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About atg

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  1. atg

    Moth Developement

    Um, I think dismissing the full scale tow tank work of a naval architect as irrelevant is sort of bold? For the record, this was done with early Bladerider foils. He did similar testing with an M2 mainfoil later. And his hull was cut down quite a bit from a HT. Let's see, who are we going to believe - the guy with the tow tank who says lift is x and drag is y, or...wait a minute...there isn't any other real, measured data available! Hmmm. The relative contributions of spray drag, interference drag, and form and induced drag have likely not changed much. Foils have changed size, but fundamentally not much else. I would love to see someone take a newer boat and do the same tests. When they do, they will have something to compare it to. Hard to be much more relevant than that.
  2. atg

    Moth for sale

    Tempting, but it would just join my other project Moth on the downslope. We did finally get moved into the house after demoing the whole thing, so I'm that much closer to getting the router fired up on another head car mold for the flapless setup. Sorry if the full cambered foil section let you down! What sort of area and section thickness were you running? Really Clive seems to have the twin strut tailplane setup pseudo-dialed, so the smart development-minded foil builder would probably do that. Anyway the super skinny monolithic elliptical flapless anhedral mainfoil with the big span is lurking somewhere in Rhino awaiting a toolpath. Should be a winner. Would love to buy this hull and jam the system in, but I already have the tracks in the Prowler so that will continue to be the test platform. So much fun per dollar in this rig. Can't take money with you; trade it for some memories and scoop this Chris' boat up. I spent 12.5 for a Prowler in 2007 that was competitive for maybe a microsecond, and honestly it was some of the best money I ever spent on anything.
  3. atg

    DC Designs

    Probably want to upsize those wire blocks. I think 1.5" were the smallest ones that did not eat themselves. Bill Beaver lost his rig that way on Arrested Development at 1996 worlds. Julian Bethwaite came cruising through the dinghy park early in the regatta, had one look at his 1" wire blocks and said "Oh - that will never hold." Bill had done the math, and was sure it would hold. Sure enough, it didn't. No one came to get him after the rig failure, because a storm had wiped out the whole fleet, so he managed to restep the mast on the water with a bit of string on the end of the shroud, and got back that way. A size up is cheap insurance.
  4. atg

    IC needs ride

    Talk to Rick Peters, but he will want some money. His buddy Caj hauled Clockwork up to Montana from here.
  5. atg

    Foiling Moth Setup

    Nige Oswald - Friday Harbor Chris Maas - some other island out there near Nige Andy Mills - Vancouver BC Dalton Bergan - what doesn't that guy sail? May have sold his boat awhile back though. There are some others.
  6. atg


    Opinions are like noses. The internet is a giant relief valve so people without the 3.5 large can feel like we are important, too. I matter, dammit! Kind of a genius move by Darpa, from a Marxian standpoint. There are so many more boring things to spend that kind of coin on. It takes some balls to put the details here for everyone to carp at. Say thanks and nice boat, or move on.
  7. atg

    DC Designs

    Bummer dudes. Glad you are OK. It puts the old "journey not the destination" idea of boatbuilding to the test. I always figured I would send mine forward off the roof rack in a hard stop or accident, but somehow never did. And getting rear ended always seemed like a good possibility. Maybe LED bike flashers on the tack fitting? Sorry you missed the regatta. Nothing like long island sound in October. Who are the builders? Oliver? K
  8. atg


