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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

GregLynn

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About GregLynn

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    greg@glform.com
  1. Torqeedo Report

    For close to 2 years I have a Torqeedo Cruise 4.0 in a wet box amidships just forward of the mast in Girlfriend, a 2.5t, 42' long & 32' wide trimaran. This makes for good weight placement and it guarantees the engine stays in the water once the main is up and we start sailing slowly which it wouldn't be off the transom. It moves the boat at 6-7 knots at full throttle and has good torque to get it on and off the dock. It does not satisfy the local ORCA requirements for 15 or 30 miles of range at the square root of the waterline. We tried to make the case for 20 miles range at 5 knots rather than 5-6 miles range at 7 but to no avail. Many multihull owners in Southern California have had to either carry a duplicate gasoline outboard or swap the Torqeedo for combustion for this reason. We mostly cruise and even in the lightest air would sail faster than we motor so we have stayed with the Torqeedo and only race in PHRF events. We are on our third remote throttle, the first two have failed inexplicably, all resulting in tows. I carry a 4th now as a spare. The engine is advertised and we were assured it was submersible. Not that it is ever submerged but in a swell in the wet box it sometimes gets splashed. The connection to the engine is by exposed terminals and if they get wet they arc and fry the controller. This happened once resulting in another tow. It was explained later that the engine is submersible... but only if disconnected from power. Their advertising has since changed. We have a whole series of work around methods for this and have not had a problem since but it is a source of concern when crossing large wakes or burying the bow in a swell or wave when motoring. I was told by the US rep that this issue has been remedied in the latest Cruise 4.0 engines. Finally we have had failures of 2 chargers (one for each battery) . One was under warranty the other failed after 13 months. Two of us are on a first name basis with the local Torqeedo warranty repair shop in Long Beach. Between that and the fact that ORCA applies extra rules beyond the normal coast guard and ISAF regulations I am not sure I would do it again. Might have been better to accept the extra drag and extra weight of a saildrive or shaft drive and a diesel somewhere in the middle of the boat.
  2. They are +12' long so the windward foil always needs to be raised.
  3. The crossover where it starts to benefit is +/-6 kts of boat speed and we hardly ever go below 8 even in the lightest air when other boats are motoring as we have a lot of rig. Up to high teens of boat speed the foils keep most of the boat in the water, in the mid 20s there isn't much left in the water but there is enough that it is very stable and predictable. We have averaged above 28kts over several miles and then the boat skims and has a very different dynamic where it feels like it is on the edge. To some maybe that is when the boat gets lively but for me then it is squirrelly. Below 22kts of boat speed at any point of sail and we give the tiller to anybody on the boat as it's very stable in foil assist mode. What is impressive is how the foils slide the boat to windward on a beat. In 12kts tws the boat points a little lower than a monohull but over the ground crabs sideways so we point like monohull upwind only at 15-17kts of boat speed. The real benefits of foil assist for us is upwind for both speed and height. The only time the foils don't make sense it while we motor out of the marina, once we start sailing there is never a time they don't add speed and stability. Downside is raising and dropping the foils on a 40' 2.5 ton trimaran is exhausting if you try and race around the cans; I wouldn't recommend it. We have to slow the boat down to below 4kts if we want to drop the foils with 2 strong people. The foils make the boat impossible to sail single-handed, at least for me. Otherwise it would be easy to sail solo.
  4. FWIW from the numbers above, stats are: L: 11.89m, SA : 110 m2, Displ: 2500 kg, Bruce Number 1.94, Base Speed: 14.5 knots. And max speed would be double Base Speed. And with a 104m2 LW Genoa, to make it consistent with the other boats on the data base: SA: 179m2, Bruce Number 2.49, Base Speed: 17.2 knots. So if they can do it for the weight, it is comparable to the (all) Carbon3 in terms of performance, but with much more accommodation. In addition to learning how much foil down we need (we find that they are between 75% and 100% down on almost all points of sail and in all conditions) we are moving the foils on Girlfriend forward in their case and pitching them slightly by shimming the top and bottom openings in the case with UHMWP blocking. From the renderings it looks like the boards will be difficult to adjust as mast rake and lift from the foils gets dialed in. It's good to have a few inches of play available for moving the foils around, not under sail but as the boat gets optimized. Our curved foils with horizontal tabs started in the same spot as this boat relative to the mast and we are moving them forward a few inches in front of the mast's center of rotation. Other than a 3' offset of the main hull and floats fore and aft, curved foils and 250% float volume these specs are identical to Girlfriend's. We may have more lift from the curved foils to keep the bow up (2 tons at moderate boat speed) and as first time multihull sailor foil position and float volume has kept us safe.
  5. textile forestay

