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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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    At Sea
  1. Artemis?

    ^^ yep cat fight, fucking hilarious, I thought you boys were all loved up! Have watched that vid, very sobering, the semi's just a week away? That runway getting very short, NO must feel like he trying to land the shuttle on a football field with both hande tied behind his back.
  2. Artemis?

    I'm a kiwi living in SF, and I feel exactly the same about this forum. It appears my countrymen have lost all tact and humility. I hope it is confined to a subset of the kiwi members here, trolling for reactions from supporters of the opposite teams. I guess it is winter back in NZ, so some people have nothing better to do very well said - I feel exactly the same. I've even contemplated telling people here in San Fran that i'm an Aussie rather than a kiwi Ha, living proof there aint nothing quite like a self righteous, sanctimonious, holier than thou expat....good luck with the Aussie thing but they won't want you either.
  3. Artemis?

    Great effort AR, Hats Off!!
  4. Artemis?

    Let me guess that you have never sailed a 49er in more than 15 knots No I haven't sailed a 49er in more than 15 knots, not sure that this is the test for a right of passage into helming an AC 72 and not sure what it has to do with the price of cheese either. In case you missed it....NO is the standout helm of his cohort and if you were looking for someone to develop as a skipper and helm for the next AC, whatever the boat, probably none better than NO and he gets some time to be alongside the genius of LP for this regatta...hopefully ETNZ do the same with Burling ....if AR have signed NO going forward another loss to any Aussie AC plans. NO, Spithill, Beashal, Ashby, Bundock etc, maybe GD should be careful how he writes any new nationality rules, should he get the chance As for the 49er not sure it the measure of a skiff helm, pretty benign boat especially with the class wind limits, have you sailed an r class, 12', 18' in 30 knots?
  5. Artemis?

    The original AC72 Class Rules are now in force, so no minimum areas, 1-metre rudder stock maximum distance from stern restored, symmetric or assymetric but no sticking outside beam, etc. According to Cayard they have CR-compliant rudders, Murray Class Rules-compliant rudders, but not "ETNZ"-third-mode-unfriendly-fucking-Dalton-just-wants-to-eliminate-us rudders. Oh, and when unfriendly-just-wants-to-eliminate-us-fucking-Dalton offered special dispensation for them to race with the Murray-Class-Rules rudders, LR said "Non!!, you thinka we AR stupida!?!" In short, AR ar a bit fucked - still. At this point isn't IM still warranting to the USCG that the boats on the race course are also complying with the 37 point safety plan?
  6. Artemis?

    r I sure hope you are right and I be very happy to be wrong....it will be a triumph for the team, particularly the guys on the boat if they can get to a start line in a fully tricked boat, and sail her as these boats need and deserve to be sailed
  7. Artemis?

    No hate at all. Do you think PC has done a good job running AR ??Exactly my point, the focus is on PC, why must the Artemis sailing crew endure quotes like "We just want them to fade away and disappear before they become a danger to someone else..."? The Artemis sailing crew skill exceeds most if not all the other teams. DB, JS and BA doesn't have shit on NO when it comes to apparent wind sailing, add the multihull background of LP. Yep well plenty of people are very unhappy with AR, Andrew Simpson should not have died and Paul Cayard has blood on his hands. As for the AR crew, yes they are probably the equal of the other teams but when compared to those teams AR has had almost no time on the water and no time foiling an AC 72 and they are now required to get up to speed with about 10-12 days practice....who is the genius that thinks that is a reakistic strategy? Although OR have RC, JS and Murray Jones a pretty pwerful triumverant, ETNZ have the kiwi team thing going on with help from Glen Ashby and both ETNZ and OR have dezigned and built brilliant boats. As for Nathan, yes he is a great helm, but it is light years from running around two handed in a 49 er, and there are many brilliant apparent wind helms around considering most of the grand prix classes are all in that state now, VOR, OMRA, varios multis, skiffs, melges, soto, Vendee, etc, etc. JS, RC, DB all come via the centreboards, but now have 10-20 years experience on big boats, with large crews in full on development mode, NO might make it bit it won't be this year
  8. Artemis?

