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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.


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  1. I've got a question that doesn't relate to sailboats, but it is fixing a glass/carbon boat that has some (extensive) damage. To explain the situation in short, I've been asked to look at a boat at the local rowing club that got banged up. The rowers ran it into a scaffolding-like structure (a helipad, I kid you not) which has a beam just below the water. The bottom of the boat (right along the keel line) is all cracked and soft to the touch. They then proceeded to drop the boat on concrete, forcing the skeg into the hull and cracking that area as well. Basically the bottom of the hull is mostly smashed up. I've worked on rowing shells before and, as far as I can tell, their construction in the hull is a couple layers of light glass/carbon on either side of a honeycomb core. In the past the repairs I've worked on either had the honeycomb and/or one skin still intact, or the holes were so small I wasn't worried about glass drooping out of shape. In this case my instinct would be to cut out all the smashed parts of the hull to replace them (I wouldn't be surprised if the glass is broken and the core squished). My problem is that the resultant holes would be more than I can just lay a bit of glass over and fair it in. So, Fix It Anarchy, what would you do? Note that internal access to the hull *might* be possible, but it would mean at a minimum cutting out the fore and aft decks (not ideal). I'll be trying to talk the club into sending the boat to a proper shop, but getting to a rowing shell manufacturer is not feasible and I don't know how comfortable the couple of local sailing boat shops would be taking on such a lightly-built craft with such extensive damage. Boat hasn't been a "racing" boat in a very long time, the job won't have to be "to new" spec, just "it'll float and be dry" spec.
  2. There was an article written up about it a while back. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympics/2305180/Sailing-What-a-joy-to-see-the-Orse-ablaze.html So the boat was burned, the fittings and rigging still on it presumably (not like they had a chance to take it to shore and strip it). I've heard that the sails made it off the boat and were used by another campaigning team for the next Olympic cycle (which never materialized as the Tempest was dropped form the roster after Montreal).
  3. Mast to windward the scooping method High Flow mentioned works pretty well. If the lighter person is in the water then all the better. If you capsize with the mast to leeward, the fastest way is to roll the boat completely over so that the mast is to windward, if it's off to a side, then the wind and waves will tend to blow you around. In lighter winds obviously the scoop doesn't work and you need to use a different method, here's what we did when racing in light winds (or when we couldn't scoop for other reasons): -Both swim around to the daggerboard, and hop on up. Don't let the boat come up until you're both on the board (the first person up might have to go sit on the gunwale). -Once you're up there, have the sailor closer to the hull grab the gunwale or a kite sheet (whichever is more convenient) while the other stands further out on the board holding the person in front of them. We generally had the crew closer to the hull and skipper further out, it was a function of what was comfortable) -As the mast raises out of the water, you're going to have to act quick if both sailors want to get on without swimming. --If you don't mind getting wet then the person in front will hop over the gunwale near the wing/chainplates and sprint to the tiller and mainsheet while the other gets wet and climbs in either over a wing dipped in the water or over the transom. --If you want to stay dry (or are racing and want to get going as soon as possible) the skipper will hop over to the underside of the wing as the mast clears the water. -As the boat comes upright the skipper climbs over the wing (DO NOT REVERSE LOAD THE WING!). make sure you only load the wing the way you would standing on it, otherwise you risk tearing it out of the deck. Skipper goes straight for tiller and mainsheet. -Meanwhile the crew has jumped up in front of the chainplates. While catching balance it's easier to stay in front of the mast and step back to a sailing position on the wing once the boat is under control. No matter what, you have to be a little quick on your feet as the boat will try to roll right back over if given the chance.
  4. Yeah I'm usually close enough to land so that I could theoretically set the "home" to the roof or the boat yard without much issue. Landing is the easy part. If the quad cant get a fix, it wont let you take off. As long as you have someone on land that can swap batteries, etc you will be fine. MS They are reasonably reliable while they work. All the controller/platform combinations I've played with have a limit somewhere when what looks like a clean landing turns into a massacre in no time flat. Just be careful if you're landing out of sight (we'll ignore the legal implications of that for now). My only concern with the Phantoms from my experience is proximity to a "restricted" area in their database, generally airports. The limitations can (according to DJI) be modified/removed on the Phantom 3 and newer, but if you accidentally fly into a restricted area the drone takes over and its reactions can be unpredictable at best.
