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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

      After fifteen years of volunteer moderation at SA, I will no longer be part of the moderation team. The decision to step aside is mine, and has been some time in the works but we did not wish to announce it in advance for a number of reasons. It's been fun, but I need my time back for other purposes now. The Underdawg admin account will not be monitored until further notice, as I will be relinquishing control of it along with my administrative privileges. Zapata will continue on as a moderator, and any concerns or issues can be directed to that account or to the Editor until further notice. Anyone interested in helping moderate the forums should reach out to Scot by sending a PM to the Editor account. Please note that I am not leaving the community, I am merely stepping aside from Admin responsibilities and privileges on the site.

Joakim

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  1. Yes, if R17 was valid (L got the overlap from clear behind within two boat lenghts and after the preparatory signal). R17 does not limit W.
  2. No, they are not conflicting. Yes you are limited not to sail above your proper course, but since there is no proper course before the starting signal, this does not limit anything until the starting signal.
  3. The boat slipping into the gap is limited by R17, if she established the overlap from clealy behind to W. But there is no proper course before starting signal, thus she is free to luff until the starting signal. After the starting signal she is not allowed to sail above her proper course (most likely close hauled) as long as R17 is still valid for her.
  4. Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "in a drifter", but yes there is a proper course for boats 50 m behind the starting line after their starting signal. That proper course naturally involves crossing the starting line.
  5. What do you want to discuss about it? Note it is a separate paragraph under header "Start" and has nothing to do with proper course. There is a proper course when the boats starting signal has been given no matter where the boat is or has it started or not.
  6. In the random's link it is clear that "before the start" equals to "before her starting signal" and not to "before starting".
  7. So you are saying the rules work differently with umpires on the water? I have never noticed that, but I have sailed only a few weekends with umpires on the water. I can understand that "proper course" is rather vague term that may need some argumentation. In non-beat cases it has always been enough to have some rather vague explanation to your course, which might be clearly off the next mark or clearly higher than the other boats idea of the best VMG on a run. Even in an OD fleet one boat may think it is best to run dead downwind and another thinks jibing 80 degrees is the fastests. Do you suggest that these cases would be violations of R17 with umpires on the water? However on a beat close hauled is quite easy to determine within +-5 degrees or so. So it's easy to see when a boat is sailing above its best VMG on that tack. But it is very easy to find arguments that the other tack would be better. 5 deg header, more wind on the other side of the course, a boat in front disturbing air etc. And even more so near the layline. It is seldom a good idea to be on the layline far from the mark and even more so even slightly over the layline. But according to that case, you must be clealy over-standing the mark before you can sail above close hauled while under R17. Also C4 deals with this and penalizes L for sailing above close hauled.
  8. Did you read the rest of that case: "Question 2 What should the call be if due to shifty winds and/or rough seas it is not clear whether the boats are over-standing the mark? Answer 2 Penalize both. It is not yet clear that Y's only proper course is on the other tack. Y breaks rule 17 when she sails above her proper course (close-hauled) without promptly sailing astern of B. If B could have responded to the luff and kept clear, but either did not respond or did not respond enough, she breaks rule 11." That says quite clearly that it is not enough on a beat that the other tack is faster, it needs to be the only way to the mark. It is not even enough that you think you are on a layline. It needs to be clear that you are over-standing the mark thus well above layline. When you tack normally, you don't sail above close hauled for a longer time, you just quite quickly turn pass the wind.
  9. On a beat your proper course is most often close hauled with best VMG (to wind). Sailing above that is sailing above your proper course. Then in some extreme cases when your VMG to mark is negative like clearly over-standing the layline, it could be that your proper course no longer is close hauled on that tack.
  10. Why is there no information about the course and speed or even the destination of Fitzgerald? USN may keep their secrets, but surely there are several ships and Japanese Coast Guard who have spotted it on radar and could share some information. If I was working for the press, I would call some of the ships shown near by in the VesselFinder video.
  11. That's an interesting case. They seem to make a new definition "only proper course", which seems to be different from the normal definition of "proper course". So in this case it is not enough that it could be faster to get to the next mark by tacking. It has to be the "only proper course", which means it is clear that the current tack can't be seen as the proper course. At least that's how I read the answer to questions 1 and 2. It must be clear that they are over-standing the mark. Otherwise L breaks L (if she cant sail astern of W). In many other cases it is clearly said that "proper course" can be different to two boats in the same position. E.g. one thinks there is more wind on one side of the course and the other thinks the opposite. So it seems based on this case that you are not allowed to luff for a tack based on proper course while under R17 unless it is an extreme case like clearly over-standing a mark.
  12. On a beat R17 most often comes into play after the start or mark rounding with OD boats. On a handicap fleet it can also happen in the middle of the beat. Let's say you are L and R17 is "on". Why would you luff? To keep W behind you? If that's the reason, it's not your proper course. If you claim your proper course was to tack, then you really need to try to tack and tack as soon as you can. So you can't force W to tack and then wait for a while in order to not end up having the former W in your leebow. And you can't turn back to close hauled once W dropped nicely so you got a good leebow position. On a beat it is very easy to convince PC that the other tack was faster way to reach the upwind mark. It doesn't need to be the actual case, all that is needed is that you had a reason to believe so. So maybe you saw a better wind or the clouds looked to you like the other side will be more favorable. In the situation above you are not even allowed to pinch unless you can explain why that would have been necessary in the absence of W. Say you rounded a mark and W had the inner position. After rounding you are on W's leebow and you would like to smoke her away by sailing a bit higher than you would normally do. You are not allowed to do that unless there is another reason (e.g. keeping your lane with the boat in front of you).
  13. So according to your interpretation you are always allowed to luff head to wind on a beat (regarding R17 and proper course), since it is easy to claim that you felt like the other tack is more favorable at the moment. I didn't find any case about it, but I would be surprised, if that's the correct interpretation.
  14. Say L and W are the only boats on near by and L is limited not to sail above proper course by R17. L thinks her proper course is to tack. If she can tack without W needing to take avoiding actions, she can do so. But she can't luff W claiming she did so in order to sail proper course. Or maybe she could in an extreme situation where sailing close hauled would be worse than moving nowhere head to wind. Luffing is not something L would do in absence of W, thus it is not her proper course. There could be a third boat, which is the cause of L wanting to luff and thus make it L's proper course.
  15. The rule 17 is removed in match racing rules (appendix C2.8).