    I use the Antal snatch blocks/hooks for all 4 tack lines on a 3 ton trimaran with a +60' rig. Loads in excess of a ton. Three of the lines are 2:1 and one of them is 3:1 and they hold up well, don't chafe the lines and lines slide through them easily under load. I recommend them.
  6. Dynex Dux vs. New England STS

    Sorry, my mistake. I meant to type .5%. But now that I check my math it is more like 1% as the headstay is 70' and it has crept close to 14" in 4 months. We don't have turnbuckles, the line terminates on Colligo fittings at both ends with the top on a loop around a dog bone in the mast and the bottom lashed.
  7. Dynex Dux vs. New England STS

    I use the Marlow Max99 for a headstay and shrouds and it has much more creep than we expected, close to 5% now after 6 months. So I will go to EC6 for the headstay. John Franta claims the DynaDux has less creep so I would talk to him. Where creep isn't an issue Max99 is the greatest. Very happy with it. All our halyards are Max99. Marlow's Grand Prix line is able to put in hoist marks, diameter increases and all kind of trick details that are much appreciated. The ability to size down diameter due to strength makes the Max99 competitive in pricing; sometimes cheaper. Using less of a stronger material is always good and often economical.
  8. Rolex Wild Oats XI

    Maybe a hull on each side to go with all those appendages?
  9. Bieker-53

    Looks great. Really like the driving and trimming positions not being separated by a living room and kitchen!
  10. Gunboat G4 Foiler

    45 seconds in: "FAST" "960 NM in 6 days" note: 960 miles / (6days x 24hrs.) = 6.7 knots average speed
  11. Bieker-53

    Can't compare a Volvo 70 to a racer cruiser catamaran. The Mercedes dealer will tell you their AMG sedan is just like an F1 car too but its salesmanship. Recently, a much heavier version of an Orma 60 trimaran with a short rig (Paradox) finished more than 10 hours ahead of a Gunboat (Phaedo) in a 2 day race: http://www.rorc.org/raceresults/2013/rc600-multihull01.html
  12. Bieker-53

    A better comparison is the Beiker 53 will have amenities similar to but less than a Gunboat 55 and performance that is much better but not as good as the GunboatG4 (if they can hit the advertised weight by working with a yard experienced with cooking pre-preg Nomex and if they build the interiors in something lighter than plywood).
  13. Gunboat G4 Foiler

    I said fully foiling not full of foils. In videos that haven't had the playback speed doubled it is clear that the boat is not fast even during the moments it gets all its hulls out of the water momentarily: If the foils get so large that their induced drag approaches or exceeds the drag of the hull(s) they are lifting then what's the point of foiling? IMHO, the renders of the G4 are already looking too big and draggy.
  14. Gunboat G4 Foiler

    It will be the first offshore fully foiling boat unless you think of Hydroptere as an ocean going boat. Pretty surprising proposition given their current clients and products.
  15. Gunboat G4 Foiler

    2. C-FOIL DAGGERBOARDS: When you achieve a 2.4 ton displacement, lifting foils make a significant contribution to performance. The C-foil daggerboards provide lift, reduce drag, and keep things safe when pressed downwind. Thanks to their symmetric shape, both foils can be left down. There is no need to raise or lower the boards when tacking or jibing.