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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

P Flados

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  1. The top funded teams probably like the "no big surprises" part of the package. The less funded teams are probably thinking something like "all our deign team needs to focus on is the foils - perhaps we can get lucky" They all signed up for it. Plenty of money is going to get spent. Much is going to be learned about fast foiling. Boats will reach higher boat speed to wind speed ratios than anything we have seen before. If this was anywhere else, I would say, just it back and enjoy the show. But wait, this is SA. Just keep on with the same drivel....
  2. "All in all, way too much fun for someone my age" Sounds great Hope like heck that the post you make after the event will be along the lines of "too much fun" as compared to what a lot of teams were surely muttering last time around.
  3. Doug, Steve talks about pulling the windward board full up. Post 37# shows two guys generating enough RM to require plenty of lateral force & it looks to be all or almost all coming from the foil that is down. Steve, SNAKEfOIL. Really. Snakefoil makes all kinds of sense, but then you had to go one step further. I am certain you realize the comments your "almost all caps" choice is just begging for. Have fun with that. On the tech side, I really hope it pans out. On the other hand, consider this: Given the moment arm, you may be at the top of the heap for foil bending loads vs boat weight. What if it works too good? Just think of how much could be spent on carbon trying to copy this concept over to other boats. And that leads to thinking about that sickening/horrible sound of snapping carbon just waiting for any "not quite enough carbon" attempts.
  4. Agree with the line over the hull. If you do not have a righting line, consider the main sheet in a pinch. Disconnect the main sheet assembly from the sail (hopefully not too much effort) and toss the sheet over the hull just forward of a side stay. The main sheet is a usually plenty long and a nice big fat line that is easy to grip.
  5. Disclaimer: I only wish I had an A Class boat From my viewpoint: Insert from above has real value to a large number of sailors. Insert from below may have real value to a select few (mostly the quick upgrade crowd). Non compliant boats with this aspect should be encouraged as "experiments" and/or reduced cost/time routes to updating old boats. Is it really hard to envision any harm from promoting "insert from below" boats where:It is helpful in trying out something new that might be easier It is helpful in trying out something new that might be faster It is helpful in letting someone quickly have the lowest cost path to more fun and/or be competitive in non important racing (not nationals or worlds) Those doing it know that it is only a shortcut that would eventually need fixing beforeGoing into production Going for any race title that matters Other aspects of rule 8 are more arbitrary at this point. With fast foiling turning up all kinds of new shapes, letting people play games with different shapes would seem to be more in the spirit of a development class. On the other hand if the fastest shape turns out to be non rule 8 compliant and much more expensive (require more high tech build), there would be reason to hesitate. My take on this is that it would be best to promote experimentation as a first step. If a shape looks promising, the rules would only be opened up if the majority felt it was worth the extra cost (I would tend to vote against extra cost - this could force developers to try to figure out how to get the benefit without the extra bucks). Actually the class could consider replacing the dimensional aspects of Rule 8 with new words that simply disallow the higher cost foil build methods. The above would allow "insert from below" where it does not affect production boats and it would allow any shape that does not add a lot of cost. Even if you do not change any rules any time soon, getting a little more consensus on a long term objective would influence those making new boats. For new boats, the biggest push from the sailors to the makers at the point should probably be a very loud "we want dagger cases that allow easy foil changes with no significant case modification regardless of new developments".
  6. They have made the jibe they needed to keep a good wind angle. Pretty much straight shop from the current position. Looking at the wind forecast looks like no reason for speed to drop much from the current 27 kts. I wager closer to 4 days even.
  7. Careful, just how many "trimaran owners " (in the context of the Pulse) are really fighting. The Pulse had issues with the plan for folding and we have not seen how this has been resolved. Until a video or first hand testimonial are provided, it would seem fair to poke a little at this feature. Other postings (of "trimaran owners") seem more of "oh please - please show me a video" based on hoping that the boat will be a good performing option worth considering.