    I have to both agree with you, yet disagree at the same time! Yes, the sailors are informed, they don't have to be there and they are making informed choices. However, their choices are based on what they see as possibilities are of being killed/injured. That whole equation has just changed and the sailors will now reassess their position based on this information. It wouldn't surprise me if we see some sailors leave AC teams. I have participated in an extreme sport, skiing, where the risks were well known. I have done a number of "first descents" and have skied things on which people have been killed, but although II knew that people died on those mountains (and others), I was able to rationalise what I did because nobody I personally knew was killed. All changed when in the space of 18 months, 3 friends, including one whom I rated as the best extreme skier ever and who was incredibly safety conscious, were killed. Although I still skied stuff that most people would consider dangerous and extreme, I stopped skiing stuff that I considered to be "if you fall you die". The idea that in any sport, the participants know the risks and make choices, therefore it's Ok, is simply wrong. F1 got to understand that 20 years ago, which is why what used to be a very dangerous sport (1 in 20 participants died every year at one point) is now safe. I am not arguing for the cancelling of the AC, or for sailors top leave teams. All I am trying to do is to frame the arguments in the correct light. There is a big difference in the discussion between "these boats are dangerous and people might die and/or get hurt" to one that says "people get killed sailing these boats". Stop equivocating Simon, what exactly are you saying? Yes people demonstrably get killed sailing these boats, people demonstrably get killed sailing all manner of boats around the year around the globe. My point was exceptionally simple EVERY TIME you go on the water you PERSONALLY take responsibility for your own life, full stop. If some one does something egrigiously wrong to cause injury (Drunk driving sheriff mows down innocent sailors in high powered motor boat comes to mind), then sure it's a slightly different matter, but this was very straight forward regardless of how tragic, sailor goes into rough water to sail high power high performance one off prototype boat in brisk conditions, things appear to have come unglued either figuratively or literally, bad outcome ensues. I have sailed high powered boats in rough conditions too and nearly killed myself, complete with literally waking up 4 feet below the water after having suffered a concussion, I was lucky enough to have the time to sort my shit out, get untangled from a hell of a mess and swim my ass to the surface. The risk is pretty fucking real to me, there but for the grace of God I actually woke up and sorted my shit out and did not pass off my mortal coil at the ripe old age of 17. Yes on some level many might argue it is insane that I would continue without calling for helmets and PFD's and support boats and all manner of nanny state incursions into our fair sport. Rather, I simply looked at it and said after returning from the hospital, "fuck, that was close, beware of that in the future" Indeed that one incident informed many decisions on many subsequent sailing days in my life and no doubt saved my bacon later on down the line. I have participated in an extreme sport too, riding a bicycle on my city's streets, I have stood over the grave of one of my best friends after he was mowed down by a drunk driver while on his bike on a City street. I personally chose to stop riding on City streets on my bike because I am surrounded by asshats, as you chose to stop skiing in high risk environments. My personal risk assesment of AC 72's is, that I would trust my own team, and the racers I race against and the available support teams, to go sailing on the boat in SF bay, part of that is knowing what my skill set is, on any given day, perhaps I might have to give it a pass in light of having children, in light of what I thought about the quality of my team mates, the build of the boat, and so on. I have stepped away from things before, I will do it again, I embrace risk, but I manage it too, it's the fundamental expectation of any sailor. So I maintain you equivocate by saying, "What they see as possibilities". If you think for a minute they don't or haven't previously seen the possibility of being killed or seriously injured while doing that job, you are fucking delusional. You are suggesting they are so arrogant, or so stupid, or so blinded by money, that they are unable to see that they could get killed on that patch of water in what are arguably the most high performance course racing boats of all time? Yes to be sure someone getting killed drives home the point, but form day one it was a possibility. As much as it is in a Volvo Ocean race or a Fastnet or Vendee Globe. We are men, we go down to the sea, even if only to have a gentlemenly contest of skill, but we do it with the full knowledge of all those before us that we take our lives into our hands when we do, as we take into our hands the lives of our brothers and trust our lives into their hands. This is what separates us from playing fucking bridge at a table, this is the essence of the commeraderie that sailors enjoy over other sports, our lives are in each others hands and this is serious shit and the stakes are as real as they get. It's special because it really is fucking dangerous, it's not a game, it's life in technicolor and 3D. when you forget that that, then you are in danger. To be clear I am not suggesting that sailors should be expected to take stupid risks, nor am I suggesting that changes should not be made to make things safer for the sailor if it is clear what can be done to do so, but lets be clear, when a boat shits the bed in the middle of the bay and a yard sale ensues, it's really difficult to suggest or speculate with any manner of precision what the possible outcomes are. In F1 they could figure out that crash boxes that dissipated kinetic energy saved lives and so they changed the rules to ensure you could dissipate the energy of a crash to save the life of a driver. How do you determine how a boat might fold up after a cascading failure and in turn where exactly the crew might be during or after said event? Some here cry about the inevitablity of a pitch pole, but by current accounts this accident was the result of a structural failure of the front beam which ended in a boat taco. Lowering the rig would not have changed for one second the performance imperative of saving weight and cutting it close on the main beam specifications. So OK, you can allow for some more carbon on main structural elements, but you all know you will end up chasing it all over the boat as teams try to eek out a performance gain here or there. I would submit that its a fair bit easier to design a safe F1 than it is to design any boat as "safe", if only because in F1 you have one driver doing a very narrow set of activities in a fully enclosed cockpit, with a very predictable set of outcomes in crashes, repeated many many times. Do you want all the crew strapped into pods on either side of the boat? Well OK, great, you can build crash cages around them and make it safer in some regards, but more dangerous in others. Bridge is looking better and better. It is so early in all this that nobody even knows how these boats are most likely to kill people. Whoever quit Oracle months ago due to safety concerns is starting to look pretty smart.
  9. atg


    If wishes were horses, beggars would ride.
  10. atg


    Make sure to get the 427 version. I love that commercial with the Vette ripping down the country roads. edit: also cool watching live in-car during the 24hrs of LeMans Saw a liitle of that too. In case you were curious, picked up a 6.2L version. Nicer than the photo'd one above but also a roadster, triple black. The 427's are just a touch too terrible unless you're a serious tracker. Love the Vette too (you know that), but this is what makes my heart beat extremely fast (and I'm not telling you whether the real toy is on the right or on the left side of the pic): See yours and raise you mine: (....and I am a tractor lover... cars like this should be R Rated) Y'all are high on marketing. These cars are all trailer queens - Maseratis, Aston Martins. Maybe not the Vette. I followed a new Aston into the garage at work a year ago and watched it empty all its transmission oil onto the floor as we drove - not fast. Maseratis are in the shop constantly. It's like some kind of income-correlated joke.
  11. atg


    I remember one of the 505s running a dolly into the fender of one of those old Astons next to the dinghy ramp at the HPDO one year. Nicest paint I have ever seen, except the dent of course. It was red.
  12. atg

    DC Designs

    Probably best to not ask the question about RRS, but the short answer is there is nothing in the class requiring anyone to use it. The ICA does its own thing when push comes to shove. Steve made some racks that ran in the carriage rails on Anders' boat. I have no idea how much Anders sailed it. But the seat is one of the best things about the ride on an IC I think.
  13. atg


    TH was never going to get there, it was obvious. Kind of hard to beat the multiple Olympic medalist tactician and the prodigy on the helm with Peyron to keep them from going pear-shaped like Oracle. That is one boatload of talent. Especially with everyone getting schooled by Ainslie in the 45s fresh out of the blocks - something had to change.
  14. atg

    DC Designs

    Sugar island is great but it is no place to go for a maiden sail. Trust me on this. Salt works well. My advice on awlgrip would be do the prep and pay someone to shoot it. Or roll test panels until you are happy. Or just prime it and declare victory for now. Big limber holes are the ticket when it comes to getting random items out of the hull (and not getting plugged up). I have only built one hull so I may not know what I am on about. Congrats on nearly being there. Karl
  15. atg

    DC Designs

    150? Is that Alice on yet another diet? Oh wait I think she was 93 or something. 150?