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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


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12 Whiner

About ~HHN92~

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  • Birthday 01/01/1959

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  1. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    The 'Bloody' Aquafin per Peter J. back in '93 at the Worlds.
  2. The Next Boat-----2020

    Hook 'Em Horns is going to have a totally new meaning...
  3. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    Get with Cindy and use the one from the old Team Florida shirts.
  4. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    You do not need LP for parts if there are other suppliers that will submit their products for class approval. The only thing the class sailors need from LP is a new hull on occasion, if they choose to buy one. Like R says, there are a ton of them out there that can be bought from a recreational sailor and then add your racing parts to it for class legal competition. I bought my latest one from a guy in Central FL that had 2 of them he bought for his kids. They did not like the boats so I bought mine for pennies on the dollar. The boat was roughed-up some and the sail was missing but I had the parts from an old boat to set it up. A little elbow grease to clean-up the scratches and wala - a new race boat cheap. The class does not need LP once the parts and pieces are sorted. Barring LP harassing the class it will hurt LP more than the class. The more I think about it this may actually be good for the class as long as LP does not persist in challenging the class at every move. As long as the class stays clear of infringing any of LP's 'rights' then all should be OK.
  5. X 24 class is a simplified J 24

    A couple of comments: There is already the IC24, we actually have one at our club on Tampa Bay. Why another class version of the similar type modification? In light air venues such as ours only having a blade is going to be misery, it is bad enough with the genoa. The IC24 guy just gets killed on our Thursday beercans, in fact I have not seen the boat move or sail in a while. It is an idea for old boats that are not being used for class racing but gutting the performance too much is a deal breaker for some, IMO.
  6. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    You can always use the word 'Sunfish' just not in the stylized way that the logo's and trademarks are done. If you couldn't then every article or notice written with that word would be liable for lawsuits. "It is a class for racing Sunfish sailboats" and always have a disclaimer that it is in no way associated with the Sunfish builder and/or their trademarks in any fashion. Maybe add something about what assholes they are in it to boot. Well, maybe not the assholes part... Maybe a change to the class name in a way to indicate sailors and not the builder, like a car club that likes Corvettes, Porches, etc. and holds rally's for those cars.
  7. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    How much does 50 years of precedent count for?
  8. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    I think to the new class ISCO. I have not read more since the initial notification from them.
  9. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    From the class newsletter 'Windward Leg': Letter from the ISCA President … As most of you know from my letter last week, LP is using deception to start their own Sunfish Class, ISCO. This was done in retaliation because the World Council would not sign over our rights to the ISCA initials and the name International Sunfish Class Association in a restrictive trademark agreement to LP. At our World Council meeting held in Brant Beach on August 30, 2017, we voted that we would not relinquish our rights to ISCA at any cost. Enough was enough. The class is tired of being held hostage to LP. From threatening to withhold World Championship boat shipments, unless we signed the agreement, to not being able to get class legal parts for many years, created the need for the World Council to take action. The World Council has changed the class rules to allow ISCA, not the builder, to approve class legal parts for the boats. These rule changes have been submitted to World Sailing, and they have assured ISCA that they are working to approve this ASAP. Unfortunately, LP has left the Class with more problems than solutions, broken promises and few choices. It would be ideal if LP could just support the class make boats, and let us sail them. Recently LP has notified many of you to sign an agreement with them. We caution you … DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING from LP, Velum or ISCO! Beware; LP has many different layered companies. Although the letter stated it was signed by ISCA, it was not! ISCA had nothing to do with the letter. All of ISCA’s letters will originate from the Class office. This agreement is being done to benefit LP, not one­design sailing for our Class. Once again LP offers nothing. Where is their plan for charter boats? Since 2011 ISCA has to find a dealer to layout all of the money for the World Championship Charters. With all of the problems over the years this has become an increasingly difficult sell