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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

SMBReno

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About SMBReno

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    Anarchist

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  • Location
    Reno, NV
  • Interests
    Shorthanded sailing.
  1. LiFePO4 Battery Bank

    An update for anyone interested in S. Honey's approach to setting up a LFP bank using the HousePower BMS. First, I adopted his his MOSFET-resistor circuit to replace the TYCO EV200 with a lower drain Blue Seas 7113 Battery Disconnect. Soldering this is a bit tricky, so pm me if you need details. This worked perfectly, disconnecting upon alarm and reconnecting upon BMS reset. Very low current drain c/w the Tyco. Second, Honey added thermal disconnect fuses on each battery cell in series with the alternator regulator power line, so the alternator is shut down in case of battery overheating. An alternative is to wire thermal fuses inline with the cell loop to the BMS, as interrupting this circuit also creates an alarm condition thus shutting down alternator via the HVC relay. Finally, you can test the various functions and relays by replacing the Battery +/- input with a dedicated 12V power supply, and recreating low and high voltage conditions. Leave the cell loop intact for these tests. I also use the Junsi Cell Log 8S's..(8S does data logging 8M does not) I even have one on my own bank. I use the Junsi for visual cell monitoring use & I have about 4 or 5 of them around the shop. For the money they are great little devices, and by little I mean little, as in you'll need glasses to read it. They are however tough to keep calibrated and they do tend to have some calibration drift over time. The log view software is also a real PITA but it does work.. I re-calibrate mine about 3-4 times a year and each time I do it I find it has again drifted away from calibration. I also invested in the JST terminals and molded plugs to make up my own harnesses, to avoid butt splicing the flimsy harness that comes with them. Great tool at a great price but I would personally not rely on one for my banks BMS. It is a great ad on to a BMS thought for visual or data logged cell voltage tracking. Do be sure to calibrate it though before use. Where do you obtain the JST Terminals and plugs, Main Sail?
  2. Blocking Diodes?

    Look at Victron Energy MPPT controllers. Cheaper than Genasun (Victron Energy MPPT 75/10 Solar Charge Controller costs $85) and is programmable, while the Genasun is not. I've had both. Victron Energy tech support is excellent as is Genasun, although the Genasun has a lower VOC rating (34 vs 75 V) which some panels might surpass under really ideal conditions. PKYS sells Victron Energy. At $85 a piece, makes a lot of sense to just use one controller/panel.
  3. Blocking Diodes?

    I'd ask the solar charge regulator manufacturer - they're the experts. Or we could just BS you....
  4. AIS: Class A or Class B?

    Singlehanding an Open 50. Big Balls in Cow Town!
  5. LiFePO4 Battery Bank

    Here's a cheap battery monitor with a low voltage alarm I stumbled across: http://www.sailorssolutions.com/?page=ProductDetails&Item=VM01
  6. LiFePO4 Battery Bank

    No problem. You won't be able to access individual cells in this sealed battery. The battery itself states it is LiFePO4 so that low voltage is a $300 potential problem. Most of the articles you read will deal with individual cells of 3.2VDC joined in series (4S= 12VDC, 8S=24VDC etc.) where the terminals are accessible. At best, you need a low voltage alarm and hope that the Genasun MPPT controller takes care of the upper voltages. A tiller pilot pulls a lot of current, so not surprising that you discharged to this level. The House Power BMS main board won't be of any use to you. You need a battery meter/alert system of some type (e.g., Victron https://www.victronenergy.com/battery-monitors/bmv-700) or LinkPro, or Blue Sea Systems to allow you to monitor your voltage and current use and alert you to low or high V states. I suppose the cheapest would be a simple digital voltmeter, but that won't warn you. No idea of your vessel, power, type of sailing, etc. so tough to suggest any solution. Start by calculating an Ahr budget by adding up all your energy requirements, and work from there. It doesn't sound like this battery is sized for your needs, and the solar you have doesn't charge rapidly enough to accommodate your ongoing energy use. Deep cycle or AGM may be a better choice, as you can just leave it charging on your solar controller when not sailing. Horses for courses, as they say.
  7. LiFePO4 Battery Bank