  8. I took a look at the record Distance NM___________2215 Date_________________11/05/15 Yacht_________________Geronimo Elapsed Time__________4d 19h 31m 37s Average Speed_________19.17 I think LC2 has put in more time above 30 kts than they did under 15 kts. Lots of time between 25 kts and 30 kts. I am not sure how much the need to circle down will cost. Wind looks good as far as I can tell. Any bets at this point.
  9. Destruction derby version foils with knife sharp leading edges would probably warrant a different mindset for the crew - If you capsize you need to try to fall on top of the sails to avoid floating out in open water with other boats slicing by.
  10. Phil provides an excellent discussion above. Most main foils need to provide a near fixed amount of lift over the widest possible range of speeds, Flaps greatly improve performance in this area. This is actually one of the few good cross-overs from airplane wing technology. All standard large aircraft use flaps for lift. The "best" performing wings are quite complex. They go from a single element low camber wing at cruise to an increased cord, 3 element and very high camber wing to get the same lift at drastically reduced speeds. For a foiler without wands (or other active control equivalent), flaps will allow lower take offs combined with less drag at higher speeds. The flap drive is the biggest area that is not fully figured out yet (I envision a "speedometer" cable). From the top of the foil to the crew, the manual flap controls for this application should be easy enough with multiple acceptable choices available. I do expect experiments with a manual flap on a L foil or an Uptip foil for the function described above. The payoff is just too big to ignore.
  11. They seem to have timed it pretty good. Currently just over 31 kts on last two positions Also wind looks good.
  12. ^ No jab at BL at all. A well sorted BL should be very impressive. The focus of that sentence was more of a brag on the Russell side. ^^ There are lots of potential choices for foil arrangement. I really do not think that any "just two foils" solution would work well for proa full foiling. Three total with 2 in the water sounds faster. Four total foils with three in the water would probably be the least effort way to assure reasonable function on the first try. The problem (for now) is cost. Just consider the amount of expensive technology (design, prototype testing & construction) that has been required for any of the better foiling cats we have seen. Choosing a foiling concept that could transfer from a tri to a proa and then starting with the tri is probably not a bad choice. However, this just seems like a long path to get to the desired destination.
  13. Russell, Thanks for believable facts on the recent performance. Water ballast plus crew RM has plenty of speed potential. I do not think any boat similar to yours has been seriously designed and optimized for distance racing. I would consider more beam to get more RM from a single exposed crew + water ballast. This combined with serious reefing provisions could limit structural loads. It would need crew discipline (to understand the limits on how much total RM generating weight is allowed). There is no reason at all that your approach should not be hard to beat going up against comparable cats & tris. Rob, Thanks for not poking too hard. Until we start seeing good performing Harrys out there in comparable settings, I really like having Jzerro or another proa show up "traditional boats". All such examples are good press for all proa fans. Everyone else, Less bickering & more civil discussion is also good for all proa fans. Most know what I will call the "key talking points" for both sides. The less these are repeated and/or emphasized, the less opportunity for backlash. Why cant we just brag on innovation and/or good on the water performance without jabs. I am a real proa fan. I made one attempt, and then gave up on the proa and did a small tri test platform build. I need to decide on my next "small test platform" sailboat. As I would like to figure out a cheap Joe average buildable single handed foiling boat, I am leaning toward a sliding beam tri, However, I also keep circling back given that I know a proa would be better if I could make it work.
  14. 6/22/15 @ 18:00 PST they got into the teens and pretty much stayed in the teens until 6/23/15 @ 07:00 PST when they pushed into the low 20s. Slowly increased until 6/23/15 @ 10:00 PST they got up to 27 kts. The peak I saw was 28.4 at 11:00 PST. The speed slowly dropped going back into the teens at 14:00 and then at 16:00 they made it back into the low 20s. The winds for the period above were probably mostly in the high teens. The have probably seen a little bit in the low to mid 20s. The wind was pretty close to 90° from boat course at the start of the above and swinging around to say 110° to boat course.
  15. They are off (slow start, but not much wind). Tracker: http://my.yb.tl/Hydropterehawaii