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A Few Simple Rules 05/22/2017
Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
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smackdaddy
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Sounds reasonable. "Rigour" - you're too kind. On another note, unlike Brent claimed herein regarding the high resale value of brentboats... I'm sure no one here is surprised.
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That's fine. But excusing the "kind and generous" by taking the "it's not my fault" approach is not in line with the person Brent claims to be (it's what we expect him to be). So - take the cause-of-injury out of the equation and we are still at the question of what Brent will do for his injured customer who is, in his own words, "heartbroken". The game is not tarnished at all. The motivation remains the same. The potential excuses are just absent. I would encourage those who have a heart to encourage Brent to help this kid by posting such encouragement in the thread on the origamiboats forum here... https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/origamiboats/conversations/topics/34141
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Check out my sig. Even those who think I've been far too harsh on Brent - this is your opportunity to encourage something positive. What will you do with it?
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Exactly. In other words, everything from here on out for this boat is real world, and exactly the kind of stuff that Brent hasn't really done for his clients. He's just done the quick shell work and left - bragging about how fast he can "build boats". That's why this is such a perfect opportunity for him to show the world his real skills. Finding stuff in scrapyards for nothing. Buying perfect used sails for pennies on the dollar. Finishing out a respectable interior to the level we've seen with other of his customers' boats - including wiring, plumbing, woodwork, cushions, woodstove, watermaker, shackles, blocks, all of it. He can show EXACTLY how all of these things are done for his customers. As Marlin said, he's already got most everything that's needed sitting there and ready to go. The boat just needs Brent. So, what will he do? Will he spout the same old tired line, "What part of retired do you not understand?" - or will be a human being?
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See my sig below. We'll see what happens.
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From your own site (I've bolded the most important statements of Marlin's): And here is that boat that is now sitting and rotting away (among the MANY others we've shown here)... It's just another crushed BS dream in a long line of crushed BS dreams. So, you've taken this young man's money for your plans, book, DVDs etc. You've left him broke and crippled after 3 years of hard labor, with a rusting hulk that is worth nothing. He's never sailed a mile that you promised would be so cheap and easy. And judging by this reply of yours to him, you are more worried about your reputation than you are this kids injuries... SO NOW YOU ARE PERFECTLY AWARE OF A DAMAGED BRENT SWAIN CUSTOMER AND AN ABANDONED BRENT SWAIN BOAT. WHAT WILL YOU DO ABOUT IT? If you are the kind person you always brag about being (your "random acts of kindness") - then prove it. GO COMPLETELY FINISH THIS BOAT FOR THIS KID - WITH YOUR OWN MONEY THAT YOU SAY YOU HAVE SO MUCH OF AND DON'T NEED. Document the whole process here or on his blog from the second you start until the kid is averaging 9 knots to Hawaii. Do this, and you'll get some respect and credibility. You'll bring something of value to the world. This is about as good an opportunity as you'll EVER have to prove everything you claim, Brent. And it's the best possible opportunity for you to help your fellow man - and, most importantly, one of your own customers who REALLY needs it. So what are YOU going to do? Unless you do what I'm laying out above for which I will support and praise your efforts here and elsewhere, with this post I'm done with you Brent. I've conclusively proven all your lies. That's obvious. You will likely just continue to spin them as you have for decades - but I've already blown them all apart. So I'm done with that. BUT - I'VE ALSO JUST GIVEN YOU YOUR SHOT AT REDEMPTION. YOU WILL EITHER PROVE US ALL WRONG AND SHOW YOUR HUMANITY AND GENEROSITY AND PROVE YOUR CLAIMS ABOUT YOUR BOATS WITH ACTUAL EVIDENCE WHILE YOU'RE DOING IT. OR YOU WILL BE THE DUPLICITOUS, SELFISH, DOUCHEBAG WE ALL KNOW YOU TO BE. IT'S COMPLETELY UP TO YOU. This will be interesting to watch. (To all those on CA - don't let BS off this hook. This kid is worth it.)
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Remember all the times that he's slammed his own customers for "not being able to build the boat to his designs, therefore he shouldn't be held responsible for it"? Look at his own boat, then look his plans. He can't even do it himself!