    Too True! The Calb 180Ah 3.2 VDC bare cells are currently about $243 ea plus shipping, which will be expensive unless you pick them up locally in So Cal. Parts for the case ran me about $250 (aluminum plate and extrusions, G10 for bottom support, fasteners, 316SS fasteners and threaded rod, handles if you wish, acrylic sheet for cover), and then you need to build a BMS which includes at a minimum a box to house the bits, two or three high amp relays, lights, warning buzzer, reset switch, a high amp disconnect, cell monitors, wiring etc. and the BMS circuit board. Figure a minimum of $250 probably more like $350. Then as Main Sail has so appropriately stated, spend about 6 months reading and drawing schematics until you understand how to fit it all together. He judges this project as an 11 out of 1-10 for diy skill. I would agree. Then, unless you have a programmable alternator regulator you also have to add a new one, and if you use them, new shore power charger, and new solar regulator for Li. So I'm going to say I have a minimum of $2,000 in costs at this point not counting the dedicated 12V power supply I purchased to top balance. As have others, I can't emphasize enough that LiFePO4 is a system not a battery. You just can't spend hours balancing the cells and assembling the pack and expect to just replace your vessel's existing wet cell battery. It would be foolish if not dangerous. Unless you are like me and have to really understand how the system works in order to use it or service it, I'd use one of the plug and play systems. Can't recommend Maine Sail's three part series enough as a starting point. Where do I find info on this? http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/lifepo4_on_boats
  8. LiFePO4 Battery Bank

    Sorry, can't edit my response above for some reason. Mean partial State of Charge (SOC) NOT partial social like a surly singlehander. Bottom line-put in a BMS.
  9. LiFePO4 Battery Bank

    My approach would depend upon the use. If day sailing only and not charging when away from boat (LFP lasts longer if you keep at partial social) you might get away with it but too deep a discharge could destroy your battery. If offshore and busy Definitely need one for safety. Most marine users use the House Power bms and cell sensors. See Maine Sails series or some of the other posts mentioned in this thread.
  10. LiFePO4 Battery Bank

    Another useful link, this time from a German electrical engineer/cruiser who discusses in great detail his needs and designs of a LiFePO4 system. Lots of useful info here for the non-EE! http://www.entropypool.de/engineering/
  11. LiFePO4 Battery Bank

    Also, if you read Stan Honey's article referenced above, and decide to go with a 4S cell for a battery monitor, be aware that Clean Power no longer offers them. Too bad, because it would reduce the sensitive electronic bits on top of an otherwise conventional battery.
  12. LiFePO4 Battery Bank

    Here's another good resource from Stan Honey: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://honeynav.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/LFP-battery-Stan-Honey-notes.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwia_8vPpL_OAhVNySYKHRtTCjwQFggkMAM&usg=AFQjCNFt6LpuoSrTas2TAiUrFCmYicU0GA&sig2=3mhyE-kxTQ2kAR8KHs3pqg
  13. LiFePO4 Battery Bank

    I reviewed the Calb manual. They don't explicitly address the end plate issue. Perhaps including end (and side) plates of AL or G10 inside the ss straps would be a simple solution. I wanted the flexibility of isolating individual cells on shore for testing and replacement if necessary. Plus if honest, I enjoy fabrication.
  14. LiFePO4 Battery Bank

    Too True! The Calb 180Ah 3.2 VDC bare cells are currently about $243 ea plus shipping, which will be expensive unless you pick them up locally in So Cal. Parts for the case ran me about $250 (aluminum plate and extrusions, G10 for bottom support, fasteners, 316SS fasteners and threaded rod, handles if you wish, acrylic sheet for cover), and then you need to build a BMS which includes at a minimum a box to house the bits, two or three high amp relays, lights, warning buzzer, reset switch, a high amp disconnect, cell monitors, wiring etc. and the BMS circuit board. Figure a minimum of $250 probably more like $350. Then as Main Sail has so appropriately stated, spend about 6 months reading and drawing schematics until you understand how to fit it all together. He judges this project as an 11 out of 1-10 for diy skill. I would agree. Then, unless you have a programmable alternator regulator you also have to add a new one, and if you use them, new shore power charger, and new solar regulator for Li. So I'm going to say I have a minimum of $2,000 in costs at this point not counting the dedicated 12V power supply I purchased to top balance. As have others, I can't emphasize enough that LiFePO4 is a system not a battery. You just can't spend hours balancing the cells and assembling the pack and expect to just replace your vessel's existing wet cell battery. It would be foolish if not dangerous. Unless you are like me and have to really understand how the system works in order to use it or service it, I'd use one of the plug and play systems. Can't recommend Maine Sail's three part series enough as a starting point.
  15. LiFePO4 Battery Bank

    Hi Greg. Probably more helpful if I give you dimensions, as although our boats are "I-dentical" as the prosecutor in My Cousin Vinny stated, my electrical system has been modified significantly at Betts. Assuming you built an enclosure similar to mine, you would need to house a battery pack of about 13" L x 13" H x 9 1/2" W. This includes about 1" clearance to lift or slide battery out. I haven't picked a final location, but thinking about several that can be made secure and allow short wire runs.