• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

About MultiThom

  • Rank
  • Birthday 07/10/1950

Contact Methods

  • Website URL
  • Yahoo

Profile Information

  • Location
    Benicia, CA
  • Interests
    Trimaran sailing; sailmaking; boat rigging; SeaRail 19 Trimaran Google Group
  1. SeaRail 19 Folds

    Sure, but that's not creep. Perhaps I'm picky about word usage, but creep is permanent deformation/lengthening.
  2. SeaRail 19 Folds

    Tom, that's just not what creep is. As the APS guy said, it is the reorientation/elongation of the molecular structure. Which is permanent deformation. It's also what the Samson guy said and any rigger will tell you. Perhaps it is semantics; but it is more correct to say stretch if the line goes back to its original length after load is removed. There are a lot of nub readers, don't want to confuse them.
  3. SeaRail 19 Folds

    Can't be creep if the line returns to its original length. Creep is permanent elongation. Stretch is temporary elongation. If it stretches 4" over 26 feet that is nearly 1.5%...dyneema shouldn't stretch or creep that much. Here's a quote from APS ltd rig shop... What's creep? What creep is, and it's the issue that Dyneema and Spectra have historically have had is while this is a very low stretch line, it does creep and what happens is under a constant high load, the molecules in Dyneema start to rearrange and elongate. When you remove the tension, the line doesn't recover. It stays in that extended length. To illustrate, if I were to take a piece of this from the ceiling and hang a 50 pound weight from this and come back in a month, I would probably find that the weight is sitting on the floor, the line has elongated, when I untie the weight, the line stays elongated. That's a dramatic explanation but it kind of gives you the idea of what creep is. Next time you change halyards, go with Crystalyne (Vectran)...no stretch and no creep (after initial elongation anyway).
  4. SeaRail 19 Folds

    That's really good advice, Wayne. Thanks.
  5. SeaRail 19 Folds

    It also could be the halyard clutch if you have one and you have dyneema/vectran halyards. I had that issue on my F24; the line would slip slightly. That slip eventually causes failure of the cover and then the day's sail is over (and it is a bear to finally get the mainsail down). I finally fixed it by inserting a bulk splice where it goes through the clutch. A lot of work to do, though.
  6. SeaRail 19 Folds

    That's stretch, not creep. Polyester (dacron AKA yachtbraid)) lines will stretch that much. Dyneema or Vectran won't. If you paid for dyneema and it is stretching that much each time out, I'd take it back to the rigger and say this line is defective.
  7. SeaRail 19 Folds

    Thanks, Wayne...that's how it is rigged. Terminated at the mast head on a little strut outboard the mast, down through a block on the sail (well, actually the block is on the headboard shackle which is attached to the sail head), then up to a sheave at the top mast groove, then down the luff groove to a sheave at the bottom of the mast track and out to be pulled to hoist. The system would work fine if the sail's luff rope had been made 5/16" instead of 3/8". That extra 16th makes a difference. I "could" (and may eventually) get a smaller diameter halyard (1/4" dyneema instead of the covered 5/16" line) and that also would make a difference. But I expect that the switch to sail slugs will make everything easy enough for me. Also, given that the luff rope is overlarge, no matter how much cunningham is applied, it wouldn't compress the mast; so switching to slugs is a win-win.
  8. SeaRail 19 Folds

    Related to creep, the lines eventually stop having to be noticeably adjusted-otherwise you couldn't use them reliably for shrouds. http://www.samsonrope.com/Documents/Technical Bulletins/TB_Understanding Creep_MAR2012_WEB.pdf But those first few sails with synthetic shrouds you do have to pay attention to them. I recall my first vectran shrouds on my F24...by the end of the first sail the mast was leaning way forward going downwind--scared me to tell the truth.
  9. SeaRail 19 Folds

    Not my cup of tea. Trying to unhook the darn hook at the top of the mast on a rolling deck is more than I want to deal with. Especially since you are trying to get the sail down in 20+ kts of wind and 3 kts of current while in traffic. Get decent dynema or other high tech halyards with virtually no stretch and you have the optimum in both performance and ease of use. Sure, I survived the experience and even got good at it. The Getaway "lay to" with mainsheet undone at about 45 to the wind and seas. I hope to be able to do something similar to that with the SeaRail, but trimarans don't seem to find a comfortable angle to wind and seas and stay there. There were a lot of nice things about the Getaway...
  10. SeaRail 19 Folds

