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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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About gavparker

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  1. If you're coming to Perth, Nedlands Yacht Club would have the strongest H16 fleet probably in the world. Their top sailors regularly sit in the top 5 at worlds. The F18 fleet at Jervoise Bay sailing club is also strong with a beautiful sailing location. PM me if you'd like some specifics.
  2. Yesterday, a guy who we beat nearly every race last year sailed straight past us on a deck sweeper that he'd never used before. We sailed against a Brewin DS with a top level national sailor and a Goodall DS with a competitive state level sailor on the weekend. We sailed our Edge with 2 year old Goodalls that have been competitive...up until now. The Goodall DS was incredibly powerful in 5-10 knots. Glenn sailed in our lee after rounding the bottom mark and had to tack away because he was catching up to us too quickly, NOT because he was gassed and slowing down. Never seen it before. He won that race convincingly. I'll think Glenn will agree he even surprised himself how much speed he had uphill. The Brewins were quick but didn't seem as quick in the light. Time will tell if it is a setting issue that can fixed. There was talk that the boom on the Goodall helps keep the sail stable in the light. Probably has some merit. The next two races were in 10-12 knots. This time James on his Brewins got into their groove and blew us away. In the last race they were 2 minutes in front after 15 minutes of racing. We spent most of last season finishing within 10-20 seconds of each other. The Goodalls kept doing their thing but we stayed in touch. We would catch them downhill, Glenn would pass us uphill. Step and repeat each leg. We estimate there's at least 3% more speed on Glenn's C2 with Goodall DS'ers. 30 minute race = 1800 seconds. 3% = 54 seconds which is what we were beating Glenn by last season most races. We were racing the same rig we used at the nationals, know it's fast and know what settings we needed. During racing we were working very hard on making the boat go fast. We got towelled by both DS'ers in light to mid - it was the Goodalls first use and the Brewins have been used for a week. I can only imagine how much faster they'll be once the settings are sorted and the breeze is on. The Brewin DS has enough space out the back for the crew to squeeze through if needed in a crash tack. I don't think that would be possible on the Goodall DS. My brother went around the front of the mast every tack to practice for when our DS arrive. I honestly didn't notice it and he seemed to manage well enough as a 43 year old. But it was light and low chop. He did seem slower out onto the wire than when he goes under the boom. So to summarise again - Yesterday, a guy who we beat nearly every race last year sailed straight past us on a deck sweeper that he'd never used before.
  3. F18 ownership costs

    They're both great boats. Need to sail them a little differently upwind. C2 you want that leeward nose bow down and really driving the boat forward. On the Windrush Edge we're standing a lot further back getting the foils to do the work for us. The rocker lines are different on the boats so they react differently. Downwind is where the Edge stands out. You can drive it so much harder than any other F18 I've seen. This is due to the rocker and also the V at the transom. The boat rocks back into a groove and never feels like nose diving. Pic attached is Brett Burvill (builder) and Ryan Duffield winning the Australian nationals in Sydney a couple of years ago. That's the typical attitude of the boat downwind. Absolute joy to sail. The other plus with Edges is the build quality. Brett makes every hull himself and they're bullet proof. Workmanship is outstanding. He's getting demand in Europe as well as Australia. I think he's building 8 boats right now that are already sold.
  4. F18 ownership costs

    No mate. Haven't seen one other than in brochures.
  5. F18 ownership costs

    F18's are the Nascar's of cat sailing. Overbuilt to make weight so the hulls last forever. Class rules keep extrusions affordable and the sails durable - you can be competitive at a nationals with a 3 year old main and jib. So running costs are low. Buy a well looked after second hand boat and all you'll have to do is swap out the occasional block and change out the dyneema every couple of years. Spinnakers are about the only things that age too quickly but that's the same for any class. Great class with great sailing. Enjoy! I've owned a Hobie Tiger, C2 and now a Windrush Edge. A good second hand C2 or Nacra will be an excellent entry point. I don't think you'll find a second hand Edge in Europe but there's another container load heading their shortly. Like Sam has said above - Wildcats are difficult to get into a groove and there's not enough volume in the nose. Tigers are an out of date hull shape and technically slower. Cirrus R are fast in strong breeze but sticky in light with their hull shape. It's a great class and the only one I can think of where any manufacturer has an opportunity to win a world title - it's about the sailors at the end of the day.
  6. Too many Gav's in this dang town...:-) Gav C is always quick. It seems the DS has a much easier time changing gears in gusts - simply accelerates instead of healing. He mentioned no problem with the crew during tacks, although the crew is an aspiring N15 world champ so he was always going to be fine. Not sure about the crews that aren't sailing 3 times a week. Time will tell. My DS is on order so I'll give a first hand review in a few weeks.
  7. Mainsheet systems aside (the Windrush boom in awesome though...) - the fact the decksweepers are quicker in a blow but also more dangerous poses issues. Competitive crews will have to use them. How much thought has the association put into the safety considerations for crews? There is visibility issues. There is also going to be instances at the first top mark of large fleet events where port tack boats will crash tack on the pin. To be fast enough the crews will have to "swing" around the mast trying to grab the diamond wires on the way around. If they miss they fall in. They end up clipping the dolphin striker on their way into the water. They're then left at the mercy of the rest of the fleet bearing down onto the mark. "Just go around the back" is an argument. Maybe valid. I don't know if the crew will be fast enough to make it around the back before the skipper follows during a crash tack. 150+kgs all at the back of the boat is going to stall an already slow tack. If it's lumpy the boats will potentially capsize backwards. Maybe lots of training is the answer. Australian nationals are going to be windy. Potentially lumpy depending on where the course is set. It's going to be an ideal testing ground but I just hope someone isn't seriously injured in the process. And separate to the safety issue is whether having a decksweeper is a positive for the fleet or a negative. I know crews who won't buy one. But if DS's are technically faster then it is literally going to create a split fleet of them and us. And if the crews refusing to use decksweepers are no longer competitive what choices do they have? Suck it up or leave the fleet to sail something they'll enjoy AND be on a level playing field in?
  8. Stevie B sailed the 2017 Aus Nationals with one. Mischa H won the Worlds with one. The horse has bolted and the world executive has said they're class legal. But are they good for the class? F18's will be the only two handed class where the crew will have to go around the front of the mast during a tack using Decksweepers. There's safety considerations. There's issues with the fleet splitting between the have's and the have not's. It would appear the only way to be competitive is to bite the bullet and get one. Is it good for the class? Will it attract new sailors or disenfranchise existing ones? If it's not good how does the world executive stop it from damaging the fleet?
  9. Seeing some new F18 designs that are offering straight boards as well as a foiling/curved board hybrid option. So, two boats in one...but the price of two sets of boards for the privilege. Given the min weight is 180kg's, the manufacturers have to put the weight somewhere, reinforcing the board area to allow at least curved boards to be fitted seems reasonable for the future development of the class. I don't think full foiling is the right direction for the fleet but better performance through curved boards feels like natural evolution of the class. But I'm only one person. The reinforcing of the casing shouldn't add to much to the cost. The builders are already over laying the hulls to get the weight up so it's just a matter of re-positioning some of that weight. Cost of boards will bring the price up but the extra long boards are already expensive. Make them shorter and curved and the pricing may get close to balancing out. Winglets on the rudders are probably a good idea too...we're not all olympic sailors.
  10. Pit Bull ban in your community

