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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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About ajbram

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    Great Lakes
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    Dark rum and going fast

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  1. X 24 class is a simplified J 24

    If the desire really is simple, cheap, accessible, and the idea is to base something on the J/24 since there are so many cheap ones sitting around right now, why not just leave it alone? If the idea is to get more people out for phrf events, there is nothing wrong with a J/24 as is. The boat that won the C division beercans at our club this year is a J/24 that the owners bought for $100. A couple new class sails and consistent crew, and they were competitive. Maybe the idea should be to increase awareness that there are boats available that would get interested people out on the water for a minimum investment. If the idea is to create a one-design class that capitalizes on the J/24s that are out there and readily available, but friendlier for shorthanded crews, I would still argue that getting rid of the genoa, and then trying to compensate for the loss of sail area by incrementally reducing weight and functionality will just result in slowed-down J/24 one-design racing in anything but heavy air. On the traveler issue, I agree that the short traveler is pretty ineffective in heavy air, but in light air getting the boom above centerline (even if it's just a bit) for twist is critical. Taking this off the boat, along with several of the other "simplifying" modifications just rob the boat of any light air performance.
  2. X 24 class is a simplified J 24

    Asym on a sprit sails hotter angles. You need crew weight to keep it flat. Deck-mounted articulating sprit allows you to sail deeper, which might be better for a J24
  3. X 24 class is a simplified J 24

    So you're talking about max crew weights. This is really only beneficial when it's windy. Our most successful time racing a Kirby 25, we were 3 up totalling ~520lb. If it was blowing we flew the #3. If it was 11kt or less we flew the #1. In big air a J/24 with a jib is enough fun, it's when it gets light that it's going to feel really sticky with no #1. I don't see why "simplifying" has to mean "making it slower."
  4. Caption Contest

    Vlad the "in-sailor."
  5. X 24 class is a simplified J 24

    +1.... increase RM, A-kite on that boat with a retrieval line and you wouldn't need anyone on the foredeck. Could be sailed by 3 pretty easily. Less crew + less sail = less fun. Less crew + more RM + more downwind SA = same amount of upwind fun + more upwind fun = more net fun.
  6. X 24 class is a simplified J 24

    Also, bolting on a keel bulb can't be any more expensive than replacing a deck.
  7. X 24 class is a simplified J 24

    Lower c/g = less reliance on crew weight for righting moment. I'm no engineer, but a 300lb bulb would probably be as helpful as 2 dudes on the rail. If you want to keep class sails and make a J/24 still competitive with less crew, I see this as a way to maintain performance. Jib-only, no traveler just helps to depower the boat. Saving ~150# by removing deck gear probably doesn't compensate for the loss of horsepower from not having a genoa.
  8. X 24 class is a simplified J 24

    this Class jib uphill.... big fuck-off A-kite downhill.
  9. X 24 class is a simplified J 24

    Having raced J/24s and a number of things that used to rate level-is with J/24s (Kirby 25, Merit 25, Capri 25) in point to point races as well as 'round the cans, I can attest that jib only is probably not competitive unless the rating took a major bump. Beamy, short waterline things like to be sailed flat, and only have an advantage when you can surf/plane. For us the formula used to be throw up the 155 and get a few beefy dudes on the high side. Shorthanded, jib-only in big air in point-to point races, we would get passed by boats with lower aspect ratio sailplans that had less heeling moment for the same amount of horsepower, and waterlined by things like C&C 30s who we owed 4 sec/mile. In lighter air things like U20s just stomped us downwind. Without changing the rig or putting a blob of lead at the bottom of the keel, I can't see a way of making crew weight a non-factor. Jib only is just going to be underpowered.
  10. Caption Contest

    4th mode realized?
  11. X 24 class is a simplified J 24

    Why get rid of the traveler?
  12. X 24 class is a simplified J 24

    http://okcboatclub.com/files/phrf/class-rules/ic-24.pdf ?
  13. Why don't more people race?

