Herreshoff

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Everything posted by Herreshoff

  1. Herreshoff

    Keel bolt maintenance.

    Looks solid. Have you considered doubling the nuts just for good measure?
  2. Herreshoff

    Another J24 Verm job

    Please, any suggestions on floor sheathing. What do they usually use in the J24? Type, thickness? I was going to go with a teak and holly sheet from our local hardwood supplier but it seems teak and holly plywood is just a thin veneer of teak and holly glued to marine plywood. It needs to be ordered. Thinking of just going with a sheet of marine plywood that I can get immediately and can add any veneer I wish or not. The thought of marine ply brings up questions in my mind with regards to durability and resistance to rot. Do I just saturate the plywood with epoxy? Is It a realistic / feasible option to go with a solid sheet of hardwood instead of ply?
  3. Herreshoff

    Another J24 Verm job

    I’ve been planning on removing the vermiculite in our J24 and had ordered waterlines replacement kit. So, I have given up on getting the floor kit from Waterline. They just straight out flaked. We are going to layup solid glass floors or go the Coosa board / G10 route glassed over and will fill the sump with resin, chopped strands, and cabosil. Additionally, some layers of high density foam layered with epoxy putty and glass layers up to the keel bolt thread level. Topping off with a plate of G10 and some cloth running out toward the side storage bunks. I’ve read some posts from Gouv about him adding some finger thick roving strands running from the sump to the side bunks. I think he mentioned running from the bunks down under the keel bolt washers and extending across to the other side bunks. I would like to add some strength at the location directly aft of the keel because it seems the bottom sucks in a smidge when we lift the boat. It seems now would be the time to beef that section up. Do others think we should just add some resin and cloth layers there or run some roving straps out of the sump and radiate out, or both? It seems to me that on the verm job commitment time is when you cut into the floor. So, I finally committed. Basically, uncovered stinky wet mess as expected. Couple things I’ve noticed. The top layer in the sump was cracked but pretty rock hard. Under that was potting soil like stinky black crap. Everything on the sides of the sump under the floors is less concrete like and more like glued sawdust. Some came out easy, some not so much. They ran vermiculite almost all the way to the transom. The rotted core floors are friggin heavy too! I’ve included some pics for the fun of it. I will update as we go. In my research on sump repair, I was able to source some good pics but not a lot so I’m going to try and document this thoroughly for the few that haven’t tackled this project and also to remove all doubt, the verm is wet, heavy and there’s a lot of it. You want it out. To add to the fun, new bottom, don’t want to daylight;)
  4. Herreshoff

    Another J24 Verm job

    Thanks guerdon, I think I have one. Never have used it, always have thought of it for rust and scale removal on metal only. I have an air chisel too and expected to be using it but haven’t needed to as just started pecking by hand with single jack and chisel and it tediously comes out bit by bit. I think I actually have been enjoying the pain of process for some reason. Trying to be gentle on the lamininant and was planning on a 1/2 a day or so of grinding away remaining vermiculite.
  5. Herreshoff

    Waterline Systems

    Well that’s awesome news. They must be too busy to take care of existing customers. I sent a couple more emails out last week and copied Randy on them simply asking for an update on the order I placed almost 3 months ago and if they will be able to get it done. At the time of the order the estimate was an optimistic 7 days out. I was stoked. Now just crickets. It’s just disappointing. Not sure why they went from attentive to completely silent in 3 months but I can’t see building new business foundations on this kind of customer service. I was trying to be patient but lack of communication is a business killer.
  6. Herreshoff

    Waterline Systems

    Well, we’re going on 2 months since ordering the sump kit from Waterline and no charge on the card and no response on a couple emails asking status. Doing this off season was the plan. Optimism waining. So hoping these guys get it together.
  7. Herreshoff

    Waterline Systems

    Randy has been helpful and responsive. I am absolutely patiently awaiting the parts. It seems the boat business can be as difficult as it can be lucrative. I’m not sure any of these guys are getting rich. Actually, doubting it. At the end of the day it’s a living. I’m thankful someone’s trying to provide support To J boat owners. I agree, hopefully many will be supportive and give them a chance to gain new traction.
  8. Herreshoff

    Tattoo 26- WTF???