  5. This advice has been said above, but I'll throw my voice behind it as well. Try sailing on other people's boats, learn to sail with a class or a sailor who needs a crew. While not guaranteed, you're likely to cause damage to any boat you buy to start with, especially if it's two complete novices going for a sail. The short story about boats is that they consume money and time like almost nothing else, and often a cheap boat is more expensive in the long run than a more expensive second-hand one. The maintenance and bits and pieces costs will keep you spending money to keep the boat going. Plus a boat that's in better shape, while more expensive, is likely to be easier to sail in general (systems setup correctly, appropriate controls and bits of string in the right place, good sails, etc). So, long story short, learn on any boat that you don't own. Then save up and buy a decent second-hand boat, ideally in a class that is popular locally.
  6. Realistically? It depends what you want, at the cheapest level you could build something for $400 and throw a gopro (or any other action camera) on it. The Phantom 3 from my limited experience with it (I have plenty with the 2 and only brief interactions with the 3 and 4) should do the trick once in the air, no problem. Mavic has the nice portability features, but as you mentioned it comes with a price. Soi it comes down to what features do you NEED, what features can you afford, and what features do you want. Much like buying a boat, any will get you a bird's eye view, every option out there has a way of mounting a live-view feed, the battery life will be comparable for everything within the same "weight class" (using similar sized batteries, motors and propellers), the cameras and their quality might vary a bit from brand to brand (don't know what you need/want here). In small size quadrotor solutions, the market has basically solved the problem as best as it can with current tech.
  7. It's tough to hear of this, I cannot imagine what it would be like not to have had the life I've lived since the age of 18 and I don't want to even guess at how the family is feeling following the accident. My condolences and prayers are with them and my heart goes out to anyone who knew her. I hope we hear what happened, I hope it all gets sorted out. I will keep an ear out for official releases about the incident and hope that whatever comes forward is taken as a lesson learned for the rest of us. Fair winds Bethany, and thank you for all you contributed through your volunteering during your life.
  8. Certainly in 49ers it's less the not-class-legal kit that they allow to race but you can't take home a prize (actually when I've seen it implemented it's you can't race in gold fleet), it's when a piece of kit is changed that they allow the old stuff. See the implementation of the carbon rigs, different generations of foils, etc. Basically stuff that could be considered "grandfathered" in.
  9. What currency are you using for the Flo1? Their website states 10.7k EUR (so a bit more than 11k USD, before VAT, shipping, etc) The moth has a strong used market, unlike most of the other boats you've listed. And most members of the moth community will point a beginner at a well sorted second-hand moth before they point them at a new boat. Danny, like for any boat recommendation/search, you need to give a little more detail. And the more detail you can give the better a response you will get. Let's start with (rough guidelines) age, sailing experience (which boats, etc), size/weight (some boats can be more suitable for a heavier or lighter sailor), location (shipping can get expensive to ship half way around the globe), type of sailing (sheltered lake or the open ocean? Launching from a ramp or a beach?), etc. More details allow people to actually make a reasonable guesstimate. It also means that people with significantly similar experiences can share their stories and you'll know that they are applicable to your situation. When it comes to small foilers these days, keep in mind that there are a few products that have recently (within the last year or so) come to market, there are a number that are coming to market in the coming months, and there's an endless supply of vapour-ware renderings. Compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges.
  10. GBR, I'm still young enough that my friends who dropped out of the systems in their late teens haven't considered returning, some feel that they were unfairly pushed out of a training group for politics reasons or are upset that they were unceremoniously dropped when they were no longer the hottest one on the squad. My comments about people being directed to different sports, I probably used a bad set of examples (I wanted to use sports that everyone would recognize). It's generally more of the big sports testing potential athletes, and if they don't get in the athlete can be recruited or pointed towards a different sport who might be interested. See the Discover Your Gold system by Sport GB.