to dealers. Therefore, the 2018 ISCA World Championships will be a bring your own boat Regatta. (see NOR link below) https://www.sunfishclass.org/documents/nor_2013/NOR_2018_ISCA_WORLD_CHAMPIONSHIP_Preliminary.pdf This Class belongs to the members and not LP. Make no mistake about it, ISCO is LP and LP is ISCO. In order for ISCA to become a recognized Class by World sailing (ISAF) in 1984, the Class had to be independent from the builder for a year before being recognized. AMF spun the Class off to be an independent internationally recognized Class and now LP wants it back. The one caveat is that they want ISCA members to run it under their control. Here is an update on the actions we are taking. We will do our best to keep all of you updated on a regular basis as things develop. We continue to fight for our Class and will not give up. 1 Our attorney issued LP a “cease and desist” letter telling them to stop using any information copied from our website. That includes our, Class Rules, Constitution, mission statement and personal information of our members. This is a clear copyright violation. The outrage expressed by many of you directly to LP has been a huge help. Thank you for your support. 2 The update from Hector Duval, our ISCA World Sailing representative who met with World Sailing at their annual meeting in Mexico last week, is quite encouraging. Please note that World Sailing has not made any public statements of support yet, but we feel it’s important that you know what is currently happening there. a. The general consensus of the World Sailing members, who Hector talked with, do not support ISCO’s and LP’s actions. World Sailing is run for the sailors not for the builders. World Sailing is very familiar with LP and their issues and, as a result, World Sailing currently supports ISCA not ISCO. b. The consensus for approving our class rule change, giving us the right to approve class legal parts, is positive. It has even been hinted at that we should expect an approval letter quite soon. Again, we await a public statement of support from World Sailing’s within the next week. We all know we are not alone in our fight for independence. The International Laser Class Association (ILCA) has also had similar issues. LP has not been supporting our Class since 2011, but they are intent on starving us for parts and controlling us. Once World Sailing acts we will know what our next steps will be. What we do predict is that LP will continue their fight to try to take control of our class. LP hopes to win by depleting the class’s funds. Now more than ever, it is crucial that everyone renews their membership and supports the class with donations. We did not choose this fight, LP did. Donations will help with our legal expenses and with keeping the class independent. So you’ll be hearing more from us about ways you can help. Lastly, I want to thank Hector Duval for all his efforts at the World Sailing Annual meeting in Mexico last week. Hector was very busy and was able to get meetings on short notice with World Sailing’s key personnel. Hector, I know I’m speaking for our entire class; THANK YOU for all of your hard work this week. We would not have been able to move as quickly as we did without your help.” It is important to note that we are all volunteers, and Hector was at the World Sailing meeting on his own nickel. We did not pay his way; he does this because he loves this class like we all do!
  10. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    I have a 2008 build with an aluminum tiller shaped like the old wood tiller. Boat had very little use when I bought it and freshwater only. In a moderate 15-17 knot breeze the rivets pulled-out as I was going downwind, right at the mark rounding. Fortunately being alone I was able to recover and limp the boat to the finish from the mark to the offset line. Until then I had not noticed that it was just rivets.
  11. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    It is the old 'cut your nose off to spite your face' routine.
  12. Huh? New Sunfish Class?

    The Sunfish is a different set-up compared to Lightning's, etc. so not comparable when looking at overall sales. Plus those boats have multiple licensed builders, Sunfish has always been one that has sold a few times over the years. It was a recreational boat that people started to race, I think Lightning's, etc. were designed with developing a class from the beginning, such as the J24's, Melges, etc. were. The builder has the bat and ball and has most always played nice with the class. I agree, there is some control issue that they want to take that has never been done before. Probably bean counters that do not have any sense of reality in the big scheme. So what if some little class people get screwed, we'll make our money, history and tradition be damned.
  13. Barn Find Cal 40

    Hull drawings, the lead is in the forward part of the keel and the rest is hollow or solid glass. They talked about the keel in the YT vids when it was first pulled and pressure washed. Shocked me how clean it came and left bottom paint mostly intact. Tons of blisters though.
  14. Barn Find Cal 40

    Cal 25 on steroids. I imagine it opens-up the cabin quite a bit over the standard coach roof.
  15. Barn Find Cal 40

    Heard about it and found this pic.