    Yes it would be great to see AR back on the water and racing but is just non sensical drivel to think that they can get the practice in and the refinement to systems etc done before the start of the LVC semifinals. The scariest thing was that video of NO talking about how he learnt to sail the Moth via video in the first instance and was able to put that into practice very quickly on the water. The comparison of learning to sail a foiling moth and an AC72 beggars belief and really points to an immature guy a long way out of his depth...yes he is the standout helm of his generation but the step from a 49er to helm (while IP might be the skipper once the boat is racing it is the helm who is driving the bus) of a fully crewed, wing masted, foiling AC 72 is some quantums....yes I know he has been sailing around in a semi foiler for a few weeks but we saw where that finished up, the AC 45"s are a grat trainer but clearly have much greater safety margins than a 72...and the thing about learning to sail the Moth is that any errors just result in a swim. The idea that the sailors will know if they are ready and are professinals and will make the right call sounds great but is it true and do they have the competnece to make that call because you don" t know what you don"t know? If reports are to be believed the AR 1 failure was not structural or anything to do with gear failure, so in pretty benign 18 kts (may be a puff to 23kts) they tip it in, they weren't foiling, just a bearaway....so therefore it was helm/crew error i.e. a training accident...where were the professionals recognising the dangers of their programme then? So they go from that, straight to the full kit, and are going to step it up slowly (are they heading down to San Diego or Valencia for the first week?) then slowly build to 10-15 knots ( from afar it looks like there might of been two days in the last ten with those conditions wre in SF) them wammo all good to enter a start box in 18- 20 kts, it is a laughable strategy if the stakes were not so high It easy to see why IM put the whole LVC/AC programme at risk and to some serious loss of credibility and put in place his 37 point plan which it is now clear was all to the feet of trying to save AR from themselves
  9. Artemis?

    Yes and then the whole challenger series would be farcical and nullified and the COR would be left to nominate a challenger for the AC....Cayard would the challenger!!
  10. Artemis?

    Well as RD does he or does he not have responsibility to see that the event is as safe as possible, and if class rules are the issue what about the other 5 or 6 ? Ideally not, RD's, RO's, OA's delve into prescriptive safety measures at their peril and the very basic law of the sea which obligates the safety of vessel and crew to the skipper is a fundamental to survival at sea but when things go awol and skippers abrogate that responsibility (or are not competent to assess the risks or the structure of the organisation does not give them the ultimate responsibility) then yes the OA has a responsibility to enter the fray and that seems to have been the case here to varying degrees across the fleet.
  11. Artemis?

    ^ yes Stingray, I would join you in that!!
  12. Artemis?

    ^it is worse than that, NO and PC are both talking about going back to their .26 sq m elevators if they have too, have these guys learnt nothing? They certainly don't seem to have acknowledged that IM believes that .32 sq m is needed as a safety minimum, they are just going along with it because they think they have to. Reading the NO article above is very scary "We are going to need five, six or seven days to get through the basic stuff, but the way I see it, it is not how many days, but how productive you can be in those days. It is tough to say how many days it is going to take. But obviously the lighter the wind is , the sooner we are going to be able to race. In 8-10 kts the boat should be manageable. If we have 20kts on day 5, I am sure we will have a bit on Hopefully by the time we get to August we will be able to handle 15-18kts quite comfortably." If this is the level of their thinking and planning IM's safety plan should include bolting AR to the dock and making sure their boat never has the foils or wing attached.
  13. Artemis?

    ^ on that basis and IM's negotiating record, coupled with LR's statement today that they won"t race until this issue is fully resolved it could be sometime until we get some actual racing...ETNZ could be off to the LVC final without a race with another boat on the course.
  14. Artemis?

    No, IM is saying that .32 sq m elevators are still needed to comply with the USCG permit and hence the 3rd requirement of a .32 sq m that also complies with the old class rules. ETNZ and LR have those rudders and RC states he can comply with this requirement if the IJ rules in ETNZ favour