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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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  1. Clipper Does a Vestas

    I stand corrected, that’s good news. I imagine their insurance renewal discussions may be painful!
  2. Clipper Does a Vestas

    What are they doing about clearing up their mess? Completely unverified but I’ve heard that after removing diesel and salvaging some parts they’re going to leave the thing on the beach in a national park, as too expensive/difficult to remove. Fucking joke if you ask me, particularly given all the focus on plastic in the ocean. Sure, maybe they can’t get a crane barge in but they could pony up for a heavy lift helicopter or chop it up and use a regular one. Smacks of “its only South Africa, we can do what we like”. Guess it’s to be expected if some of the stories about dumping non degradable garbage into the ocean on legs are true.
  3. Yes, reckon I would. At the time the conversation I had with my wife was that if we were getting a boat it had to be about the sailing, otherwise a remote cabin or holiday house would be a better option, so a big heavy beneteau/jeanneau/etc was not on the cards. If anything I'd go for an even more spartan spec, but that's influenced by cruising in an area with loads of small marinas and great old towns to visit. If I was based in Vancouver for instance I'd go for a very different spec, starting with heating and hot water. We've also really enjoyed having a small boat (or rather a boat no bigger than we need), makes everything easier.
  4. As someone who's now in the second year of cruising and doing a little bit of racing in a pogo 30, and looked at (smaller versions) of some of the other boats you mention some thoughts yes, if they're a serious option get over and visit pogo and rm - Brittany's a nice part of the world and you should be able to charter one locally if you want to see what it's like for a few days with wife and kids single handing, the pogos roots are in single handed racing so no worries there, though a 40ft boat is always going to be decent work to single hand, particularly in big wind upwind, yes they can be a bit of a slog, but in my experience so will all of the other boats on your list (j may be a little better). Apparently the new 36 is meaningfully better in this regard. roller furling main, I find a stack pack and luff cars (rather than bolt rope) super easy, can reef single handed and much less to go wrong. Saw a brand new x6 having all sorts of problems with their in boom furling recently. weight/size - a lighter or smaller boat means lower loads, so easier to get the family or novices involved in the actual sailing, which will be key to long term enjoyment. Check the displacements. interior volume - beamy boats like the pogo and to a lesser extent rm are a lot bigger inside than a more traditional boat of the same length, so a pogo 36 may be more roomy than a 40.7 for example. planing boats, sure you might not want to tear the ring out of it with wife and kids onboard but having lunch with the autopilot on while zipping along at 12-15 knots without pushing the envelope is something only the planing boats will do. Lastly, as others have said think about what cruising you will do and where. How many nights will you be away from shore facilities? For example, on a 40ft boat the shower in the marina is almost always going to be preferable, so you'd think of it more as a backup. If you're tied up near a nice restaurant, are you going to be cooking on board, etc. Cutting out unnecessary complexity in systems etc makes life a hell of a lot easier and ultimately more fun.
  5. Vendee Globe 2016?

    Is he hoping to take the boat on the ship like Stamm? Otherwise presumably they could send the chopper to get there sooner, presuming it has the necessary kit (winch?) for SAR.
  6. Pogo30 vs Rm890

    While I'd agree it's quite weight sensitive (including to distribution of the weight), and I certainly didn't go anywhere near a full house of options for this reason, you can pick and choose what's important to you, and many are surprisingly light, eg heating is about 7kg, curtains less than 1kg etc. I think your average owner will be blunting performance much more with general excess crap on board, full tanks, etc. So yoü can customise to what's important to you, and presuming that's not trying to make it into an oyster, keep the weight down.
  7. Pogo30 vs Rm890

    Having looked at both (and bought a p30) I'd definitely say the p30 is the faster boat. It certainly does plane, with a hull shape that helps. But of course it is a comfortable cruising boat too with the weight implications (though much lighter than most). If your evening racing is going to be windward leeward then it's fair to say you're unlikely be picking up any trophies. I've done a lot of cruising with 4 adults and it's plenty comfortable for that with nice large berths, and the cloth doors provide privacy without weight and bulk. There's plenty of scope for customisation to suit your comfort needs, eg larger fridges, ovens, hot water, shower, heaters, different sink configurations etc. The p30's navigation station chair is a winner for passages. Take a look and see how you feel about the set up and interiors on both, eg you may hate lack of floorboards, but as I'm tall it's great as it maximises headroom. Sailing wise it's very easy to sail, comfortable doing 15kn in 25t on autopilot while cooking lunch.
  8. Vendee Globe 2016?