    In Melbourne, Australia yesterday - very sad. A four-year-old girl was clinging to her mum's leg when she was fatally mauled by a pitbull terrier in Melbourne's northwest, a relative of the family has said. Police say the attack happened at a house in Lahy Street, St Albans, at 8.10pm last night. Her visibly distressed mother Jaclin Appok was surrounded by members of the Sudanese community at a relative's home today. Through an interpreter she described her daughter as "a very artistic girl, she loved to draw and she talked a lot''. Ms Appok was too distressed to speak about what happened. It is believed the dog escaped from a neighbour's yard and entered the home where Ayen Chol and several other children were watching television. Ayen died at the scene, another cousin aged 30 suffered bite wounds to her hands and arms and a five-year-old girl was bitten on the back of her head. RELATED COVERAGE REACTION: Dog owners face tougher penalties My daughter's getting attacked: Pitbull ripped girl from her mum's legThe Australian, 7 minutes ago Calls for more action on pitbullsThe Australian, 17 minutes ago Baillieu must ban dangerous dogs nowHerald Sun, 27 minutes ago Dog owners 'should be culpable'The Australian, 46 minutes ago Mauling victim was clinging to mum's legThe Daily Telegraph, 1 hour ago Daniel Atem, a cousin of the victims, said one of Ayen's relatives was outside the house when the dog came at her. As she rushed into the house, the animal followed her. Mr Atem said the dog initially attacked the five-year-old girl and as Ayen's mother intervened, the dog then attacked Ayen, who was clinging on to her mother's leg. "It (the dog) pulled the child from the mum... the daughter died, the dog left the child and then the owner of the dog came after that and took the dog out," Mr Atem said. The death has prompted the Victorian government to propose that dog owners whose pets kill people should face consequences similar to culpable drivers, who can be jailed for a maximum of 20 years' jail. The Nationals deputy leader Peter Walsh said the government is considering amending the Crimes Act to crack down on the owners of dangerous dogs that kill people. He said owners should be held responsible for their dogs' actions, similar to people charged with culpable driving, he said. "These types of dogs have lost their right to exist in Victoria," Mr Walsh told reporters today. A cousin of the victim said the girl's father, who is working in southern Sudan, has been contacted and was returning home. "He's very, very, very sad. The elders community in southern Sudan will counsel him," Mr Atem said. Police have yet to determine if charges will be laid against the dog's owner, who has agreed to have it destroyed. A neighbour has described how the girl's mother screamed for help as her daughter was mauled. The neighbour, who did not want to give his name, said he rushed for help after the girl's mother came screaming from the house: "My daughter's getting attacked by a dog''. He said that he and others ran into the house where they tried to revive the girl with assistance from ambulance services over the phone. He said that he had never seen the dog in the street before and that the dog's owner was "devastated'' by the attack. Superintendent Graham Kent said police were at the early stages of the investigation. "It's yet to be fully investigated to see whether or not there's been any offence committed,'' Superintendent Graham Kent said. "Our focus at this stage is to find out what happened and in the process of doing that we will find out whether or not there's been any offence." Superintendent Kent said when police arrived at the scene, it was chaotic and very distressing. American Pit Bull Terrier Club of Australia president Colin Muir said the issue was not about a particular breed but the wider problem of responsible ownership of dogs. He said no dog of any breed was safe to be left unattended with children. "It's not a breed issue, it's about responsibility of ownership and it's about education," Mr Muir said. Daniel Atem, another cousin of the victims, described Ayen as "a lovely little girl, very talkative and popular in kindergarten". The family arrived in Australia in 2004 after spending three years in Egypt awaiting resettlement. They were living at their cousin's house after their own home burned down. Pit bulls are a restricted breed in Victoria, with regulations meaning all must be desexed and registered with local councils. There is a large media pack in Lahy Street, in the working class suburb of St Albans where the attack occurred. At the girl's home the blinds were shut and there is no sign of activity in the house.
  11. Pit Bull ban in your community

    Isn't that cute!!! They must be harmless then. .....Oh, hang on I just googled "pictures of pit bulls":