    It’s all relative... run what ya brung...
  9. Herreshoff

    Waterline Systems

    Thanks SPECTRE, may be in touch if the Waterline kit doesn’t work out. Feeling optimistic that they will come through but will see.
  10. Herreshoff

    Waterline Systems

    I assumed it was a Gordon Borges. I can’t find the old emails to verify. He was cool on the phone but wasn’t really willing to help. He didn’t seemed concerned with throwing away business. Just a measly sump kit I guess. When I most recently reached out thinking I was trying Gordon again instead I got the response from Henry and he now heads up the parts department. I have ordered the sump kit through Henry a couple weeks ago but still have not seen the charge or heard back. He said it would be a week out or so. Previously, when speaking with Gordon he said he would need a few orders at one time to make it worth his time as they needed to makeup the kit. I wasn’t super happy with that and persisted. I am assuming Henry needs to build the kit as well but is willing to do just one. Perhaps that’s why he’s the new parts dept. lead. For others, the kit was a bit over $1400.00- for full sump and floors kit. It includes Waterline built solid glass floor stringers. Penske foam, fiberglass cloth. Teak & Holly floor. Still waiting and will update if and when it arrives.
  11. Herreshoff

    J24 sump...epoxy or polyester resin filler?

    This is a little frustrating, there must be a bunch of boats out there that all have different versions of the vermiculite repair. I can see why theres been so many different approaches. The class didn’t do a great job providing a detailed, consistent repair. Squalamax, I don’t see how filling forward section buries any keel bolt. It seems the pouring method was the class approved method for quite a while. the early soggy sole repair is something else. Soggy sole repair page 18 - http://j24archives.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Vol.-16-April-1986.pdf Retrofitting vermiculite early boats page 15 - http://j24archives.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Vol.-19-Fall-1987.pdf Retrofitting vermiculite early boats page 15 - http://j24archives.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Vol.-21-Fall-1988.pdf The Mushy Vermiculite problem page 15 - http://j24archives.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Vol.-23-Fall-1989.pdf This reference is good but they lay the foam vertically, so just another take - replacing rotted floors page 119 http://dl.kashti.ir/ENBOOKS/FBIR.pdf This is Waterlines instructions for their kit. vermiculite removal.doc
  12. Herreshoff

    J24 sump...epoxy or polyester resin filler?

    I didn’t think there would be so much to consider with getting rid of vermiculite and maybe overthinking but it seems others have put some thought into it too. There seem to be a couple of schools of thought on this and while the fiber mixed with epoxy only “pouring” method appears to work and hold up nicely per photos above. Waterline instructions and direction from our local measurer advise using the Penske board / cloth “brick laying” method referenced and pictured in Dogfish4255 posts above. I am not sure if this is a structural or weight concern, or both. I understand that the Penske board method will be a bit lighter opposed to just filling the sump with resin and fiber but considering the somewhat small size of the sump I don’t see the weight difference being much between the two methods. I guess the class has decided replacing vermiculite / resin mix with straight resin and fiber will yield significantly heavier result than using board, cloth and resin sandwich? Or are they more simply concerned with the difference in weight between the original verm install and new epoxy fill regardless of method? Are we talking a lot of weight? It sounds like the standard back in the day was to “pour” the mix straight away no foam board. Now they want you to use the foam and cloth. It’s not lead shot type weight difference, what are are we talking a couple pounds? Either way, short of adding gravel or shot, wouldn’t either method be lighter then the original? Perhaps I’m underestimating the weight of straight epoxy compared to verm mixed with epoxy. I’m not sure if the 80 lbs. I’ve heard referenced as the original vermiculite weight includes the bunch they put all throughout under the floor. Anyways, If loss of weight is enough to bring the boat under minimum and cause one to be adding corrector weights doesn’t seem right. It seems like the old verm boats doing the job now get screwed a bit. Not sure why you can’t put back exactly the weight you took out and instead they make you put it in the ends of the boat. Oh well I guess. The new solid glass floor stringers are additional weight so perhaps that’s part of the consideration. Weight differences aside, while the straight pour method appears okay, class and builder are directing to use the bricklaying method so that’s how we’ll go. At the end of day, layers of epoxy resin, Penske foam, and cloth tabbed to the walls of sump seem to be more structurally significant when compared to a pour of resin and strands. Looking for two things with this verm job, losing soaked verm extra / inconsistent weight and stiffening the boat a bit. Interesting to see the changes in ideas over time.
  13. Herreshoff

    J24 sump...epoxy or polyester resin filler?

    Thank you, That sump looks really good. I would be very happy with that installation. I am wondering why you didn’t fill the front end section of the sump. Small Bilge? Did you just use plywood for floor stringers and the floorboard? I agree the Waterline kit isn’t cheap. I have considered different routes in doing this. The time savings and efficiency of having premade floors and having record that the kit was used is valuable to me. The teak and holly will just look nice. If I avoided the kit, I figured the materials to create solid glass floorboards and rebuild the sump proper probably more like $400 - $500 give or take. Then the time spent custom building the floors etc... It would be nice to get away spending $50 on this. As the boat is worth it to me I don’t feel bad spending some dough on the floors as I’ve heard good things. I will post photos of the kit when it arrives for others (I know there’s still a few, maybe) going down this road.
  14. Herreshoff

    J24 sump...epoxy or polyester resin filler?

