck in France.
  6. Zeyang, the guy who took 30 years to build that boat is me, and I'm the guy that suggested a possible welding sequence to you back in post 104 of this thread. There's more on our boat in the link at the bottom of this post, but I seriously need to update that web site... trouble is I'm too busy building to find the time. And Bob, I think it's absolutely true that there are 2 types of people who build boats... those who like the process, and those who see the building as a means to an end... going sailing as soon as possible. The problem is that as you get up towards 45-50', the man hours needed to finish are just about overwhelming for one person who's trying to hold down a good enough job to support a mortgage and a family, tend to that family, and still find the money and at least 25-30 hours a week, 100-120 a month, to complete the job. Half a man hour per pound of displacement is not unreasonable, for a simple build from the ground up, which in my case would work out to 20,000 man hours. But I chose to go far from simple, and have closer to 35,000 hours in the whole job. Finding those hours takes many years. I've only been able to afford paying other people for about 5,000 of them... the rest are mine. My life was quite different when I started... I knew that it was a huge project but I was making very good money flying airplanes and assumed I could pay competent help for large parts of the project. That income dried up and I found myself a couple of hundred thousand into it, with maybe 4000 hours, and no income. Now what? Just walk away, or keep going at whatever speed is doable? I chose to keep going. It takes so long working alone that everything changes during the process... of course costs go up, but design trends change, needs and wants change, gear and equipment changes, rigs, engines, everything is pretty different now from when I started, 30 years ago. But I end up with a boat I want and know, down to every last detail, and everywhere my eye comes to rest I find something that makes me smile. Plus I spent a very large amount of time on the water during those 30 years, including sailing from Halifax to Grenada, Marion-Bermuda, and 8 35 day swordfish trips to the Grand Banks in the fall. Living in New England, I feel that boatbuilding is really winter's work, and I developed a schedule that had me going as hard as possible on the boat from late september to end of May, than hang it up completely and spend every possible minute on the water in the season. Worked for me, because burn out is a real factor if you don't get away from the project... you have to just keep breaking it down into smaller sub projects and keep putting one foot in front of the other. We've been in the water 3 seasons now, and I'm still working... the first part of this winter on a laid teak and holly sole. My wife would really like a salon table, which we don't have yet, so that's probably next. So where do I stand? Well it took this long, so I guess you could say that I'm the guy that prefers building to sailing... but once we get our last kid out of college, we'll see. Meanwhile, life has been great, and I don't regret a minute of it. This is a tremendously rewarding and satisfying thing to do, but it's clearly not for everyone. Best, Bob
  7. Zeyang: nice job. I'd be a little concerned about the welding, though. I think I'd try starting at the top, as you said, and marking off each seam into comfortable increments... maybe 6-8", not 1 meter. I'd backstep each weld, and jump around constantly, always trying to keep things equal on both sides of the boat and on each seam. By backstep I mean I'd start on one increment, weld from right to left, and then skip 3 spaces and weld the next one from right to left, etc. Not sure how many I'd do before moving to the other side, but probably not very many... maybe 5. I'd hit each area with a tufted stainless wire brush on a 4 1/2" grinder immediately before I welded it. Then go back and weld the ones in between, again moving right to left with the welds and jumping to the right... that way you end up with every other one done. Then notch the ends of all those welds with an 1/8" wheel, or better yet a carbide cutter, and weld every other one in between, so you have 3 out of 4 done. Then close it up. Maybe hang the wire feed on some kind of trolley over the whole thing... it's going to be an awful lot of jumping around. You'll be seeing molten aluminum flowing in your dreams. If the whole thing seems strong enough (and it should) I think I'd try to wait to do the inside until after you roll her... that way it's all down hand. You might find, with 8 mm plate, that you can do much longer increments than 6-8", but I'd be concerned that it would do strange thing a long distance away from where you're working. You'll hear the metal talking to you as you go... strange pings, creaks, and general complaints from the material as things move. And move they will. No matter how you do it it's a lot of welding, and you don't want pinholes letting salt water into those areas where they overlap. Good luck. Best, Bob