    I applaud you for finding a solution that is applicable beynd your own boat. Many others just complain about low numbers on the start line.
  14. Why don't more people race?

    Agree 100%. This goes for everyone. Not just poor people. So many people we have brought out with us sare like "Sailing... meh..." Then we get the boat rolling and they're hooked.
  15. Why don't more people race?

    +1 on building a team. The crew I sail with has been a work in progress for several years and in that time the owner has had 3 different boats. Originally (and long before I moved here) the crew was a bunch of friends who learned how to sail together. Many of them are still on the boat. From that core on the original J/29, things progressed. The owner upgraded to a J/92. Our current main trimmer joined the crew several years ago, after a lifetime of beach cat racing and results started getting better. in 2014 several crew members had kid/job/family issues that kept them from racing and results got worse. The boat sat on the hard for a little while at that point - future uncertain. I moved to the area at the end of the 2014 season and started hunting for a ride for 2015. I heard from a friend that there was a J/92 that needed some crew and contacted the owner. We had a couple big regatta wins that summer and started being competitive in our Wednesday series, which is very competitive and includes a singlehand Transpac winner and winners of multiple Trans-Superiors and Macs. By 2016 we were winning regularly, and also winning the post-race. Beer consumption per capita, good snacks on board, reggae music, and swimming/diving from the spreaders were all at heroic levels. At that time, the owner (under consultation from a few of the afterguard) decided that with good, consistent core crew, it was a good time to get a really fast boat and go have some fun - so he bought a Melges 32. This was a quantum leap in our racing history. We knew we needed more people on board to keep us flat in anything but light air PHRF rules limit crew to 10 on our boat, so we needed to increase our crew pool to hedge on the side of having 10 for heavy air nights and have peopel not get pissed at being turned away. So we brought friends and family who were mildly interested out for booze cruise pleasure sails on the 32. It was a little like dealing drugs. Bring someone who has only ever sailed on a 4ksb out on a beautiful day and get them doing 15kt with a beer in hand, then tell them they can have that anytime they want, as long as it is on a Wednesday night, and they might not get the call all the time. We almost instantly had 16-20 available anytime we needed, and not a certifiable asshole in the bunch. We also scored a major coup when the friend who recommended this crew to me decided to leave the Farr 30 he had been racing with to come and be our tactician, citing the fact that not only were all of his friends crewing on our boat, but we also had craft beer and hot, wood-fired pizzas instead of Bud light and Subway. WE also knew that this was going to be a major learning curve, and all of the key crew set to doing our homework - trim, crew position, rapid transitioning between planing and soak mode. We have an inordinate number of engineers and scientists on board, and configured electronics to help speed the learning curve of a new boat - helping us know when we were fast enough. WE automated spreadsheets to build us custom polars as the season progressed. We did all of these things of our own volition because as a team, we wanted to win. The owner was on board for whatever we wanted to do, but it was ALWAYS a team project. We showed up early on race days and got out on the lake early to see where the shifts were and tune the boat. And we won.... a lot. A couple regatta wins, almost every Wednesday race, almost every weekend nearshore, Boat-of-the-year. A couple of bitter old bastards at the awards dinner had the gall to tell us they thought we bought the trophies by showing up with a hot boat after winning BOTY, but a few more knowledgeable owners gave us props for the effort we had put in to learning a new boat, developing the program, and building a good team. One actually said "Anytime you have extra crew looking for a ride, send them my way. Your 6th best guy is better than my best guy." But we still did all of the other fun things that we do as a group of friends. It's probably the only Melges 32 that has been anchored stern-towards for waterfront concerts. It is probably the only one that is subjected to semi regular family sails with kids and dogs. We show up at regattas with a ping pong table and cornhole boards in our the enclosed sail trailer. We win the party. Winning is fun. Building a team and working towards a goal with a group of good friends is fun. Winning when that hard work pays off is awesome.