    Waterline got back to me. The original quote was for just aft section of sump. Once I let them know It’s the entire sump they had to Redo the quote. The price for the kit for the entire sump is $1434.00 the additional cost is for more Penske foam and additional section of flooring Seems a little weird. Oh well need the kit. Pulled the trigger today. Will share on how it goes.
  15. Herreshoff

    J24 sump...epoxy or polyester resin filler?

    Getting ready to do verm job with the Waterline kit. The kit doesn’t come with resin. Looking at ordering some but there’s a lot to choose from out there. Someone please advise, it sounds like epoxy resin be the preferred type of resin for this project? Any suggestions for type, brand, source appreciated. Originally, I expected to be “pouring” large amounts of resin to fill the sump. After reading above posts and waterline instructions I realize it will be more brick laying in a resin putty. Using the method referenced above with Penske foam, same as Waterlines instructions, what might be a reasonable estimate of how much resin to order?
  16. Herreshoff

    Waterline Systems

    Yeah It seems they are trying. Got a email from Henry at Waterline first thing this morning with the vermiculite kit instruction sheet that includes a list of recommended materials and tools. In addition it lists everything included in the kit. Waterline supply: 9 sq. ft. Of Pensky foam, 1708biaxial fiberglass cloth, Cabin Sole, floor supports / stringers. Another email after asking if the verm is just rear section of or entirely through sump. i don’t know, maybe they got to a point where they were only filling part of the sump with the vermiculite? Mine is full to the brim and I’m thinking itheres going to be a bunch under the floors. sorry, anyways I’m really feeling optimistic after communicating with Henry. Super responsive so far. His contact is henry@waterlinesystems.com
  17. Herreshoff

    Waterline Systems

    I was thinking yeah why not just layup some floors and tab them in. There’s not much to them. Just the thought of cutting some to fit out of some sheet or board sounded clean and solid. Funny thing Waterline sent out an email today advertising Fall savings and to contact them for parts and service needs. also something about hard to find parts etc... I snipped back in a reply email that I still need the vermiculite kit and if any chance, ever? What do you know, I got a response from Henry Pendleton. Henry now heads up the parts department at Waterline and he says they can indeed provide me with the kit for $1063.00- and if I had any questions and / or would I like to place an order. I’ve got an email back to him asking what that price includes. I’m guessing the glass stringers and teak and holly flooring. Doubt resin etc.. Ive heard others mention that they’ll break it up and sell you what you need. I don’t know. An old j24 that gets raced only probably doesnt need teak and holly but it sure does look nice. Ill see what the $1000 bucks includes but I’m really feeling like it might just be worth it to me. Anyways, thankful that Waterline seems to be getting things sorted now.
  18. Herreshoff

    Waterline Systems

    I don’t know what’s going on over there. It was frustrating having Randy say they offer the kit, directing me to Gordon and then have Gordon send me away. The fiberglass floors just seem to be the proper method of repair following vermiculite removal. I’m considering going with marine plywood epoxied instead but only because can’t get the kit. It appears plywood is okay in lieu of sold glass http://j24forum.org/usa/faqs/verm_repair.htm Question for those who have done these, If Waterline continues to be a no go, would it be reasonable going with G9 or G10 glass epoxy sheet for the floors instead of plywood? *Edit that-never mind, I just checked pricing on glass epoxy sheets and seems it gets pricey.
  19. Herreshoff

    Cleaning Sails

    I’ve heard Tidy Bowl works well.
  20. Herreshoff

    Waterline Systems

    So trying again to source the j24 vermiculite sump / floor kit through Waterline. Would really like to get the verm out of the old girl after all these years. Mostly just want the fiberglass floor stringers from Waterline, Could live without their teak & holly but their stringers are supposed to be sweet. I’ve seen so many pics of j24s with plywood floor stringers just run into the sump resin. It seems like a lot of pics of rotted plywood. Not what I want. Gordon at Waterline told me they’d have to make up the floor stringers and it’d need to be an order for like 3 boats or he’d need to have a few lined up at one time to be worth his time. Kind of a pain. Not feeling the love that’s for sure. Anyone have an old Waterline vermiculite replacement kit consider selling?
  21. Herreshoff

    Waterline Systems

    About six weeks ago I left a message with Waterline for parts info / pricing inquiry for j24 Parts that weren’t showing on the website. Got a voicemail from Gordon and never was able to contact him. I did reach Randy Borges and he told me they do still offer the kit I was looking for and to send him an email and he’d get the info and pricing for me. Emailed Randy with no response. Tried the website email link and still nothing. Left a final voicemail politely explaining that I wasn’t having much luck with getting ordering info and asking they contact me but nothing. It’s a bummer because I’d really like to get their parts but left wondering like you. It’s confusing because they do answer the phone and seem to be open for business but something is not connecting. I’m guessing it’s related to recent business changes.