    Looks to me like ecwmf is calling for the area of light wind to expand and swallow at up. Gfs looks like he's clear. Not sure the former helps the chasers much though as the south hes gained still helps at. Somewhere in between the two with an expanding area of light wind he can stay in front of but the others need to sail through would probably be best for at.
  9. Harken Reflex Top Down Furler Anyone using one?

    It's not clear to me what it does that existing furlers from karver and profurl don't (you can switch them between sails and they can handle spinnakers and code sails). Perhaps it's the different cable, but that seems a marginal difference to me.
  10. Origami Boat Thread

    What size/displacement of boat are you needing 90ton strength on? Do your boats have positive buoyancy when completely flooded? When they don't hole, they don't flood. Water doesn't come thru a dent, where there are no holes. Working with a material of 60,000 psi tensile strength, 90 tons comes easy. So why not? Are you suggesting one should go to great lengths to make it weaker? So, I don't get the priorities here. If a through hull fitting or possibly a hatch or window fails youre sinking, but you spec a 90t cleat? If your 36 weighs 10t that's enough to pull 9g. Alternatively, assuming 11mx3m with 1.5m freeboard, enough to hold it completely submerged with a safer factor of nearly 4x. Why?
  11. Origami Boat Thread

    If these guys are as good at boat building as they are at sailing I'm not too sure why them building it themselves should give them more peace of mind.
  12. Origami Boat Thread

    What size/displacement of boat are you needing 90ton strength on? Do your boats have positive buoyancy when completely flooded?
  13. Buying from Pogo Structures?

    As a 30 owner I'd say go for it. My experience was pretty seamless all the way through. They don't have a dealer network anywhere, so they are set up to deal with this as most boats are sold outside France. This is also reflected in a lower price. Ultimately Combrit where they are based is not the best connected place in the world, so if the unlikely happens you're still a day travelling away from them, same as a boat in Helsinki, Scotland or any of the other places they sell to in Europe. Of course shipping will be more if you're not sailing it across. There's a thread on here about a 12.5 sold to Australia, which is a hell of a lot further! Also, the waiting list for the 30 is less silly than the 12.5, a bit under a year I'd guess, though with the sailing season getting going in Europe now it may be the time to reserve a slot.
  14. Construction of a Pogo 12.50

    They do a removable topmast set of backstays for the 30 with the carbon backstayless rig. These are just for tuning forestay tension though, not to provide structural strength (hence no checkstays). They may well do similar for the 40.
  15. Which 30ft performance cruiser?

    Well - I've not taken delivery yet (waiting list was about 15 months when I put my deposit down about a year ago). I have spent a few days on a swing keel one though, and would say that I didn't notice it was a swing keel, which I think is what you want. Though I've not sailed the fixed keel version. I think the question on the swing keel is whether you'll use it where you're sailing. As I'll be sailing tidal waters, with a fair bit of south west uk I took the view I'd get the benefit to justify the price. The waiting list should give you a chance to save! I got my name down and then spent some time sailing the boat, visiting the factory etc. Before the deposit went nonrefundable. On irc - the impression I have is that a well sailed one should wind up mid-fleet corrected, but a lot of variation based on conditions. Some are showing a rating as high as 1.06, but I presume they have the incidences voiles squaretop that is very aggressive, north etc. suggest a more moderate design. I also wonder whether their C0 is rating as a spinnaker or headsail (low end of rating band is about 1.025 if I remember correctly). My impression is that irc is getting more friendly to these types of boats, e.g. an article in seahorse by the chief measurer talking about not penalising light (in both senses of the word) and simple interiors as that's what owners increasingly want. I understand there may be one having a proper go at irc offshore racing in the uk next year, which would give some pointers.