smackdaddy

This is exactly right. And Proa certainly seems to be the leading member of the BrentBuddies© . Sorry Proa, just because you refuse to look at the facts because of your childish anger at Bob doesn't mean you get to preach the ridiculous stupidity you're preaching above. You really are as bad as Brent Swain. There's no question about it. And this is why I think Soak is right on with his post. So you now have a choice. You can drop it and go back to posting whatever boring and whiny stuff it is you post elsewhere (just like Brent always had the opportunity to do). Or you can keep at this and hang yourself on that same pinata string Brent seemed to relish because in his twisted mind "people could see him better that way". Well, we see you, Proa. Now it's your move.

Go away Proa. You whine WAY too much and you're embarrassing yourself.

Proper homage to Brent Swain is a forceful boot in the nuts - repeatedly. And I'd spill my scotch if I raised my glass. That will never do.

It's not a controversial proposition. I don't know why you'd think that it is. Maybe you're stuck on the definition of "tough environment" - whatever that is in relation to cruising, which is what we're talking about here?

I fully agree that glass boats are not built or designed for repeatedly bashing into stuff. So I try not to do that. And I even agree that if you're going to be on the hook in ice, getting hit by stuff, and hitting stuff - steel is a far better alternative. No argument here.

I have a similar rudder quadrant on our 40. It's stout. It was more the Raymarine AP that wasn't fit for offshore work really... Who knows what broke that quadrant in the Vision, but as RK said, it's Edson, not "Hunter". So it's in many other boats as well. As for the ports, mine are plastic (Lewmar I think) as well - (aluminum frame with plastic lite and dogs). Sure there is some crazy scenario that could possibly happen as you describe, but I'm not too worried. Again, I can't speak to your 28. I had a Catalina 27 that I would NEVER have taken offshore. Maybe the H28 is similar. But I'm perfectly confident in our 40 for pretty much anything in typical seasonal offshore sailing in "normal" latitudes. I'm not going to say she's a "perfect" boat. I've had to maintain various problems (blisters, delamination in the rudder, etc.) - but overall, I'm very happy with her, even compared with other more "bluewater" boats I've sailed.

I generally agree with that Jim. I've just seen SO many of these kinds of over-generalizations that I really don't think they are at all helpful. I think you have to be very specific with the points you're making to retain any credibility on the subject. For example, my Legend 40 is/was rated for offshore (blue water) work according to Hunter. And I have no doubt she could handle most anything she encountered out there. That said, for extended passages there are several things I would upgrade - e.g. - she's light on fuel/holding tankage, so a macerator (which we have) and larger fuel tank would be good. She carries 100 gallons of water, but I'd add a watermaker. I have a manual windlass which I'd replace with an electric. Stuff like that. But overall, even at almost 30 years old, I trust her as not being a "weak boat". Yes, I'm maybe be a bit more conservative with her than I would be with a brand new boat, but not by much (though I wouldn't really know as I've never sailed a brand new boat). The point is when you get down to REALLY comparing specifics on these various boats the "marina queen" generalizations that Brent and others love to make fade away pretty quickly. As you know, that's been a bit of passion for me for a while.

Can you explain what you mean by "weak" in this regard Semi? There is so much evidence out there of people sailing BeneJeneHunterLinas to all the places you mention (and many more including the Southern Ocean) without the boats falling apart and sinking that seems to seriously belie your statement here.

I've only known Steve and his family through the forums. Great people.

As I've said many times before, I've been going back and forth with Brent Swain for 8 years or so on various forums (Sailnet, Anything-Sailing, and now here). I started out in the beginning as a defender of his ideas and approaches. Like others above, I saw some merit in some of the things he espoused. But, as time went on, I began to see who and what he really was. This took less than a year. Then I started questioning him about the obviously flawed stuff he was spouting. And he did exactly the same thing you've seen here. So, about 4 years ago on SN, I took the time to put together a collection of his false claims, etc. I called it the BS Yachts Marketing Program. What's interesting is that much of the stuff I assumed in that post - but for which I didn't have real evidence at the time - is now proven by the evidence we all uncovered in this thread. Brent Swain has simply proven, yet again, what a despicable human being he is. But this time, he's sunk even deeper to a hellish low. He deserves zero sympathy. So, I've been at this a while. And I've done so because I wanted newbs to know what this man and his "product" was all about. Did I push things a bit too far at times (e.g. - calling him and idiot, or a douchebage, etc.)? Possibly - for a tea party atmosphere. But I've never claimed to be polite, especially at tea parties. I'm a sailor. So, I couldn't possibly care less what these sanctimonious dudes are saying now that Brent Swain has been finally proven. Whisper's summation is precisely correct, as is Sloop's FIFY. And, most importantly, Bob is right about you chuckleheads that point fingers and throw bibles from the door. You're hypocrites - and too weak to call things for what they are. It's really that simple.

I just saw this. I'm really sorry that I ever got involved with BS. Brent Swain is a weak, despicable, human being who deserves to rot away in his steel shell stewing in lonely bitterness. That has now been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. His attack on Bob's wife was one thing. This attack on his late son is sickening. Truly. Anyone that EVER thinks about buying anything from Brent Swain, or building one of Brent Swain's boats, or even buying one that has already been built - will carry this despicable banner of this pathetic man with them. I'm done. The "fun" is over. Flick the prick.

You say you tell the truth? You never tell the truth. And this goes against everything you always spout. So yeah, you're lying. I don't care what this imaginary Rob Nickle has to say.

No you didn't. You've said repeatedly that you think stuff like that is a waste of time. So, also as you've said many, many times, you'd never do it for a customer. You're lying again. But nice try taking credit for quality you couldn't possibly produce.

Finally, some sensible lifelines on an origami steel boat. And a much better pilot house than most I've seen on the far inferior BS Yacht models. Hell, they've even radiused the corners everywhere! Obviously they ignored most everything BS preaches and ended up with a relatively okay steel boat. Must be a Buschnell or a Schaler design/build.

Let's be honest...Brent has nowhere else to go. He's been banned from every sailing, design, and building forum out there. And his own forum is completely dead. So this is the only place he's got. I'm cool with that. Every pinata needs a string.