  11. See the bottom of the page: http://www.fulcrumspeedworks.com/UFO/overview/
  12. I don't know what the US deal is with the NCAA, it seems absurd some of the money being thrown around in college sports down there. But I competed in collegiate sailing through NEISA and thus ICSA's rules. The whole concept of "no scholarships specifically for sailing" is nice to know that I'm not competing against kids who are going to school just to be the next best thing to a professional sailor. If you want to get kids to the international stage in sports like sailing and rowing the way the UK has managed you have to remove the "college" mentality about it nationally, and you have to start investing in talent ID systems. Once you implement it it's going to take 1 or 2 cycles before you see returns on your investment, that's how long it will take to suck up all the potential youth talent and push it through the meat grinder. I've got friends who went through the UK systems for both sailing and rowing (both to a reasonable degree), and I've talked to people who have gone through the development programs for other sports. The first thing I noticed was that by and large it's a national talent ID system, that means that the sports' governing bodies cooperate to find talent, and if rowing finds somebody who might be a great swimmer or football finds a potentially amazing sailor, there's a decent chance the athlete will at some point be aimed towards their "ideal" sport. Once in the system it's a grinder that works by extreme attrition. The outcome is that you end up with a lot of dissatisfied kids on the other end, a good number will drop competitive sports, some will stick around because they enjoy it, and some will drift around other sports until they find something they actually enjoy, but it isn't filling local clubs and racing scenes.
  13. And the solution And the big question for the USA ... DO WE CARE about international success at this sport.... or are we content with participating at the country club level? Note that rowing in the UK and sailing in the US and Canada are not really the same beast. I've not had a chance to read the US Rowing report, but something to know about the UK's rowing system to which they are referring here is that it's very intense and still maintains a huge amount of grass-roots support. The British system for talent identification and streaming is quite spectacular, and rowing is no exception, so you have a strong group of top level rowers showing off the country on a stage that is in the public eye (rowing is covered in the general media reasonably regularly). At the club level, they have a density that's spectacular, and anywhere you can row on is used, even rivers that are too narrow to turn the boats around in (they have spinning spots every once in a while that are just about wide enough). This means that there are local competitions all summer that are well attended (a few hundred competitors is a standard weekend) and you can probably race every other weekend without driving more than an hour or two if you're reasonably centrally located. Unfortunately sailing in the US and NA in general isn't there on either of these fronts. We don't have sailors who regularly make it into the mainstream news and we don't have close-packed facilities that allow fleet racing every weekend without significant travel. Never mind that the costs for a club rower in the UK are a small fraction of joining a sailing club around here (I paid less than 200USD for a membership which included access to a fleet of boats, equipment, and facilities while I was there, it was cheaper than a gym membership). If you want to grow and compare yourself to a system that thrives on a critical density, you need to get at least close to that density first. Then you'll see increased participation, talent floating to the top, etc. Of course it's much harder to get there than be there, success breeds success and all that.
  14. He's alternately posting about foiling catamarans and skiing in beautiful snowy areas these days. Something tells me he has plans, but there are too many distractions at the moment.
  15. MidPack, sorry, I meant "difficult" as in it would be difficult for somebody to sustain it. The motion itself is not terribly hard to figure out, certainly not as a reactionary action, seeing and anticipating wind variations takes a little bit of skill. But mostly the "difficult" I'm trying to refer to (and I realize re-reading my post that I could have pointed this out) is that it's actually possible to make the sheeting motion very efficient while still being quick, but figuring out the motion and how to pull for that efficiency is difficult (lots of trial and error). If you learn to do the sheeting on a double handed boat, which often has a higher sheet load than the UFO will, then quick efficient motions will be easier when you get on the UFO. (I don't know if that helps at all or if it just makes things more confusing)