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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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  1. Front Page: Photoshopped Foil

    the bow is to the left...
  2. Why ballasted foils ?

    Come on guys - basic physics - both wing/tees are the same so the righting arm is the combined cg of those plus the boat and combined CG of the foils isn't going to be that far off the c/line of the boat anyway, So RM is going to be displacement times c/line to centre of effort of the combined tee and arm lift vector. In effect seems pretty daft not to have had a fixed keel with a bulb of only 1-2 tons maybe for capsize resistance and get the sideforce for light airs a lot more efficiently than from the arms/tees, which will be draggy in that config. Will also be crap for maneuverability in the light non-foiling airs. Then wouldn't have needed stored power to wave the damn things around. Might have taken a few knots off the top speed but that doesn't matter two hoots for match racing. And they've already taken a few knots off with a semi rigid sail plan. Look at this thing and doesn't make much sense really, trying too hard to invent something new ( fail, as ButchDS has already done that ), keep the sailmakers happy ( why? ) make it look as though the crew is actually doing something apart from winding winches ( fail as would bet you'll see selftacking headsails when/if they are used ), match racing ( fail as won't be allowed to get too close and if non foiling will be diabolically bad ). Rant over - may all be way different when the rules themselves come out!
  3. nah...he's always been a second tier sailor but a first rate circus entertainer and their press release said as much! The stunts get way more publicity for the sponsors than the racing ever will.
  4. Team UK

    So Claughton is now ex-BAR then? Bainslie toes the party line and thinks they were 'unlucky' in bermuda? Reckon that Grant will inject some painful realism into the camp if nothing else, something that Witless certainly didn't bring to the party.
  5. Not so original - Thierry Petitjean and Butch D-S have a little project on the go already.
  6. And then you get ?time? penalties for infringing the boundary?? It's going to have to be a pretty big area to surround the craft, and so we've now lost the close quarters action that is and should be part of the match racing. Frankly I reckon they've lost the plot on the whole thing, as this is so far removed from having any trickledown to the rest of the sailing world - massive battery pack to power the foils or do you simply have a set number of raise/lower and have to use as you see fit? That's getting too close to the F1 world where most of the time the drivers are in fuel and/or tyre saving modes, and can see how that is losing out big time to MotoGP And if time penalties, then going to have to work out when it's worth taking one. Try explaining that to the masses!
  7. Leaving aside the design issues, in practical terms and the dreaded 'elf'nsafety then the SI's are going to need some rules of engagement in place to avoid potentially lethal close proximity manouevering. Underwater issues were one thing but airborne contraptions flying in towards each other really are a serious issue. No doubt that has been considered...or has it?? Can see the legal beagles having a field day on that one if there is an incident with subsequent human damage, and that would roll right back and directly into the people that designed the rule. Whatever, if say there is a 2 or 3 boat length circle required around the protagonists then what does that do for the match racing element? Overall I really don't get the impression this has been fully thought through
  8. Gitana Maxi 17

    Fan blades have erosion problems from rain and hail, hence the need for either ceramic coatings or metallic leading edges to the blades. Trailing edge is for stiffness on a thin section. Gitana foil though you can see clearly the crumple area, so one thing to figure is if the delam/peel in the aft section was responsible for that, or the consequence of something else. From the lack of any damage to the leading edge then impact is probably ruled out, so more likely to be combination of load factors both torsional and direct bend and drag loadings that has found out the structural weakness there. Superficially, would reckon the aft upper skin started to fail just around and out from the elbow, then the water would rip that off and do the rest of the visible damage. White core I would reckon is simply a well pierced machined hd foam - that allows resin migration under vac and forms resin columns in the foam between the skins. Whatever, will be an expensive fix.
  9. Gitana Maxi 17

    TJV 2015 and all of them with major hull problems. Short memories?
  10. Gitana Maxi 17

    Not the first bit of a Verdier boat to have issues and the Hugo Boss foil that broke first time out testing was not monolithic but had the multiple hollows, and then HB had the cheek to sue the foil builders. And that after all the hull failures on the new Verdier boats. Does seem he has an issue with his composite engineering. Big issue with all these foils are the transient loads which can peak at way over steady state stalled conditions and are extremely hard to predict. Then the flex on these things eventually causes micro cracking in the resin and when that stops keeping the fibres aligned then all bets are off. Lots of possible reasons for failure but trying to pin down the exact sequence and reasons for failure not easy at all. And whatever is learnt won't get out and thats for sure! Funny how all the Vendee foil failures were blamed on impacts:)
  11. Team UK

    Hope that Grant has a free hand to get rid of some of the current incumbents, and for sure he will be a lot more use than Whitmarsh in every department. Unfortunately I doubt that that will be the case and they'll be stuck with plain vanilla brigade in too many rather important ares, they'll all be superglued to their positions and hard to shift! Be interesting to see which heads roll or are promoted sideways for sure though. Smart guy though and someone like that was sorely need last time around.
  12. Middle Sea race

    Horses for courses is all - Ker 46 is an excellent upwind and downwind boat in light to medium conditions, reaching it sucks, downhill in a breeze too. Maverick sails 7-8 crew max and only wants to do the big offshores, so thats what it does and very effectively. 2 MSR races and been top spots in both, TransAtlantic too. So MSR they beat home a lot of supposedly quicker and bigger boats too. So whats the problem with that? If that's what the guy wants to do then he's got the boat to do it, if you only want to go indoor sailing and w/l racing then there are loads of boats optimised to do just that. Both the 72s retired - got to say you should have a problem with that when something that size can't deal with a bit of weather and they didn't want to do the bermuda race either - I would suggest that class needs to take a bit of a look at itself.
  13. Teams?

    They might all be good technicians but....where did they get to with the 50? Was just plain vanilla. And who are I think I am ??? Que?
  14. Teams?

    Have to say that only TNZ actually have a credible design team in place, Oracle were best of the rest by virtue of unlimited budget, BAR were bottom of the pack so they need to start again from scratch I'd reckon, Bertelli will have the pick of the good guys that are out there. And if you happen to be on a list of possible designers then you wouldn't be jumping for the first offer that came along if it was from the likes of BAR when far better options might be forthcoming. Unless you were desperate of course! Good comment from an AC winner recently when asked about BAR was that if BAR managed to keep consecutive challenges going then eventually they would win. He also added that he hoped that Ben would still be alive to see it. That went down well:) Was a comment though on the Brit challenges record and not a snipe at BAinslie.
  15. VOR 2017-18

    They'd blown the boat build time line way back with the prevarications on the boat and designer choice and then all the wasted attempts to roll it up with Imoca,. and then the build hours and cost for a way overcomplex boat I reckon finally came to attention of the board. They could see the reality when MT couldn't. Always very easy to spend other people's money and he was out of control with his visions. Judging by the interview he's been fully gagged!