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You got it Slap. And Brent is also lying in the post you quoted about how and why Bob started in over on Brent's origami site. The only reason Bob went over there in the first place was an outrageous libel about Bob that Brent posted over there after he got booted from SN. So, since Brent was gone from SN, Bob went over to confront him...and one of their own members confirms what the little bastard said... Bob stated his position, got a few of the chickens there ruffled, then left. That was it. I was amazed at his restraint. He attacked no one. So you can rest assured that the little bastard is lying about pretty much everything regarding Bob. He's a flaming douche. No question. And it's now been proven on virtually every sailing site out there. What really started ALL this was Brent trying to pass himself off as a designer in the Wolfenzee thread on SN. Bob was already participating in it with Jeff and a couple of others - all of whom clearly knew what they were doing. It was a very educational conversation that was just enjoyable to read - kind of a Masters Session. Brent then sidled in and started trying to insert himself as an "equal". Bob even supported a few of Brent's early comments and tried to include him. There was no animus whatsoever. Bob was very gracious - and Brent felt important. But, as you can well imagine, it wasn't long at all until Brent started saying some really stupid stuff - the best one being the classic 182 degrees of "positive stability". As you know, Bob doesn't suffer fools so he called Brent out on it - not an attack, just a firm explanation. And, as you can also imagine, Brent got embarrassed at his own crapping the bed in front of so many people, and in front of one of the best yacht designers in a generation who can easily call him on it, and so Brent turned to the only cover he's ever known: lying and attacking and spouting his age old BS. He turned on Bob with a vengeance. Brent's never been able to let it go. He envies the hell out of Bob. There's no question about it. Bob's success drives Brent Swain crazy. To him, it's not supposed to be that way. Brent is supposed to be the smart and successful one - not Bob. But he's not. Clearly. So, just as Brent did 35 years ago with Lundstrom and Curtis and Richtler - Brent has decided to insert himself into the world of design in a desperate attempt to be relevant. He's glommed onto Bob like a remora trying to use Bob's renown for his own benefit - just like he did with the real successes in origami. In Brent's world, any exposure for Brent Swain is "fame". He's the "Master" and he just needs the world to understand that. So it all goes into his scrap book - the one he's been cutting and pasting since 1980. Personally, I'm glad Bob puts up with it. Because the more Brent goes on, the more he erases any shred of respectability and dignity his legacy might have retained - which means less people will be suckered into it. The truth comes out. And that's always good. So, let him go. He's just winding down. Hopefully he'll find some peace when he's lied himself out.
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Finally - Brent provides his set of lines and stability study for every BS Yacht ever built.
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As it so happens, I did put together a bit of a compendium way back in 2013 on SN when we were going 'round there with the little bastard: BS Yachts Marketing Program This was, I believe, after he slandered your wife, Bob, and before he publicly libeled you on his origami site after he'd been banned on SN for the last time (which goes against another lie he told in this thread about your coming to that site). Of course that was all before Semi brought in that Curtis article here that led to the rest of the REAL origami story that blew Brent's decades of lying wide open. The above link and this thread is about as comprehensive a collection of the little bastard's lies as you could possibly get. Brent Swain had a lot of people fooled for a very long time. But he will go down in origami history as a pretty sad footnote. I really do pity him. It seemed he had some potential. Origami boats should always bring to mind the names of the greats - Lundstrom, Curtis, Tanton, Bushnell, Schaler, etc. Let's talk about those guys in this thread since they actually did something of value for the cause of origami boats. Brent really doesn't belong on this list or in this thread.
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There is so much evidence in this thread alone - even this PAGE alone - it's ridiculous. There's no reason to rehash it so you can simply lie more, Brent. Bob is exactly right. You lie. You have a serious problem and zero credibility. That's specific enough. I pity you.
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Well done sir.
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No, Curtis was building before you and so was Lundstrom. That's already been proven and this 1984 article of yours does nothing to change that. And as for these "9" unicorn boats you claim in the article - I don't need any clairvoyance. The author is quoting you. And you are a liar. Therefore the article is worthless. That's patently clear to everyone here. Taking it further, his statement about this origami thing being "Swain's technique" simply proves that he only relied on your word - he did no research of his own. So, again, you lose. Next question.
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Actually no, Brent, you're wrong again. First, Lundstrom was building origami in the '70s - working out his patent which was filed several years before this article. You were still in origami diapers. Second, the fact that a "magazine article" - which is derived from an interview with YOU, a proven liar - states any number regarding anything is no proof of anything at all. You built YOUR boat in 1984 and I'm confident that's what the photo is - your first boat. Beyond that, you simply told Jim Russel a boat number you pulled out of your butt (as you usually do) to make yourself seem legit and he printed it. He should have known better. In any case, at the time of the article, Curtis was already building steel origami. In fact, worse than the false number of these origami boats of yours, you told the author that it was "Swain's technique, possibly originating in Holland..." - which you also know is a complete lie. So this article is simply MORE proof of you trying to insert yourself into the growing origami narrative with your typical dishonest BS. That's exactly what we've been saying all along and this is simply more proof of that. So thanks for that. I love this part though..."spoken by an unpretentious, 34-year-old boat builder and welder". That's rich.
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Yeah - well, you're lying about all that too, Brent. Surprise, surprise. Bob didn't join your origami site until 2014. And when he did, it was only his responding to your stupidity that upset a couple of your chickens. Even so, many of your own members asked Bob to stick around. Here is just one example: And now your site is dead. Even so, you had been spewing your stupidity there about Bob for at least 10 years before he ever showed up there. Here is one of your idiotic posts with your tired old claims from 2004: And another from 2007... Actually, you're doing plenty wrong, Brent. And lying (as you ALWAYS do) doesn't help anything.