    They probably would if I had that much patience. I don't. I have an industrial sewing machine and could put in a new boltrope if I had to. But since I'm not racing and since I'm 67 years young, I'll just use the slugs. Allslip slugs are what I used on this sail and on the F242 mainsails that I made for it. I won sufficient races with those sails. For me, it is all about "less time from trailer to sailing" (which is why Multi 23 and Diam 24s didn't even have a chance--ain't no demountable boats in my future). I have to admit I was pleased with how easily the mainsail boltrope went up the mast track on the Hobie Getaway...then chagrined by the darn hook you had to use on top of the mast to hold the halyard instead of a more sensible cleat (yah, I know that it halves the compression force on the mast-so what?). Apparently Phil anticipated issues with boltropes and the main halyard routing (for some reason, he routes the line through the mast groove--like on a WR17). That just adds friction to the system...I suspect that like the WR17, he did it because there isn't a big foredeck to hoist from--in any case he made it 2:1 but that isn't enough if the boltrope is overlarge.
  11. SeaRail 19 Folds

    A couple features of the SeaRail appealed to me. I single hand a lot and the self tacking jib is a really nice feature for single handing in a good breeze. I recall many blown tacks on my F24 because I couldn't get the jib over and tensioned quickly enough (even with crew sometimes). I really like boomless mainsails now that I've owned and sailed a Hobie Getaway. Nobody can get hurt by a boom if there isn't one. I like the tiller that goes under the traveler (like Mult23s)...no more throwing the tiller extension off the back end on a tack. I like the generous "Sail locker" that can be a tiny cabin if needed. Like all boats, though, there are issues to deal with or learn to live with. I don't know why the sprit is so long...but you can't really attach it until after launch. I don't know why Randy Smyth designed the spinnaker so flat (55 % smg); I will probably need a fatter sail for the way I sail and where I sail; if I do that, though, I probably will also make a shorter sprit. Like the old F25s, you have to loosen shrouds to unfold/fold then tighten for sailing/trailering. I put a leash on the shroud so I have the "loose" position fixed (sorta highfield lever). Biggest issue right now is quality control at the Hyde sailmaker. They made two mainsails with overlarge bolt ropes. Spec calls for 5/16" as delivered they are 3/8" or larger. I decided to add sail slugs to one of them so I can sail the boat. I'm an old guy and hoisting a mainsail gets harder and harder; so I may just live with a tiny performance drop caused by the slugs.
  12. SeaRail 19 Folds

    Here's how to unfold the 2017 SeaRail.
  13. SeaRail 19 Owners Blog/Vlog

    OK, here's how it unfolds...
  14. SeaRail 19 Owners Blog/Vlog

    I did do something similar to what you suggest, however, Tom. First, I purchased an extension to my hitch receiver of 18". SO, I was able to mount the sprit while on the hard. Then I attached the halyard and hoisted the spin a little to get it off the deck (being careful not to let it get opened (wind was blowing 20). I did try to sail today. Outboard problems (Suzuki DF2.5 long shaft replaced my Honda short shaft). It ran poorly and intermittently (new stuff has a tendency to be problematic until you get used to it). We did get out of the marina but engine problems coupled with sheave problems on the mast coupled with a too large luff rope prevented us from actually sailing. We got the mainsail half way up. This is my second new mainsail from Hyde...let's just say that I won't buy a sail from Hyde when it comes time to do so. I will make it work by adding sail slugs. It'll lose a tiny bit of performance but should make raising and lowering the mainsail much easier. I'll post a "non sailing" video sometime soon. It will just show unfolding the boat. It is pretty easy. I added a "leash" so I don't have to fiddle with the shrouds. It continues to get easier to raise the mast and get ready to sail. Today it only took an hour to launch (first time took 2 hours). It only took 20 minutes to unfold (first time took an hour). I expect eventually to get close to how fast it was to get sailing with my old F24.
  15. OK You Were Right - CHS X19 Trimaran

    Sorry it didn't work out for you. It is a tough niche market. You should be proud of yourself for having tried for so long.